The Grades of Initiation

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, mcoolio said:

 

Sorry, I'm gonna do this again demon ...

 

 

Slap of love!

 

Get on the queue !

 

 

 

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

18 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

For me, it's better to understand these powers you encountered as Angels or Divine Laws.  Yes they will be uncaring and possibly cruel.  They are created to perform a purpose.  Nothing more, nothing less.  They have no will of their own, they mindlessly do their job.

 

The other thing is, these pursuits are not intended to be solitary.  There's strong protections when working within a community.  In the past, occult topics were passed on orally and the initiate was chosen based on their mental emotional and ethical stability.  They were over 40, settled down in a marriage with children.  They were well grounded individuals.  Unfortunately, occult topics are in print available to anyone who wants to learn about it.  The protections in the past are null and void.

 

 

Something to keep in mind... maybe   The divine chariot goes up and down.  It's a lot easier to hitch a ride going down, and then go up, rather than jumping on while the chariot is rising.  It sounds to me like you descended instead of ascended and you weren't prepared for what was waiting for you in the abyss.  The good news is that the divine chariot operates on a schedule, it's a processional.  So, even if you're stuck in the abyss, there should still be a way for to ascend.  But you're at a disadvantage because most don't start their journey from where you are right now.

I appreciate all the ideas people have about initiation and demons, and ego destruction and travelling the astral.  I have no evidence that this was meant to be a helpful thing.  I do agree that there was ego destruction, but I think that is a result of the experience, not the reason for it.  I don't dare to say what it could be, because then it would give me some false hope, or give others a false hope.  I'd hate to think it was just some sort of punishment or torture with no reason or benefit.  I like to think that since the God responded to my plea for love, that love is important to the God, or, by responding to me, I am important somehow, but like I said earlier, it doesn't feel like a privilege.  In the end, it was just hardship for me.  I had to choose to fight to educate myself, I had to choose to destroy my ego.  

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I appreciate all the ideas people have about initiation and demons, and ego destruction and travelling the astral.  I have no evidence that this was meant to be a helpful thing.  I do agree that there was ego destruction, but I think that is a result of the experience, not the reason for it.  I don't dare to say what it could be, because then it would give me some false hope, or give others a false hope.  I'd hate to think it was just some sort of punishment or torture with no reason or benefit.  I like to think that since the God responded to my plea for love, that love is important to the God, or, by responding to me, I am important somehow, but like I said earlier, it doesn't feel like a privilege.  In the end, it was just hardship for me.  I had to choose to fight to educate myself, I had to choose to destroy my ego.  

 

 

Sorry HD ... but your ego is not destroyed at all .  In fact, its one of the main sources of your trouble and its VERY active .

 

Now you can spend 1/2 an hour being mad at me and  getting angry as I keep telling you the truth .

 

Then 'blow it out'  and sit down and watch something nice, interesting and stimulating .... like toroidal vortices  ;

 

 

 

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

I don't have any trouble.  

 

And yes, my ego has been destroyed, many times.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

I don't have any trouble.  

Great ! I am glad to hear that now the wires in your head that torture you and stop you thinking have gone   and  I am glad that there isnt a God that singled you out of the whole Universe just to be cruel to you

 

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

And yes, my ego has been destroyed, many times.

 

 

oh yeah , and I am glad you got rid of that ego  ..... that made you think God singled you out of the whole Universe to give you all that special attention .

 

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

....

 

And yes, my ego has been destroyed, many times.

 

Wait a minute  .... does it grow back or something ?  

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Great ! I am glad to hear that now the wires in your head that torture you and stop you thinking have gone   and  I am glad that there isnt a God that singled you out of the whole Universe just to be cruel to you

 

 

I have come to terms with this, but since you put it that way... maybe I AM special!

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

oh yeah , and I am glad you got rid of that ego  ..... that made you think God singled you out of the whole Universe to give you all that special attention .

 

 

That was no manifestation of Ego, that is just facts.

[Nungali]

Do you think its possible for someone to be an intelligence vampire  ... and suck out your IQ and then add it to  their own ?

 

And if so, could they do that over the internet  ? 

[Lairg]

Logic without experiment often seems to lead astray.

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

Whenever the shaman farted, it rained.

[Nungali]

I thought Shaman farts made thunder and it was their pissing that caused rain ? 

 

I used weather majixs  yesterday to make 'shaman  rain  '  on someone  , it worked ! - they got soaked !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Nungali

[Lairg]

Are magicians exempt from personal and group karma?

 

I have had personal experience of group karma - for example, I had a strange injury when with a group and the guy that invited me had an almost identical injury to the same foot  2 weeks later.

 

These days I am careful about mixing with groups with heavy karma

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Lairg said:

Are magicians exempt from personal and group karma?

 

Yes.

 

We do whatever we want , without repercussions , over many lifetimes .

 

- dont worry, I shall spare you . 

 

20 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I have had personal experience of group karma - for example, I had a strange injury when with a group and the guy that invited me had an almost identical injury to the same foot  2 weeks later.

 

The guy had an injury to the 'same foot'  ..... what  , your foot  ? 

 

Someone else had an injury to your foot  ?      Yes, that is strange .

 

20 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

These days I am careful about mixing with groups with heavy karma

 

Oh yeah ,   good idea , maybe resign from the local  Neo-Nazi Party .

[Lairg]

18 minutes ago, Nungali said:

We do whatever we want , without repercussions , over many lifetimes .

 

I have read various OTO biographies.  All those I read seemed to me to be tragedies

[Nungali]

18 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

I have read various OTO biographies.  All those I read seemed to me to be tragedies

 

 

What is an OTO biography  ? 

[Nungali]

Oh wait ..... I just got it

 

 

 

[Nungali]

... biographies do have a habit of  ending  in tragedy .

 

 

 

[Neirong]

On 30.09.2022 at 12:59 AM, Nungali said:

Do you think its possible for someone to be an intelligence vampire  ... and suck out your IQ and then add it to  their own ?

 

And if so, could they do that over the internet  ? 

That would explain a lot of things about this topic.

[helpfuldemon]

I have been re-reading more Crowley, and I have to say that even should you do some of the recommended practices of discovering your true Will, there is no guarantee that you will not be lawless.  The idea seems to be simply that you do things with intention, rather than being a victim of bad programming, or choices that you made that you don't agree with.  It doesn't stop a person from being hateful, or warfaring, or evil.  Should a person be inclined to hate or be evil, they are free to do that, if it is their Will.  

 

I said before that if there were a True Will, then we would all partake in it, being that it is the only Will to have that is True.  But that is not the case with Crowley.  It is the recognition of all people being different, and having their own Will.  He hopes that should we all find our True Will, that there will be no clashing, but that is ridiculous.  

 

I find that Crowley contradicts himself on many levels, and his system is a mess.  His goal to bring harmony is impossible to achieve, and when you read about how he encourages us to fight one another, and says that hate is like love; you realize that harmony isn't his agenda.  The only true wisdom that Crowely manages to bring is the recognition that we are free to do what we need or want to do, and that we do not need to be restrained in many ways that the major religions say.  His mystical interpretation on life is fancy, but none of it can be proven, and it all seems like motive for inspiration rather than factually how we exist in the Universe.  He gives us plenty to empower ourselves to do and to act and says that when we complete his exercises, we will know ourselves well enough to know how to use our Will, and what actions to take.  Still, it doesn't prevent war, or hate, or evil.  It appears that he thinks these things are part of our nature, and I would agree, being that this world is not perfect, and that we don't always get what we want or have control over what happens to us.  

 

I like that Crowley frees us from some of the unnecessary restraints that have been placed upon us.  I appreciate that for some people, they are not in tune with their Will.  This was never much of a problem for me, so I can't say I relate much to it.  His system is for the strong to overpower the weak, and for the strong to fight for their rights and belongings amongst themselves.  It is animal law turned into words and system.  We aren't required to love all, though he claims that Thelema means Agape, and so I assume that we go to war over treating people with a Good Will and love.  We hate those that do not give that.  We fight them for our place as superior.

 

I think when you enter the Abyss, you proclaim your Will and work towards achieving that, but that the struggle with the demons and the effort put forth in finding your Will and law is so exhausting that it neuters you, and so you come out Will-less.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by helpfuldemon

[helpfuldemon]

I think, to paraphrase Crowley, would to put it like this:  Do what thou wilt, and do it with Agape.

[Nungali]

I regret to inform you 'helpfuldemon' that you have been knocked off your perch .

 

It could not last forever , as you know, but you ae no longer Daobums number 1 crazy person / senseless and confused  post writer .

 

It was a long reign ..... I hope you find peace in your retirement .

 

Now, introducing our new contender ..... in the left corner (of the asylum)  .... a big round of applause please , for ....

 

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

I regret to inform you 'helpfuldemon' that you have been knocked off your perch .

 

It could not last forever , as you know, but you ae no longer Daobums number 1 crazy person / senseless and confused  post writer .

 

It was a long reign ..... I hope you find peace in your retirement .

 

Now, introducing our new contender ..... in the left corner (of the asylum)  .... a big round of applause please , for ....

 

 

 

Great!  

 

Now if only someone could come along and knock you out of the #1 troll spot.

[Nungali]

[helpfuldemon]

The Adept Exempt must restructure their soul and philosophical perspective from Chaos.  Choronzon will punish you for this, and destroy what you attempt.  He will assail you with voices giving you new ideas to decide upon, and then torture you for contemplating them.  This is where the adepts previous experience with meditation becomes necessary, for it is the only reprieve from a cruel and merciless God, and He will distract you from your attempts at bringing yourself to a peace of mind.  

 

I had to go on medicine many times to stop the process, which it helped, but never fully conquered.  I can't imagine what it was like before medicine, how people maintained their lives and livelihood.  I stopped many times, but always returned, having taken an oath to aid mankind, I intended to bring about some fruit from the experience.  Now I see that helping mankind is not an easy thing to do when you are disabled by a Demon.  I have little fruits from my experience, for I had to abandon a lot of my contemplations and speculations in order to tame the Demon.  You can imagine how many questions arise in the Abyss; it is the whole world, or as much of it as you can ingest.  You have to sort it all out, starting from Chaos, with what few tools you had that led you to this place of torture.  

 

I've said elsewhere that I believed God was love, and that since God made the world, that the world was love, and it is, to a large degree.  We don't always talk about love, but law and order is based on a certain type of love.  We go about our day expecting a certain way of treatment that is based off of being a loving person.  When we don't get treated that way, it frustrates and angers us, and we either fight, or rebel, or ignore.  Friendship is based off of love, and society is a community of friends.  

 

What I learned was that God is God, and that should He love you, then all the better.  What we mostly get out of the philosophy "God is love", is that we bring ourselves into a loving space, we learn to love ourselves and our higher powers, and we learn to love one another.  

 

The actual God is a mystery.

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

I know what I describe is hard to imagine.  One has to be in pursuit of truth, philosophy and power to experience it.  If you already have these things, you won't find the need to jump into the Abyss.  One has to abandon everything and seek high and low for initiation to find it.  One has to be willing to die for it.

Edited October 4, 2022 by helpfuldemon