John Changs 1st Westerner student

[sunshine]

OK so who IS "Jiang" -- is there any thread or website or book, etc?

 

Or do I have to enact a Baboon male greeting here or what?

 

 

Jiang is a teacher of David. He is master in/of the lineage of the Lei Shan Dao David gets teaching in.

There is not much available about him. Mainly what was written on the Foundation Training forum...

You won't otherwise find much more about him except of what has been discussed already throughout

the recent monthes on taobums.

 

You can ask the other Baboons here... but I don't think you will get much more info than you get

from the dumb baboon Harry aka "sunshine"...

 

 

Harry

[Wayfarer64]

Pat,

 

I'm not interested in fighting anyone. I have had the pleasure of meeting several of the members here in person. One thing that I have found is that everyone got along really well and really enjoyed each other regardless of what was said on the forum. I know we would get along great too if we ever met. We would laugh and talk about our experiences and just generally have good time. The thought you have of beating me up or hurting me, probably would be the farthest thing from your mind. In fact, you probably be a little embarrest that you got so worked up about nothing much at all. That's the fact of the matter, truly.

 

I hope that we can overcome whatever differences we have had. If you think I'm scamming people, perhaps I can put you in contact with a few of the 40 or so people who attended seminars last year, after reading what I wrote, with David and his teachers and they can tell you that the things I've been writing about are quite real and the practices and methods are truly what I have claimed.

 

You can read the personal experiences of two students who went to China Last October with David on the website that some of David's students created; My article is there as well. One of them is Rene Navarro; he's been teaching martial arts for over forty years and is considered a top expert in the field of traditional Chinese medicine and is widely regarded as a master in his own right. I met him through the Healing Tao about eight years ago. I hope you enjoy the articles there:

 

Link

 

By the way, if you sign up as a member of our forum Pat, you get a free T-shirt. It says, "I went to China with David Verdesi and all I got was this fucking T-Shirt."

 

Cam,

 

You bet I would. You can hold the sword.

 

Thats a great post Sean. In fact, I have never meant to make a real fight of this. Just to keep yr feet on the ground. You have disparaged too many people here for me to believe that there is any cred to yr claims of grasping Buddhist teachings or internal powers of compassion and reasoned discourse. You seldom show any humility, only hubris; and this just does not reflect well on the supposition that inner strength has been granted to you or even has much of a toe-hold within you. It just does not ring true. I wish it did... there is much of interest broadcast within yr writings.

 

But you continue to demonstrate a willful self-distructive propensity to attack...For instance yr recent post calling me a coward has no place in your reality to find bed-rock.

 

Yr other, more pertinant claims need not be proved one iota if yr words are true. Then they are true. I do not sense anything solid but the yearning for wealth and power from the projections that I've incountered from DSV. That may not be a bad thing in itself - but I refute it as a path worth following for anyone worth their salt as a spiritual seeker...

Peace- PDG

[sunshine]

but I refute it as a path worth following for anyone worth their salt as a spiritual seeker...

 

Autsch...

[Neikung]

OK so who IS "Jiang" -- is there any thread or website or book, etc?

 

Or do I have to enact a Baboon male greeting here or what?

Drew,

A thread discussing Jiang has been posted elsewhere: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...jiang&st=60

A Taiwanese magazine claimed that he is a fraud. Here is a clip taken from the magazine (in Chinese): http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/flyzenmaster-wi...3&next=1571

According to this article, his full name is Zhai Jiang Feng. He is the fifth lineage holder of the Shaolin Geng Men (Heavenly Gate) Qigong. He lives in HuangShan and supposedly has disciples in Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore.

 

How Shaolin Geng Men Qigong becomes part of LeiShanDao is a mystery to me. At any case, Sifu John, Jiang and Wang Li Ping are not in the same lineage. Now, can you imagine a Master continues to teach a student once he knows that the student is studying with another Master? Anyone who knows Martial Art culture would know that it is disrespectful to the teacher for a student to study co-currently with more than 1 master and is a big no no.

[sunshine]

Anyone who knows Martial Art culture would know that it is disrespectful to the teacher for a student to study co-currently with more than 1 master and is a big no no.

 

Now. If we only were to talk about Martial Arts here...

[Wayfarer64]

Autsch...

 

Autsch- is that like "ouch" or is it like the german word for interjection? I guess I have been duly called on how I have interjected my ego here too- huh? and I appreciate the nudge from ya Harry!

[sunshine]

Autsch- is that like "ouch" or is it like the german word for interjection? I guess I have been duly called on how I have interjected my ego here too- huh? and I appreciate the nudge from ya Harry!

 

Hi Pat

 

actually it is a little of both. The German "ouch" and an interjection.

 

>>but I refute it as a path worth following for anyone worth their salt as a spiritual seeker...<<

 

as a current student of that path there clearly is an "Autsch"-aspect for me when reading above statement, the interjection is included in actually stating "Autsch"... the little nudge is a welcome sideeffect

 

It would be cool not to jump to conclusions that are based on what one only gets as impressions from internet exchange. One needs to meet people in person to know whom one is dealing with. Seriously.

 

 

Harry

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. I read through that link until I got to this:

 

Wang Li Ping, who is btw not Lei Shan Dao, although Lei Shan Dao is one of the lines he is a lineage holder of.

 

So it would seem that the whole "lineage" angle is a bit multi-faceted.

 

I think what Lee was saying about "secrecy" is really the central issue -- this goes back to the BUSHMEN btw.

 

When I was reading "Healing Makes Our Hearts Happy" -- a recent book on Bushmen powers (the same as qigong) -- it was reported that

 

Some of the male healers liked to covet and build up their N/UM which is "boiling heat" -- the same as jing.

 

This was considered a big no-no so the females would throw water on the males to bring them out of spirit travel as the N/um was supposed to be freely shared.

 

Of course the younger people have stronger N/UM but it's the healers that can transmute that electrochemical energy into electromagnetic energy.

 

Anyway secrecy seems to be required to do this and it would appear to make people afraid of certain Bushmen healers (which is the tradition going back to 80,000 BCE!! -- it's the original source for qigong and yoga, etc.)

 

The concept of "secrecy" is just that a CONCEPT -- empty awareness will

 

ALWAYS REMAIN VEILED, just like the Cosmic Mother.

 

Who are we to hold secrets? Haha. But then consciousness is NOT "power" rather it's the source of power.

 

So, for example, I was just the subject of strong anger at work because I came across information that was supposed to be secret, even though I work in a grassroots community organization and we promote the "community right to know" law. Corporate secrecy was established when corporations became legally "people" -- at the Robberbaron Gilded Age after the Civil War.

 

So, since I was sitting in full-lotus, as usual, I just absorbed the anger as EXTRA energy and then transmuted that female electrochemical energy into bliss-love and then just shot it back into the person who was in need of light, since they had depleted their energy as anger.

 

It's just harmonics and it's impersonal. After we EXORCISE the emotions then peace and natural euphoria are truly restored -- the "secret" of a CONCEPT is freed back to

 

Empty Awareness.

 

And so the "power" circulates in Nature with no "one" being more powerful than any "other."

Edited May 10, 2008 by drew hempel

[Wun Yuen Gong]

What does Geng Men mean? Geng as power and Men as in Gate or Door?

 

Is there any information on Shaolin Geng Men?

 

WYG

[DentyDao]

Edited May 11, 2008 by seandenty

[DentyDao]

Thats a great post Sean. In fact, I have never meant to make a real fight of this.

That's good to know. From my perspective, your desire to fight seemed very childish. Perhaps you should just be honest about how you feel in the future.

 

But you continue to demonstrate a willful self-distructive propensity to attack...For instance yr recent post calling me a coward has no place in your reality to find bed-rock.

Pat, generally when you tell some one that they have angered you and offer a challenge to fight them in public, it comes off kind of weak. Again just filling you in on my perspective.

 

Yr other, more pertinant claims need not be proved one iota if yr words are true. Then they are true. I do not sense anything solid but the yearning for wealth and power from the projections that I've incountered from DSV. That may not be a bad thing in itself - but I refute it as a path worth following for anyone worth their salt as a spiritual seeker...

Well, it seems like you don't get out much. You see, in your dozens and dozens of posts stating that you think everyone who follows this paths is a fool or some how stupid, your making a pretty strong claim given the fact that you have never met David or studied with him. Did you ever consider in all your great wisdom that not with holding these kind of judgments, unless you have some personal experience to back it up, is kind of like yelling a Christian or a Muslim because they failed to provide you with proof that their God is real or that the money they make/collect from their members is a get rich quick scheme without ever having entered a church or a mosque. From my perspective, it's your behavior that's offensive and uncalled for.

 

Get to know somebody before you judge them, is that unreasonable?

Edited May 11, 2008 by seandenty

[mantis]

this can't be good

 

buddy, you don't believe in fortune tellers!? what!? that was the 2nd post in this topic!

[松永道]

Sean,

 

You have nothing to gain from posting on your teacher David and Wang Liping. You have your proof. So who do you need to prove it to, right?

 

I study Longmen Pai neigong (along with Chinese medicine and Taijiquan) here in China with one of Master Wang's students. I haven't met the man himself, but from his students' actions and words I believe he is a quality cultivator with real ability. I hope to meet him someday. Indeed it will come down to yuanfen (缘分), or affinity as you say. In the mean time, I enjoy hearing about your experiences, it helps me develop a larger picture for my study.

 

Be well.

Edited May 11, 2008 by 松永道

[Gamuret]

Unfortunately, many of the posts here are simply intended to discredit and come from a place that wants or need to argue and cut down. These type of comments and speculative judgments make it difficult to have a meaningful, constructive dialog because they lake maturity and clear purpose.

 

And what would you call your hysterical and high-pitched reactions quoted below? Mature?

 

Badges, we don't need no stinking badges!

 

No, why would I. I certainly am not interested in sharing anything with you. Your an asshole. To the sincere people who have inquired privately, I have already answered. David holds numerous titles which he happily showed me and others. Wang Liping and his other teachers are not public figures, but their position remains regardless of what you or anyone thinks. It is of no consequesnce whether you believe me or not. As far as I'm concerned you and Buddy can go fuck eachother.

 

The problem is that you still don't get it. If someone puts claims of scholarly excellence and co-operation with reputable academic institutions in order to advertise himself and his enterprise, then it is expected that he will back his claims up.

 

If one refuses to provide evidence for these claims, then it is highly unethical to advertise himself through such means, attract people and above all to take their money.

 

What would you say, if I would start telling you: "Oh, you must believe me, because I have a Ph. D., I am Dr. so and so, but no I refuse to say where and when I obtained these credentials."

 

It is unethical, period.

 

As I said before, in my opinion the notion that preternatural powers are automatically a proof of spiritual maturity and accomplishments simply doesn't hold water.

 

If you deceive people, you are deceiving them, despite all your great powers.

 

Sean Denty, in all your zeal for immortality and powers you forgot one thing. Before one can become a god or immortal one must really be human and humane. An honest and decent person.

 

Let me put the whole thing to rest. I am rather fed up with how certain people try to spin the whole story around David Verdesi. And besides, it's a thread about John Chang.

 

Best,

 

G.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Gamuret

[mantis]

Qigong is a Chinese method of developing your personal energy. Various methods of Qigong and Nei Gong (Nei Kung) are taught including structural alignment, breathing, relaxation, movement, and meditation. Advanced student have the opportunity to learn Internal Alchemy or Nei Dan. These techniques come from the Wudang Shan Longmen Pai (Wudang Mountain Dragon Gate School) through Tseng Yun Xiang (Wudang Name Master Chen) a 25th generation Wudang Longmen Pai Taoist Priest.

 

Student: Integrating the Three Treasures

 

Level 1: Yang Shen Qigong, External Qi Healing I

Level 2: Walking Crane Qigong, External Qi Healing II

Level 3: External Qi Healing III, Candidate for Longmen Alchemy Training

 

it's the third program for students so i imagine it must take some time to get here and up at this point you're only a candidate, wow!

 

http://www.tccii.com/wudangqigong/

[Cameron]

Hi Mantis,

 

Not sure why you posted about Master Chen's training in the John Chang thread but I met a disciple of his a few weeks ago. It is pretty traditional training. That is to say, the training seems to be based on a very close teacher/student realationship and you wouldn't learn the alchemy before doing some basic classes first(and he gets to know you).

 

The disciple of Master Chen that I met is moving to Wudang Mountain to train full time for two years with Master Chen(who is now back on Wudang Mountain).

 

He will be in Atlanta for a week next month. Since I live here I will try to catch a class or two if possible.

 

 

Cam

[Gerard]

Edited May 11, 2008 by durkhrod chogori

[HouTian]

Hi,

 

You cannot study any other system with Mo-Pai becasue it will mess up your chi. Sean you should know this yourself being an Ex student of Kostas.

 

Anybody who says otherwise is crazy.

 

As for John chang going to china for davids grading,seems pretty far fetched to me and will have a definate answer in a few days.

 

Regards,

[Jedi777]

[sunshine]

have heard this twisted logic before

 

Please go back to what I stated above. This logic is not more or less twisted than yours, as neither you or me or most others here can speak from any true place of proper authority. There is absolutely no absolute proof for your believe to be more true than any other...!

 

 

Harry

[voidisyinyang]

This thread needs some Booty Shakin!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zreYq4yHYR8&NR=1

[DentyDao]

This thread needs some Booty Shakin!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zreYq4yHYR8&NR=1

 

Indeed.

 

 

Hi,

 

You cannot study any other system with Mo-Pai becasue it will mess up your chi. Sean you should know this yourself being an Ex student of Kostas.

 

Anybody who says otherwise is crazy.

 

As for John chang going to china for davids grading,seems pretty far fetched to me and will have a definate answer in a few days.

 

Regards,

 

Houtian, of course David is not training the mo pai methods.

 

As for your answers, I think we know what kind of information you will give.

[mantis]

Hi Mantis,

 

Not sure why you posted about Master Chen's training in the John Chang thread but I met a disciple of his a few weeks ago. It is pretty traditional training. That is to say, the training seems to be based on a very close teacher/student realationship and you wouldn't learn the alchemy before doing some basic classes first(and he gets to know you).

 

The disciple of Master Chen that I met is moving to Wudang Mountain to train full time for two years with Master Chen(who is now back on Wudang Mountain).

 

He will be in Atlanta for a week next month. Since I live here I will try to catch a class or two if possible.

Cam

 

please do let me know how it turns out, it all looks very interesting!

[Wayfarer64]

Harry-

 

I am sorry to have offended you with my entries on this and other threads about DSV. Still, I think anyone who can be as wrong in attitude, rude, narrow-minded, and myopic as SD has shown himself time and time again to be; and is allowed by his supposed teachers to continue to represent them/him in a public forum offers very little in the way of path-finding. It just has a very false tone to it. It truly seems MOSTLY to be about scamming folks out of their money- hard earned or other-wise.

 

And remember - even mass murderers like Ted Bundy had huge amounts of charisma that charmed his victims with apparent ease... This may be an unjust comparison, but it serves to give pause I hope...

 

There is a truthyness to some of what is offered by DSV, but I see a bottom line to the operation that smacks of a scam par excelance that uses known paths and techniques but holds no heart, no soul, no compassion, and is in its essence meant to absorb energy, not expand and cleanse spiritual strength ...

 

Denty's continued rudeness and personal slurs offer a picture of self-serving and distructive impulses that is easy to see. I need not meet some-one to get to know them ... In fact a woman who became my lover and deepest companion I did not meet, but communicated with on line for 3 months before we met. and it was that communication-(plus a few phone calls) that drew us together! Vibes are real my friend... and should not be discounted.

 

ALSO- Much content... both deep and trite can be communicated in writing-otherwise how did literature catch-on!?

 

I am hopeful that yr inner strength will not be absorbed in this path to be redirected to serve the cravings of those who so obviously (to me at least, if not several others here as well)- seek to use yr human/spiritual development in order to inhance their own place in this world...

 

EDIT/ADDED:

 

"Argument implies a desire to win,

strengthens egotism, and ties us

to the belief in the idea of

'a self, a being, a living being, and a person'.."

- Hui Neng

 

 

I have visited the foundation site a few hours worth (using an alias)...and found it full of more BS than wisdom.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Wayfarer64

[jeffgrove]

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Mystery-Madame...l/dp/0486226824

 

 

can be downloaded for free from

 

http://avaxsphere.com/ebooks/theology_occu...Magi_Tibet.html