John Changs 1st Westerner student

[Buddy]

Cameron,

I appreciate your comments but I must demure. I am strong in my conviction but as well know mine is not the only view. I have a full life, wife and family. I'll back down from the head chopping just now.

[No Cause]

In response to the typical attacks on science/physics - im a physicist, we don't like fascism any more than anyone else does so if you don't mind cooling it a bit with the attacks. No, we don't know everything about the universe, but we do know a hell of a lot, and atleast we are trying, its an ongoing process.

 

Science really does work, every single piece of technology we use everyday is based on it, including your computers you are posting with. There are some complex things science doesn't have answers for yet, that's because we don't yet have the right tools for the job. Its no reason to fill in the blanks with pure opinion and call it fact. Beliefs are different, some are consistent with observable reality, some aren't, but we get to choose what we believe and what we don't, so why does it matter?

 

With respect to John Chang. Ive spoken to the guy in the video posted here, he's a nice guy and as previously suggested he was happy to take on serious students when we talked. But as a good teacher once asked me, "What is it you really want to learn?". Chang doesn't teach anymore. His students sometimes do. If you are looking for enlightenment bear in mind his students are level 3 at highest, pretty far from the level 72 of enlightenment which apparently only 2 people in documented history have attained using this system. If you are looking for power or any other system to get an advantage in life - there are easier ways.

 

If you are looking for enlightenment, check out, for example, Buddha's stuff; he apparently had a very high success rate in getting others enlightened.

 

Im a buddhist, my wife is a muslim, the friends we eat lunch with every day are strict chirstians and heavy athiests. We debate the finer points of reality and learn something from it to further our understanding, but at the end we all believe what we choose to believe and take no offense from the discussion.

 

I think its pretty easy to find the proof you are looking for if it exists and you try hard enough. I believe there are real teachers out there with something real to offer. But I don't blame these real teachers from not wanting to take on western students or prove anything to them, we are hardly the pinnacles of civilised society like we believe we are, if you need proof of that then just check some of the content of these previous posts.

 

Very nice post Jakara. Science can not explain eveything yet but it's the best we have, it's the candle in the darkness.

 

Even though I am inclined to believe that what's depicted in the video is possible. To blindly believe in whatever you see is plain stupidity.

Edited May 9, 2008 by No Cause

[Cameron]

Cameron,

I appreciate your comments but I must demure. I am strong in my conviction but as well know mine is not the only view. I have a full life, wife and family. I'll back down from the head chopping just now.

 

 

So does this mean you still leave some room for the possibilty of these things existing but are just skeptical? I was under the impression you thought those type of abilities are totally fabricated with no wiggle room for doubt. Being skeptical is understandable.

 

My guess is Sean D would still say yes in the face of the sword due to his strong faith in these things, am I right Sean?

 

ps. I think it's totally acceptable to be in the "I don't know" camp. Probably alot of us are still at that point with this stuff.

[Neijia]

 

 

well said.

[DentyDao]

edit

Edited July 11, 2015 by seandenty

[minkus]

[shidoin]

[sheng zhen]

Very nice post Jakara. Science can not explain eveything yet but it's the best we have, it's the candle in the darkness.

Right. Science is no more than religion. But that should maby be another discussion.

[Pero]

[minkus]

Nobody is mentioning THE most important thing...

 

THE most important thing ! Now you made me curious Pero What thing you mean or in wich part of the practice its situated ?

[Buddy]

"So does this mean you still leave some room for the possibilty of these things existing but are just skeptical? I was under the impression you thought those type of abilities are totally fabricated with no wiggle room for doubt."

 

Both. I believe in the possibility of all things. But I think these types of abilities are totally fabricated.

[Pero]

THE most important thing ! Now you made me curious Pero What thing you mean or in wich part of the practice its situated ?

 

Teacher.

[minkus]

Teacher.

 

You got a point there hehe, cheers !

[scualo blanco]

hi to everybody

This is my first post.

 

Some things to say...

 

1)A big thanks to shidoin and to Jim for allowing us to see this film.

 

2)No. The doors are not open for david's teachings, as previous was written. The doors are open only to wealthy people with lots of money. Not to the average person out there. These teachings has nothing to do with millions of dollars or euro. Nothing. Period. There is no need for excuses about charging someone those big numbers of money...

 

3)The Greek man's dream was not the same. Sorry.

The Greek man never asked for money for his teachings. He just had his own criteria of who could be a part of his teacher's lineage. Plus, his credentials for his titles etc were open to everyone. He had nothing to hide. Now, his book make other people make millions of it, just by "selling" their teachers in rich Westerners in the name of "Magus of Java". Sad....

 

4)David is not a student of John Chang anymore. This is common knowledge to everyone in the Mopai. Everything else is just not true.

 

5)It is very sad everytime that someone writes something about Mopai, etc, David's associates and his "bussines" plans to come to the surface. Neidan is not a copyright of anybody.... The same goes for MoPai.

This has nothing to do with David's teachers etc.

But you have to know that the "smell" of all these overexposure is not good to most of the serious people and teachers out there....

 

Once again, thank you Shidoin.

Edited May 9, 2008 by scualo blanco

[sunshine]

>>2)No. The doors are not open for david's teachings, as previous was written. The doors are open only to wealthy people with lots of money. Not to the average person out there. These teachings has nothing to do with millions of dollars or euro. Nothing. Period. There is no need for excuses about charging someone those big numbers of money...<<

 

I met a lot of people at the seminars... and most are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from rich.

I am not and still I made my way there...!

 

 

Harry

[sheng zhen]

I met a lot of people at the seminars... and most are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from rich.

I am not and still I made my way there...!

People living in ewstern society should not have any trouble getting money. If they are willing to not be so lazy. And get a little disipline.

 

Which is two things that are needed in serious practice anyways. So if you are not able to get the money to do what your want, you wont be able to practice what you want either.

 

And an other thing that should be killing the discussion on the stupid master that charge too much for their teaching is the fact that if you think its too expencive, go to someone you can afford or someone who teaches for free! That shouldnt be any problem, should it?

 

After learning Xing Shen Zuang I would say that it was worth every penny! And if the rest of what David teaches has the same quality, money certainly is not an issue for me.

[Taoist81]

People living in ewstern society should not have any trouble getting money. If they are willing to not be so lazy. And get a little disipline.

 

You obviously do not have a very broad range of experience. Some of us have known many, many disciplined and extremely hard working individuals that due to circumstances (often completely beyond their control) find themselves in very poor conditions. Even speaking as a Libertarian it is quite clear that some people just have rotten "luck".

[DentyDao]

4)David is not a student of John Chang anymore. This is common knowledge to everyone in the Mopai. Everything else is just not true.

Actually David is still a student of John Chang and they do keep in touch. John Chang will be in China to meet with David and witness/assist his training as he completes the level five. John Chang supports David and they have always maintained their friendship.

I didn't meet any rich people at David's seminars? I'm a school teacher with a family to support and I managed it without to much difficulty? If you really want to learn these things, the only thing standing in the way is you.

 

Most of John Chang's students who were successful in level one and two spent thousands in flights to Java, hotel bills and other expenses, often having to cover living expenses while waiting months or weeks to be tested or taught. Some waited years, decades before they learnt the basics.

 

First lesson, aspiring immortals know how to overcome obstacles and get stuff done.

[scualo blanco]

Hi Sean

 

Most of John Chang's students who were successful in level one and two spent thousands in flights to Java, hotel bills and other expenses, often having to cover living expenses while waiting months or weeks to be tested or taught. Some waited years, decades before they learnt the basics.

 

I know exactly how things are. Not like that you describe.

Life in Java costs nothing for a Westerner. It is very cheap. You just need one or two days there, not 3-4 weeks etc. Chang never charged anything for his teachings and he heals and feeds people for free. Please don't compare different things.

 

Actually David is still a student of John Chang and they do keep in touch. John Chang will be in China to meet with David and witness/assist his training as he completes the level five. John Chang supports David and they have always maintained their friendship.

 

I know that this is not the case. Believe me.

We'll have to see then.

John Chang to China to assist his training to level 5?

Ok. Time will show. I'll be here to talk for that again when (if) time comes....

 

sheng zhen hi

 

In my country the basic salary is 700 euros (of course others are paid with more money) and most of the people work more than 9 hours a day. They have only 15-20 days for vacation. There is a lot of unemployment and most of the people work all day sometimes two jobs to feed their family.

Be sure, there is a lot of disipline and hard work for them....

 

People living in ewstern society should not have any trouble getting money

Like David for example? Is he a hard worker?

Or should I charge 5.000 euros for zhan zhuang and Taiji? With this way I wouldn't have a trouble too to find money.

 

It is a very good thing that you like your practice so much and that really has some effects in your life.

But the measurment of spirituality with money is a completely different animal....

 

SB

[Wun Yuen Gong]

SeanD,

 

In Foundation training at what stage does someone learn the real or so called Lei Shan Dao system? I think i read the foundation training is mixed and is more of a primer for the REAL Thunder path can you confirm this at all?

 

I was hoping to go to the Ozzy seminar but lack of funds, i would be interested in knowing more about how its set up and what the out come of the foundation exercises do for you. I read the website though on how it opens up the channels etc. But love to here your view on it all and if certain abilities can be attained from foundation training rather the "Real" Thunder Path system?

 

Regards

WYG

[Gamuret]

Edited May 10, 2008 by Gamuret

[DentyDao]

[joeblast]

[DentyDao]

SeanD,

 

In Foundation training at what stage does someone learn the real or so called Lei Shan Dao system? I think i read the foundation training is mixed and is more of a primer for the REAL Thunder path can you confirm this at all?

The foundation training is a Long Men Pai training that goes up to level 1 and 2a (actually well beyond), but is also a yang shen dao and jin dan dao practice; a complete method to liberation in and of itself. After that students can train in the Lei Shan Dao to reach level four one on one with David, has to be Tian Ming, destiny. One of the first questions I asked David after he reached level four was if he intends to train students to reach level four. He told me that he is commited to training students to this level. A few of his students have passed the level 2a.

 

Don't misunderstand me and think that this means it's easy, it's not easy to become an immortal.

[Guest allan]