John Changs 1st Westerner student

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[sheng zhen]

Sorry for the length of this. It is likely the last of what I will say on any of this and I don't think there is much else to be said. My best wishes and hopes that everyone can find their own path and peace of mind.

 

Regards,

 

Mike

Thanks for sharing! Its so inspiring to hear people with real experience tell their story.

[Wayfarer64]

Thanks for sharing! Its so inspiring to hear people with real experience tell their story.

 

A great entry here and a great boon to the site - many thanks to you Mike -that entry on this thread put much into needed perspective and even offered options and hopes for meeting new teachers as our futures unfold...

 

We may each realize that change is inevitable so just being open for the lives we wish to develop to indeed develop makes some sense to me...Our paths and our karmas may be changed thu efforts of will and a little help from teachers and loved ones etc...I will believe for now that deep meditation with an intent to be my best self and shed my karmic baggage can and does work "wonders"...

 

I await a teacher with peace of mind in the mean time...

[orb]

thx 4 sharing ur experience with us, mjjbecker. It's very motivating. Personally I've never met anybody even close to what the level of John Chang or your teacher is but rather charlatans. To give you an example once during a very expensive seminar a qigong "master" who had quite a few followers and is considered a big authority in the field, fell asleep right next to me during the meditation and was snorring so loud that I couldn't continue my meditation. I actually lost any hope of meeting a real teacher after 15 years of looking and limited my esoteric experience to growing vegetables in my garden which seems to provide me more peace of mind then all these qigong clowns that I have met, put together. But posts like yours help me still believe in the extistence of the real ancient wisdom. Just out of curiosity is your current teacher a neikung or a chikung master?

Edited May 24, 2008 by orb

[chinadao]

Thank you for setting things straight regarding chinas current economic culture. Most people have very romantic views about money and spirituality.

 

But Edward, I have some more questions. How much does Jiang charge? And how is your trainging with him? Is it consultations, where you learn the method one time and then come back to learn more when you are ready or is there a program you follow? Can anyone learn from him or does he say no to some people?

Hello Sheng Zhen,

Sifu Jiamg's approach is very individualistic. He doesn't just train you, he treats you. This I believe is one of the reasons for his success as a teacher. Jiang analyses your body and energetic makeup using his qi. He then makes corrections to each individual student/patient using his qi - repairing leakages, blockages, deficiencies, excesses, short curcuits. etc. He also prescribes herbal 'dan' pills to aid in the corrections or in training. These are quite expensive and apparently quite effective. There are many options in this area and the price is not set, it is based on the individual.

 

Only after treatment does Sifu Jiang begin training. Once again this begins on an individual basis. Different people will begin differently based upon their individual energetic needs. There is no manual or outline of the process given. As with most master - student relationships the process advances one step at a time. I understand that it is only after the student acheives a certain level that there begins to be some uniformity to the training amongst different students. Prior to that, different students will have different practices to a certain extent.

 

Many people do not train with Sifu Jiang, but see him to assist with health issues.

 

Edward Richards

Edited May 27, 2008 by chinadao

[sheng zhen]

Thanks for answering Edward.

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[DentyDao]

David always charged for his teaching and guidence, not to meet John Chang. That was just a bonus. He charged a good deal of money and continues to charge and no it's not cheap. There is a distinction; and as usual people will believe and say whatever they want.

 

David is not a saint or infalible for sure and is very human like the rest of us, but he played by the rules in Java; the rest is simply not true.

 

I like what was said about minding your own business. That tends to be the best approach for one's mental health. I'm going to follow that advice and enjoy my weekend.

 

As for the amount of work involved in finding a teacher and becoming a master yourself someday, it's unlikely that more one percent of us ever will even if we are lucky enough to meet the right teacher and have everything else fall into place. Still worth trying though.

 

Have a great memorial day.

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[DentyDao]

Michael,

 

I think you have made a fair call. Some of my points weren't directed at you, but that's ok if you choose to personalize it, your choice. I guess it all depends on how you look at it. In any case, only David's students know what takes place at a seminar. It really wasn't marketed in the used car salesmen way you put it. If this is what people are upset about then it's a little silly. Nothing really to be upset about, just the usual politics you'll find in any organization. Like kids lording over the attention of a parent, it's juvinile.

 

When I took David's offer to study, it was about the training; which has nothing to do with Mo Pai really. Meeting the master was nice too, but that was hardly the reason I accepted.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best as well.

Edited May 25, 2008 by seandenty

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[DentyDao]

Michael,

 

Peace be with you. There is no need to fight about these things. We should all be working togther to support eachother's practice. David is a wonderful teacher and has always been respectful and acted correctly in his dealings with John Chang. If others choose to see it differently and then make a public issue of it, that's a choice.

 

Good advice about not telling people to F off.

Edited May 25, 2008 by seandenty

[sabretooth]

Hello Edward Richard's,

you say you are training in Mo Pai and your dan is 40%,I do not disbelieve you by the way.

I have been training in chi kung for many year's now and focusing on my dan tian point and one of the thing's I noticed was vibration in that area and also with remaining celebate a sudden increase in physical strength.

My question is why would I suddenly become stronger.

Well done with meeting John Chang and becomming a student.

 

 

 

 

SABRETOOTH.

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[DentyDao]

When we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine ourselves.

 

-Confucius

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[RFunaki]

Mike,

 

I was a member of the Wenwukuan forum while it was still up. Comparitively, your posts now show you've undergone a great evolution. At least from my humble point of view - that's wonderful.

 

I wish you good luck and success in your training.

 

Thanks,

- Rick F.

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 6, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Guest allan]

When we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine ourselves.

 

-Confucius

 

A teacher by profession, I believe, should a bit more thorough that this, otherwise their students can learn only by halves.

 

The Master said, 'When we see men of worth, we should think of equally them; when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine ourselves.'

 

[Analects 4. 17 Legge]

[genmaicha]

I'd just like to add my 2 cents here as I guess a typical newbie who has come here to look for information on internal arts. Perhaps after having seen the John Chang bit out of Ring of Fire.

Regarding the hype about David Shen (what is this for?) Verdesi. I agree with the poster who'd like to see more facts. After all we can see that using the Dr title (which all over the world and also in Germany is recognized as either a MD or a PhD) and refering in a vague way to authorities without further details leaves an impression on people as you can see in this thread:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...st=0#entry47055

where the poster mwight writes:"...Also there is Dr. David Shen Verdesi who is leading western researcher on the Lei Shan Dao system of qigong."

 

So, I felt that using these titles for someone who hasn't got a PhD or MD seems misleading to me. But that seems to have been corrected.

But reacting angrily to requests for details I cannot understand. If you allege to something, please back it up if requested. The position "We don't have to offer any information." doesn't make sense to me either, since vague information is offered. Still, apparently a number of people found the trip with David Verdesi worthwhile, so I wouldn't discount the value of the offering. Just to me more transparency would create a better impression.

 

The same with the Kun Lun, which I've only heard about here. That's some crazy stuff. The guy pretending to have died to test his students. Showing pictures of himself with a halo above his head but then again answering to a request for a video on the claimed levitation skill "Why would I need to do that?" is all very weird. But then many people gave accounts of good experiences (they can't be all sockpuppets or in on the scam, can they?). But there are enough threads on that topic, I guess.

[sunshine]

A happy Hi to you,

 

indeed there are enough threads about all of this and as I have given my 2 cents too many times already

I won't even try again...

 

just to correct a tiny little misunderstand;

 

In Germany the Dr. is not = MD or PhD

 

Every subject, be it philosophy, sociology, law and whatever has the option of working on a doctorate paper that leads to a German Dr. (= doctorate). MD = Medical Doctor

In Germany the kind of subject you made your doctor in gets mentioned after the Dr., like

Dr. med. = Doctorate of medicine NOT equal MD (MD in the States does "just" require the final exam, which lets us poor doctors in Germany be only doctors without any kind of title.)

Dr. phil. = Doctorate of philosophy

etc. etc. etc.

 

Now. The German Dr. requires one to write a paper. Every subject has different requirements for that. In a way this is/can be similar to the requirements for an American PhD, but they do not translate one to one.

 

Regarding the Shen in David's name. I have no clue what the history of it is. But oftentimes students of masters of other cultures get assigned a name. Remember the guy who danced with the woolves??? Kevin Costner. Got assigned an Indian name...

 

one more thing. Better not to expect anything, not even transparency. Expectations either lead to anger,

frustration or even depression

 

so: don't worry, be happy

 

 

MD according to American standards but not allowed to practice in the States without an American exam

a doctor without a title according to German standards...

working on the title Dr. by working on a paper... which if accepted will allow for the title Dr. med. which

is not fully equal to an American PhD.

 

 

Harry

Edited June 7, 2008 by sunshine

[Smile]

http://www.thetaobums.com/John-Changs-1st-...dent-t5786.html

[genmaicha]

I've just gone through this thread again.

Somewhere in the middle the topic diverted to David Verdesi and among others Sifu Jiang is mentioned and the story that a Taiwanese (?) student felt he had been cheated.

I now found the blog. I don't think it had been linked:

http://blog.udn.com/giveman/1091998

 

Now my Chinese is rather rusty but a few points which I also saw mentioned before in Pinyin in some posts.

Sifu Jiang's Chinese name seems to be: 大陸師公 翟江峰 Zhai Jiang Feng- So his family name is Zhai. I don't know why he's referred to as Sifu Jiang and not Sifu Zhai. I don't know why Da Lu mainland is stated.

頭銜：庚門氣功第五代掌門 fifth lineage holder of the Shaolin Geng Men (Heavenly Gate) Qigong

 

The content of the blog has been discussed before, I think. I just wanted to post the URL for those interested.

 

 

(Edit: Somehow my two posts always are made into one ;-))

Edited July 14, 2008 by genmaicha

[genmaicha]