The Grades of Initiation

[helpfuldemon]

The door to the Abyss is your root Chakra.  When you turn the key, it is destroyed and ground up. All the visions in the Abyss are inside you.  God dwells inside you, as do demons and spirits and memories.  The sense you make of things is particular to you.  It is your Universe, which is a replica of the exterior Universe.

[Lairg]

2 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

The door to the Abyss is your root Chakra. 

 

When I look at root chakras they are unfolded in first stage enlightenment and in women that have given birth naturally. 

 

The natural birth process is operated by a cosmic entity and that experience connects those women to the cosmos in a way that most men are not.  Hence perhaps the predominance of males in forums such as this

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

How come Crowley gets to be all the fun stuff?  

 

'Be' all the fun stuff ... or 'do' all the fun stuff ?  

[Aeordimm]

 

On 9/9/2022 at 5:37 PM, Lairg said:

 

When I look at root chakras they are unfolded in first stage enlightenment and in women that have given birth naturally. 

 

The natural birth process is operated by a cosmic entity and that experience connects those women to the cosmos in a way that most men are not.  Hence perhaps the predominance of males in forums such as this

 

When I use root Chakra, It's merely to connect myself to the Elder reality, where my body came from, the Earth, and the Cosmos. Many times it could be a painful gut-wrenching experience because all of the imperfections in your body come out. Consider a gemstone with cracks and impurities. It will have much less strength than a flawless gemstone. The further you are from the roots, the weaker you become.

 

Women are much more grounded than men due to their energy composition; therefore, they are rarely interested in something so abstract.

[Lairg]

5 hours ago, Aeordimm said:

Women are much more grounded... therefore, they are rarely interested in something so abstract.

 

It is certainly true that the elemental urge to reproduce often pushes women into intense/difficult processes with children and partners that keep the women busy for 3 or 4 decades. 

 

Nevertheless, for whatever reason, I meet far more women that are posted here from the galaxy than I do men.

[helpfuldemon]

What is Enlightenment?  It is to know.  And in knowing, we act.  

 

Can we agree on how to act and what is true?  It would seem that to the willful, all Will is true, until it is declared false (by them).  In this world of many ideas and ideologies,  where do we look for truth?  In all of it.  There are pieces of truth in everything.

 

But what do we say is "the way"?  This truly remains up to the person.  I have my own set of beliefs, and I try to act according to them.  The world is Chaos, and no matter how hard one tries to order it, Chaos it remains.  Not just because of a differing in ideals, but because youth is full of ignorance and the testing of Wisdom.  Also, accidents occur everywhere.  Nature is not bound to the Will of mankind.

 

So what do we do to govern and protect ourselves from Chaos?  We choose Order.  We exalt science.  We listen for Wisdom.  We take caution in our word and deed.  

 

A good place to begin is to believe that peace and happiness, security and love are the most desirable elements of life.  Now, some people do not want community, and some people desire excitement and danger.  Some people have no idea what love and happiness is.  More Chaos.  What do you desire to see in the world?  How do you think you can bring about change?  Do you wish to organize the Chaos, or allow it to reign?  

 

If it is not the desire to aid people in experiencing a more enjoyable life, then perhaps it is about your own life that motivates you to action.  Certainly we want to be safe.  Perhaps what you bring to the world is rules of Law that will accommodate our peace and stability?  All intellectual endeavor is art, and an artist is meant to create a vision to share, so that we have a measure of what is Good.  

 

The 7=4 is about finding this art and bringing it to the table of life.  The Magus is the completion of this task, and they will have Wisdom to share with us.  I do not believe there is special powers or privileges conferred to these ranks of magic.  I think all speculation on special powers or privileges are delusional.  As I said earlier, I don't think the Gods see a difference in us.  I think we take action and have beliefs, and get what we create.  

[Lairg]

4 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

What is Enlightenment?  It is to know

 

I tend to think that enlightenment is when the higher light enters in.

 

Knowing can occur in all planes/chakras - with or without higher light.

 

Thus I know how to walk.  No mental processing is required.  It is direct knowing - on the physical plane.

[helpfuldemon]

2 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I tend to think that enlightenment is when the higher light enters in.

 

Knowing can occur in all planes/chakras - with or without higher light.

 

Thus I know how to walk.  No mental processing is required.  It is direct knowing - on the physical plane.

You don't seem to understand your own metaphor.

 

What is it to be in the "higher light"?  it means that something is illuminated.  What is it to have something illuminated?  It is to make something known.  Therefore, being in the higher light is to know, so essentially it is what I said it was, according to your analogy.

[Nungali]

I KNOW  the  Moon is still there   during dark Moon  even though it is not ILLUMINATED . 

 

Therefore  it  isn't   what you said according to the analogy .

 

 

 

....  mental process   ..... should be   required       

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

mental process   ..... should be   required

 

Unless the entity is focused on another plane.

 

For  example, intuition, being a heart/buddhic function occurs before any mental process.

[Nungali]

17 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Unless the entity is focused on another plane.

 

For  example, intuition, being a heart/buddhic function occurs before any mental process.

 

 

Only if you define  intuition in your own terms .

 

 A quick scan online about intuition will  show that is going on with it .

 

A BIG hint is that people have  most effective intuition   in the field they have the most experience in  .

 

My intuition tells me that any  valid research on this subject is likely to be ignored in this thread     

[helpfuldemon]

Philosophy is a funny thing; it is a mountain to climb, but when you step back from the mountain, you can summarize it with common sense words.  

 

Magick is the act of creating a temple of the mind.  It is formed by building blocks of ideas and well thought patterns to justify one's perspective.  It is the creation of a soul.  What I wrote a few posts up about Chaos was a hard won struggle to understand, but if you step back, it's easy enough to say that everyone is different, and that we all have our own way of thinking, and it can cause conflict and confusion.  But I had to climb into this awareness and build my temple.  

 

Now that I have settled the temple grounds, I can create observations of particular Wisdom in the direction I choose, keeping in mind that we are all likely to have our own interpretation of things.  This seems like an unnecessary and thankless task.  It would be easier to let people find their own truth.  

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

A BIG hint is that people have  most effective intuition   in the field they have the most experience in  .

 

What is the difference between instinct and intuition?

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

To summarize, the grades of initiation are such that the Adept is climbing a ladder of knowledge, developing a philosophical perspective of the Universe, and especially the life of mankind.  It involves the moral and philosophical training of the magician.  Magick aside, it is the intellectual climb through ignorance.  This is accomplished in the lower grades, and is re-examined in the higher.  The 4=7, the 6=5 and the 9=2 are all similar, except that the tools from which they develop their philosophy are different, and so the outcome of the philosophy will be different.  Each has a world view that is valid.  The higher grades denote a more powerful foundation of the temple of the mind, and their Will shall be stronger, because they have undergone rigorous training to develop it.  In the pursuit of this, the Adept confronts many forms of knowledge, and so they are acquainted with many fields and ideas, and are not easily persuaded away from what they understand, because they have examined and confirmed their knowledge.  They have acquired many observations of philosophical steps towards enlightenment that they can pass on as Wisdom.  They can find peace in their knowledge and no longer wander through ideas lost.  They have precise words when they communicate.  With each level of adeptship, the magician is able to have more choices of action, and understands more beliefs, and isn't limited to one, specifically, though they probably settle on one they favor, which suits their level of attainment.  

 

As I said earlier, I do not attribute special powers of the supernatural, nor special privileges of the Divine to the various levels of attainment.  "Magick", in the supernatural sense, is an illusion, and is only a tool for contemplation.  Only the fool falls for claims of supernatural abilities.  

 

When the magician reaches mastery over the philosophy of the climbing of the Tree, they are now free from contradiction, and can act according to their Will.  There is no more illusion to suffer, no more struggling with ignorance.  They are free to do what they will.

[Lairg]

5 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

the grades of initiation are such that the Adept is climbing a ladder of knowledge,

 

That is generally the case with human initiatory groups

 

The inner plane initiations are about climbing the ladder that is the planes of Existence.  On each plane the substance within the light body of the initiate needs to be brought under control and refined.

 

Thus the initiate becomes competent on each of those planes and thereby is delegated functions and responsibilities

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

What is the difference between instinct and intuition?

 

 

 

And now , randomly,    instinct enters the picture  ?

 

I  thought you would have been able to make your own New Age Cosmic pronunciati about it like you did about intuition  - who needs a dictionary when you can do that ? 

 

 

Instinct is an in born,  natural fixed pattern of behaviour  in response to certain stimuli  . While intuition is that ability of knowing something without obvious external input ., it is a process of unconscious mentation with a conscious solution or answer

 

We come 'hard wired' with instinct but intuition gets developed through life experience  .

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Nungali

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

To summarize, the grades of initiation are such that the Adept is climbing a ladder of knowledge, developing a philosophical perspective of the Universe, and especially the life of mankind.  It involves the moral and philosophical training of the magician.  Magick aside, it is the intellectual climb through ignorance.  This is accomplished in the lower grades, and is re-examined in the higher.  The 4=7, the 6=5 and the 9=2 are all similar, except that the tools from which they develop their philosophy are different, and so the outcome of the philosophy will be different.  Each has a world view that is valid.  The higher grades denote a more powerful foundation of the temple of the mind, and their Will shall be stronger, because they have undergone rigorous training to develop it.  In the pursuit of this, the Adept confronts many forms of knowledge, and so they are acquainted with many fields and ideas, and are not easily persuaded away from what they understand, because they have examined and confirmed their knowledge.  They have acquired many observations of philosophical steps towards enlightenment that they can pass on as Wisdom.  They can find peace in their knowledge and no longer wander through ideas lost.  They have precise words when they communicate.  With each level of adeptship, the magician is able to have more choices of action, and understands more beliefs, and isn't limited to one, specifically, though they probably settle on one they favor, which suits their level of attainment.  

 

As I said earlier, I do not attribute special powers of the supernatural, nor special privileges of the Divine to the various levels of attainment.  "Magick", in the supernatural sense, is an illusion, and is only a tool for contemplation.  Only the fool falls for claims of supernatural abilities.  

 

When the magician reaches mastery over the philosophy of the climbing of the Tree, they are now free from contradiction, and can act according to their Will.  There is no more illusion to suffer, no more struggling with ignorance.  They are free to do what they will.

 

 

At least you seem to be getting the concept  that  'Do what thou Wilt' requires some advancement in consciousness , thinking , practice and training and it snt a license   for all to engage in a free for all murder spree /  sex brawl in the street  - that you  started off with .

[helpfuldemon]

Yes, I see how it works now.  

[Nungali]

That is why I was constantly reminding people to 'check the tense' of the phrase :  Do what thou Wilt  shall be the whole of the Law

 

In other places Crowley says very clearly  that it is  a state to come after a lot of training development and balancing . And in society at large , the same  ( if such a thing is possible ?  ) .

[helpfuldemon]

I've decided to repurchase a few books.  I bought Equinox 3 vol 1, Gems of the Equinox, 777, and Liber ABBA.  I have to be careful because Magick makes me mad, but I wanted to re-read and see what I missed the first time.  The first time I read these, I was going through a lot of terrible torture from my demon, and I was very chaotic in my learning process.  Now that I feel I understand things a bit better, and am no longer sick, I want to read them again.  After all, the Gods did send me the word Aiwass, it would seem they want me to understand.  

[Lairg]

16 hours ago, Nungali said:

A BIG hint is that people have  most effective intuition   in the field they have the most experience in  .

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

While intuition is that ability of knowing something without obvious external input .

 

Odd?

[helpfuldemon]

I decided to only order the Gems of the Equinox.  The other two are mostly Magick books, and since that stuff drives me crazy and I don't believe in it, I decided to cancel them.  Oh wait, I kept the Equinox 3 vol 1, that one was a kindle purchase.

[helpfuldemon]

I think I am one step away from being a master of Wisdom (my own wisdom, of course).  I don't want to take the next step though.  I am at a place that is comfortable to me, and this is something I do not take for granted.  It is a wise place in itself, so I can be content.  

Edited September 13, 2022 by helpfuldemon

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I've decided to repurchase a few books.  I bought Equinox 3 vol 1, Gems of the Equinox, 777, and Liber ABBA.  I have to be careful because Magick makes me mad, but I wanted to re-read and see what I missed the first time.  The first time I read these, I was going through a lot of terrible torture from my demon, and I was very chaotic in my learning process.  Now that I feel I understand things a bit better, and am no longer sick, I want to read them again.  After all, the Gods did send me the word Aiwass, it would seem they want me to understand.  

 

You're welcome .

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

 

Odd?

 

No, not to me it isnt .  That is the standard definition .