John Changs 1st Westerner student

[Matt]

Edited December 2, 2008 by Matt

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Can Chunyi lin light fires with chi, levitate, shock people? If so that is awesome i just thought he was ahealer of laying of hands or from a distance!!

[joeblast]

joey,

Sorry bud, my bullshit meter went off the chart and I had to call you on it. I'll spare the forum the bullet point analysis my point is you repeat the same shit over and over, yet wont go anywhere that your verifiable proof might be found....so who looks like the chucklehead here?

[voidisyinyang]

Well as Yan Xin states these abilities are based on intentions and good works. Chunyi Lin has levitated when in deep meditation in the mountains -- he said he spiraled up 9 feet. He's Shaolin Buddhist Master Yao teacher would light paper balls on fire just using his eyes so I'm sure that Master Chunyi Lin could do the same, as when he looks at my kidneys they burn up with bliss -- the same with the center of my brain.

 

Mainly he does long distance healing but he said when he gets mad light bulbs explode in his house.

Edited May 8, 2008 by drew hempel

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Thanks Drew, is the material that Chunyi Lin teachers the same that he learnt from his teacher or did he create his own system from all previous teachers?

 

Does everyone learn the same thing from him level 1,2 springforest manuals and moon, sun, rainbow meditations?

 

 

Thanks very interested in what he teachers out to all students or does he have specific things for certain people?

 

regards

WYG

[shidoin]

LETS START OVER, SHALL WE?

 

Cool! Nice video Shidoin! Im a big John Chang fan. He seems like a nice guy, belongs to a very powerful lineage, and you can tell he wants to teach, and help people who are sincere.

 

I read that the power of the Mopai lineage is very individualistic and potent in relation to other lineages.

 

Have you read Kosta's books?

 

Nice to have you on the forum.

 

Peace,

 

Matt

 

Hey Matt, thanks for the nice change of direction! I have read the books and many others that teach Tummo meditation! Have you read the clear light of bliss? if you can reach the inner fire it is very powerful- almost scary. I can't light things on fire or move things with my mind. I just practice daily and see what comes from it. I would love to meet John Chang, But I'll respect his wishes and not seek him out. He claims there are 10 others in China at his level.. does anyone have the names of these people? I tried about 3 years ago to contact Kostas (the authur) But no reply so I left it a that. I try not to let other peoples opinions get in the way of my practice. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and has a right to be skeptical.

 

for now

 

......Shidoin

[sunshine]

 

"Acupuncture, for example, has been proven to work (clinical trials have been done and scientific papers have been published) but we have no clue how."

 

Actually there's some evidence that it could be placebo. But the results are thusfar inconclusive.

 

 

If I know something is that above statement unfortunately tends to be reflected in the public but is far from the truth. Only recently I have been to the big congress on TCM in Germany and had the chance to talk to some people doing studies (MDs I talked to! Well designed studies!!!)... the results are far from vague. A lot just does not get published because it threatens the establishment... and a lot tends to stay in small circles and never reaches the public... Regarding the Placebo: animals respond well to acupuncture (AND homeopathy). It is a fascinating discussion about animals being subject to placebo as well that developed out of it... Regarding your sciatica: Acupuncture can be done on many different levels! I have seen acupuncture done properly with instant results which others did not manage to achieve in 10 and more treatments... For pain consult a Dr. Tan "Balance Method" (San Diego) trained practitioner... only seldom one treatment can last a long time... (sometimes it does though)... several treatments usually are needed. If the trouble is on a structural level acupuncture is a pretty good way of helping to deal with the problem but might be needed similar to pain medication... constantly or periodically.

 

To say acupuncture is placebo is, well...

 

 

Harry

Edited May 8, 2008 by sunshine

[sheng zhen]

To say acupuncture is placebo is, well...

...very uninformed(and a little... well...).

 

I used to work at a medicine company called Pharmacia(now Pfizer), they have a lot of urology medicine and actually used several studies of acupunture in their marketing. That is scientific studies prooving acupunture as effective in treating urologic diseases.

 

Later I have seen hundreds of studies prooving the effect acupunture. And there is probably thousands that I havent seen, haha. And only a few that prooves it is placebo. But the few that prooves it is placebo is blown up in the media because they reflect the common beliefsystem that anything that cant be explained by molecular interactions is bogus.

[Buddy]

"my point is you repeat the same shit over and over, yet wont go anywhere that your verifiable proof might be found....so who looks like the chucklehead here?"

 

Well that would be you. I haven't offered any unverifiable claims but feel free to act like a yappy dog. I repeat it because the truth is a justifiable defense. You challenge my point I'm going to repeat the truth. As I said feel free to ignore my posts. You've certainly not added anything to this conversation.

 

Re: acupuncture, sorry there are studies were placebo needles reproduce real needles affect. Again, that said, even with negative experience I'm inclined to give it credence.

[sunshine]

Re: acupuncture, sorry there are studies were placebo needles reproduce real needles affect. Again, that said, even with negative experience I'm inclined to give it credence.

 

The trouble is there is no differentiation done quite often. Even just touching a point produces an effect in the body... this fact does not take anything away from the power of acupuncture to produce results It just proves other means can do as well

 

Harry

[sheng zhen]

Re: acupuncture, sorry there are studies were placebo needles reproduce real needles affect. Again, that said, even with negative experience I'm inclined to give it credence.

There has been a study showing that placebo-acupuncture actually works BETTER than placebo-pills, hahaha. Thats how good acupuncture is!

 

Also, most studies on acupuncture where they put needles outside of acupunturepoints measure the pain-relief effect. That is endorphine release. So if you have a headache you can stick a needle anywhere on your body and the pain fades. It say nothing about acupuncture as a placebo-method. Just that a needleing releases endorphins that works as pain relief.

 

The other thing is that in scientific studies they need to reproduce the same study. They dont take individual treatment into account and use a finished set of points, like in the pailrelief study mentioned above. At least the studies that disproove of acupuncture do it that way. Any good acupuncturist know that every individual has to be treated differently.

[agharta]

Anybody who has studied martial arts for long enough knows that the acupuncture/acupressure points are quite real. Whack somebody in the Stomach meridian point called Renying on the throat, which is over the carotid sinus. They'll go down like a sack of bricks. These points and their martial and healing effects have been known for thousands of years in Asia/India/etc. I really wonder about the martial competence of someone who has never been taught any of that. They teach the carotid sinus strike in many basic law-enforcement martial training classes. I've taught it to children as young as 9.

 

Buddy, methinks you are more noise than knowledge. But that's OK...this is the internet, so you're right at home.

Edited May 8, 2008 by agharta

[Matt]

Edited December 2, 2008 by Matt

[gendao]

Well as Yan Xin states these abilities are based on intentions and good works. Chunyi Lin has levitated when in deep meditation in the mountains -- he said he spiraled up 9 feet. He's Shaolin Buddhist Master Yao teacher would light paper balls on fire just using his eyes so I'm sure that Master Chunyi Lin could do the same, as when he looks at my kidneys they burn up with bliss -- the same with the center of my brain.

 

Mainly he does long distance healing but he said when he gets mad light bulbs explode in his house.

VIDEO! WE NEED VIDEO!!!!

Regarding the Placebo: animals respond well to acupuncture (AND homeopathy). It is a fascinating discussion about animals being subject to placebo as well that developed out of it...

How do they get the animals to sit still?

 

And I think Kostas got burnt out and can't really practice neigong anymore. I believe the Mo Pai system reportedly can be a little forceful and risky.

[shidoin]

I started Clear Light of Bliss, but had little trouble understanding some of the terminology. I also tend to shy away from "visualization" type meditations. My main focus is trying to reach true stillness ( no - mind).

 

I have heard kostas name brought up several times over the last couple of years and found what appears to be a recent website of his. He doesnt seem interested in pursuing neikung or teaching anyone at all.

 

There are some other teachers out there though. You just have to look for a little while.

 

Peace,

 

The tems they use are a bit strange to me to. What is the Short-AH? But if you visualize the red drop in the Dantian it will work. Try to use a candle flame to picture it in that point when you have it in your head close your eyes and picture it getting larger and running up the front and down the spine making a loop. The final stage is to make you whole body blaze. it Worked for me give it a try. I can reach (no-mind) in about 30 min. But it does nothing for the dantian, (at least not for me) on a side note. Reverse Breathing helps pack the Dantian.. I did get a cold after a few days of practice but now it's gone. Also sinck your Chi by droping your weight and letting go. I can feel my hands pound with Chi when I get mad and the Veins seem to get larger. It used to make my hear race but now just seems to go from the chest up the arms and out through the hands.. it is a very powerful feeling.. The Skeptics will say it's just adrenalin and Blood flow

[Taoist81]

Re: acupuncture, sorry there are studies were placebo needles reproduce real needles affect. Again, that said, even with negative experience I'm inclined to give it credence.

 

Buddy,

 

There have as you are probably referring to been a couple of studies that showed no significant difference between randomly placed (at non-traditional points) needles and traditional acupoints, though most do show a difference. On the other hand, the use of sham needles (that do not pierce the skin) as placebo have consistently shown significant difference. It really depends on what is being treated. Some ailments respond better to acupuncture than others, just as some people and species (ex. dogs & horses more than cats) respond better than others. The same thing happens with pharmaceutical medicines between races and sexes. Unfortunately the studies done thus far (including the ones that show positive results) have been far less than perfect because of the....intricacies of TCM (diagnosis, the number of points with multiple functions etc).

 

That said, sciatica, while personal experience shows it to be difficult to treat, usually has some benefit from acupuncture. Did you only go once or many times? One of the difficult things to deal with as an acupuncturist is having patients who have had a problem for years, sought western medicine to no avail then after receiving little or no response on their first visit declare "acupuncture doesn't work". Especially when one has seen the effects in similar cases, just over a many treatments rather than one. One prof at school often suggests patients allow us as much time to cure a problem as they have spent suffering from it (of course, it never takes very long at all to see huge changes). Did you get relief otherwise? If so, if you don't mind sharing, how?

 

How do they get the animals to sit still?

 

Animals (dogs for sure from personal experience, and horses from what a person with some experience with them claimed) tend to be great patients. They just lay there very still on their own. Supposedly horses LOVE it, they just stand still and sort of get a high look (whatever a stoned horse looks like). Getting some adult human patients to be still can be a challenge on the other hand : ) Human kids can be tough too, but we usually do more tui na than needles for younger kids.

[DentyDao]

edit

Edited July 11, 2015 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

 

As to why I personally have not provided information publicly, why should I? I am a member here, I don't owe you or anyone else anything just because I'm David's student. I'm not actively recruiting students or soliciting anything, asking me for information should be a private matter since I am here as a private person.

 

 

Sean, the first time I questioned yr intent on this forum you wrote that obviously you were here to advance D S V and recruit students ... how has that changed?

 

I have written to you many times about yr conduct on this site; from the denigrating of other schools to basic rudeness and blatant attempts at soliciting support for yr teacher.

 

I can say with gratitude that you have developed much better manners in yr discourse - but to attempt an over-haul of yr previously stated purpose here I find questionable at best.

 

What has changed? Do you no longer hold with his teachings?

 

Stay well and happy bro- you are a wonder to watch here ! Yr lack of owning-up to any real salesmanship is somewhat indearing if fatuous...

 

namaste- PDG

[gendao]

Ironically, this is one reason why siddhis are important. Because ultimately, that is the true litmus test (relatively speaking).

 

Everything else here is just circumstantial evidence and subject to scrutiny and doubt. Rarely does 2nd-hand evidence ever convert people - but just polarize them into the believers and non-believers that they already were, lol.

 

Whereas, one live siddhi can open a thousand minds and shut a thousand mouths up. Which is why I was hoping some of us could demo some live ones to Buddy.

------------

Anyhow, ultimately this drama isn't about DSV or Mo Pai. If anyone gets overemotional about a certain issue over and over - that means it's a reflection of a deeper one inside them. I myself used to have a lot of cynical doubt too. And I traced it back to some past lives and worked on clearing it out. And, the more emotional baggage you clear out, the more neutrally you will then react to future events.

 

Or if we find ourselves continually in conflict with the same personality types, we probably also drew that to us to help resolve a deeper inner conflict there. Remember, by quantum theory we choose each particle of our reality by selecting 1 possibility out of the probability wave...

 

Again, nothing wrong with healthy reactions (whether it's skepticism or defensiveness). Reactions are normal. But overreactions signal an internal issue that mirrors the external trigger.

------------

OTOH, I sometimes also wonder if the conflict between opposing camps actually adds rigor to the dialogue? Because if only "believers" responded with, "yea, cool," the 1-sided discussion might possibly be far less interesting and informative.

Edited May 8, 2008 by vortex

[DentyDao]

edit

Edited July 11, 2015 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

Denty you are a hoot! I challanged yr martial abilities -which is, I guess, is indeed just a threat of violence to your mind since you have no credibility there... or much of anywhere that I have read from you ('cept for a few of yr regurgitated ideas gleened from yr readings) - etc...

 

I respect yr erudition, reading books is a very valuable tool... and perhaps I even accept yr intent. But yr lack of sense is just appalling. If I am a coward for throwing yr own BS back at you and expressing my anger at yr continued lies and distortions, then I guess that is a good thing too.

 

Yr name calling on this site has become the standard for idiotic prattle -please do continue, as it is most amusing... I can only hope that few are fooled here, even as you claim new adherants to yr fold.

 

I still think you are a liar & a fool to say that you are not a shill here with little other true reason to fish this pond on behalf of yr leash holders...

 

still... yr info holds some water on a few levels, so what the hey hey hey...Its a lot like darts with a blind guy tho- what hits may be just blind-luck...

 

My challange does still stand tho- Yr supposed abilities VS mine any time - I promise to "hold " my punches as I would for any challanger -that is unproved in ability or sense enough not to provoke those who have proven abilities to use their qi ...I would rather help sooth and heal rather than administer reality checks for fools, but you have provoked me and do continue to do so when called on yr lies and distortions. If that is showing a lack of courage for you -(I couldn't care much less) - but what you think of as being cowardess seems as far afield from reality as anything else you've expressed here.

 

So no - I believe little of what you say. That is just because you have proven yr self to be false all tooo often.-

see ya round cyber-space- PDG

[Buddy]

Well I'll keep this short as most of it has veered away from the original topic. As to acupuncture, I bow to anyone with greater knowledge than I. I have my experiences (more and much more serious than the one I mentioned) but have no knowledge of its practice.

 

I am amused by many of the characterizations of my comments. Everywhere from questioning my sanity, my motive, my marriage ( ) but this latest is the funniest of all. That some nameless internet moniker hiding behind a screen name dares question my martial ability while seriously suggesting that point strikes are viable in the heat of full combat is absurdity to the greatest degree. Methinks you should come see me and inquire about my skill in person, keyboard boy.

 

Regarding the suggestion of over emotionality, two things. Go back and reread my posts. They were calm and directed. Perhaps too bold for some of you but that ball belongs in your court. Second, I wonder how many of you believe that the alleged demonstration in the video rings true. Somehow I suspect that some of you merely take issue with my bombast. Whereas I stand behind my every statement. Denty and I have agreed to disagree (on this one) but I'm happy to continue.

[Jakara]

In response to the typical attacks on science/physics - im a physicist, we don't like fascism any more than anyone else does so if you don't mind cooling it a bit with the attacks. No, we don't know everything about the universe, but we do know a hell of a lot, and atleast we are trying, its an ongoing process.

 

Science really does work, every single piece of technology we use everyday is based on it, including your computers you are posting with. There are some complex things science doesn't have answers for yet, that's because we don't yet have the right tools for the job. Its no reason to fill in the blanks with pure opinion and call it fact. Beliefs are different, some are consistent with observable reality, some aren't, but we get to choose what we believe and what we don't, so why does it matter?

 

With respect to John Chang. Ive spoken to the guy in the video posted here, he's a nice guy and as previously suggested he was happy to take on serious students when we talked. But as a good teacher once asked me, "What is it you really want to learn?". Chang doesn't teach anymore. His students sometimes do. If you are looking for enlightenment bear in mind his students are level 3 at highest, pretty far from the level 72 of enlightenment which apparently only 2 people in documented history have attained using this system. If you are looking for power or any other system to get an advantage in life - there are easier ways.

 

If you are looking for enlightenment, check out, for example, Buddha's stuff; he apparently had a very high success rate in getting others enlightened.

 

Im a buddhist, my wife is a muslim, the friends we eat lunch with every day are strict chirstians and heavy athiests. We debate the finer points of reality and learn something from it to further our understanding, but at the end we all believe what we choose to believe and take no offense from the discussion.

 

I think its pretty easy to find the proof you are looking for if it exists and you try hard enough. I believe there are real teachers out there with something real to offer. But I don't blame these real teachers from not wanting to take on western students or prove anything to them, we are hardly the pinnacles of civilised society like we believe we are, if you need proof of that then just check some of the content of these previous posts.

[Cameron]

I remember Adyashanti gave a good test to see where you stand with things. Someone at a satsang said they were sure our govenrment had something to do with 9/11. Adyashanti asked do you think they did or do you know? The guy answered he felt he knew. Adyashanti said let me rephrase the question, let's say I have a sword. If you answer incorrectly I cut your head off. I ask if you really know. The guy said he didn't really know in that case.

 

What we have here are two people that I think would be willing to answer the question with the sword and all that. My guess is if you asked Sean Denty if the abilities demonstrated by John Chang and others are real or not with his life on the line he would answer yes, and would be willing to die in his faith.

 

I also think if his life was on the line Buddy would answer no, it's not real, whether from his faith or scientific understanding, he is that firm about it.

 

I would say most of us don't have this level of faith yet. I certainly don't. In my mind those things might be possible, but there is no way I could say they are true or not if my life was on the line.

[voidisyinyang]

Just go to "In the News" at http://springforestqigong.com for video and radio interviews with Chunyi Lin.

 

His qigong is based on the small universe practice. He teaches using your hands to open up other peoples small universe channels and then using sword fingers and thunder palms to break up blockages and send in energy, respectively. He starts people with some simple standing exercises and then practices emptiness sitting meditation and the small universe. Then the moon is for the throat chakra and the sun is to build up your energy and the rainbow is the final level that he teaches. He says he could teach at least 10 levels higher than what he teaches.

 

Master Jim Nance is a Level 2 qigong master as trained as Chunyi Lin's protege.