Experiments in Weather Magic

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, mcoolio said:

 

Well, kinda

But ...

 

 

Why can this not also work?

 

Its a crazy claim and the onus is on the one making the claim  to prove the claim... not on others to give you evidence for an opposite . 

 

..... like;   weather is caused by a whole lot of interacting systems that has little to do with how individuals feel on a certain day ....

 

Why am I even having to explain this ?

 

 

Oh ... right ...... Daobums  

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Indiken said:

I have some thoughts regarding how people influence the weather,

 

For example, it seems that there was different weather/climate in Republic/Early Imperial Rome and Late Imperial Rome. This idea stems from comparison of Roman infantry armor and clothing.

 

Might it be that Christianity changed people and people changed the weather/climate?

 

maybe .... I will run it past my History Forum  ....  I am sure the guys there have no other explanation for a change in clothing    

 

I can imagine some dull uncomprehending whatever looking at certain isolated facts and coming to 'deep educated opinions' on it .

 

Maybe all that shiny armour reflected the Sun and warmed up the atmosphere , eh ?

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Indiken said:

 

Are you saying that new Age is idiocity itself, or that some of it is idiocity ?

 

Yes.

 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

It seems to me that as the Sun varies its output and the Earth wobbles on its axis, there must be cycles in planetary climates

 

Thats more like it .   Nothing to do with people's 'vibes' .

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

All the climate impacts of human consciousness that I have been near to or part of, were local.

 

yes, it is hard for a human on earth to  be  part of,  or near something ,    that  is   no -local'    

 

 

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I do not exclude planet-wide impacts of consciousness, it is just the causal relationship is harder to test

 

  

 

Oh really ?

 

And how did you 'test'    the local ones ?   By  checking an areas average  facial expression , mode and habits and then  you deciding if that would bring rain or clear weather or wind or hail  ... and then matching them together in your own mind ?

 

Come on ... cough up your ' testing '      'criteria'  

 

 

..... but dont cough too hard .... might cause an earthquake ! 

[mcoolio]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

Its a crazy claim and the onus is on the one making the claim  to prove the claim... not on others to give you evidence for an opposite . 

 

..... like;   weather is caused by a whole lot of interacting systems that has little to do with how individuals feel on a certain day ....

 

Why am I even having to explain this ?

 

 

Oh ... right ...... Daobums  

 

Universe is complex and lot's of things are intertwined. Groups (not individuals) of like minded people with a strong tendency towards certain toughs/emotions/actions, how does this affect their local surroundings? Is there that much difference from magical intent action such as the weather magics? I Dunno ...

 

Plus, from the beginning, I realized that, coming to this forum, better not go into it expecting too much . So I don't care that much if people don't back up their claims (but is always nice of course). Hopefully, eventually, I'll see in my own training what's true or false.

Edited September 17, 2022 by mcoolio

[Lairg]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

And how did you 'test'    the local ones ?  

 

For 50 weeks straight in northern Scotland it never rained on me when working as a tour guide on Sundays.   Often it was raining at 11 am and every time it would stop raining by 1pm so I could take the 2 hour tour completely dry.

 

Where I live now, a local Qi Gung teacher claimed that it never rained on his Saturday morning classes.  My partner attended his classes and it seems he was correct.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Lairg

[Indiken]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

maybe .... I will run it past my History Forum  ....  I am sure the guys there have no other explanation for a change in clothing    

 

I think they have.

 

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

I can imagine some dull uncomprehending whatever looking at certain isolated facts and coming to 'deep educated opinions' on it .

 

I see many educated dull uncomprehending people.

 

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

Maybe all that shiny armour reflected the Sun and warmed up the atmosphere , eh ?

 

There was shiny armor in the Middle Ages, but was it warm as much as in the Republican Rome period?

 

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Ok. Please, say what do you think is "idiocity"? What are the reasons for you to say that new Age is idiocity?

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

For 50 weeks straight in northern Scotland it never rained on me when working as a tour guide on Sundays.   Often it was raining at 11 am and every time it would stop raining by 1pm so I could take the 2 hour tour completely dry.

 

And that has to  with what ?   You where saying that groups and masses of people effect the local weather .... like all the people at Coober Pedy  and the weather there  .   You haven;t even established a base line critera for your 'testing'  , like ;    anger makes storms ... or is sunshine .  Does depression make it windy or does people feeling they have good fortune ?

 

or is it a New Age 'testing' where you decide what feeling or emotion makes which weather appear .... on a whim of your own and that changes case to case ?    But that doesnt matter as the 'test' results  above have nothing to do with your claim .

 

This new one sounds more we are back to  'weather magic'  ... perhaps even what I would call 'Fortuitous Weather Magic ' - happens to me all the time  ......   I plant seedlings , it usually rains .   14 years , out door martial arts training in the park .... rained about 5 times .... then we decided if it rains we will not stop , but go across the river and train under a car park . Since then it rains on Saturday morning the same as any other day might .

 

 

4 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Where I live now, a local Qi Gung teacher claimed that it never rained on his Saturday morning classes.  My partner attended his classes and it seems he was correct.

 

 

Saturday mornings for him too   ... hmmmm ... there  are some other guys that train down the other end of the park .....    

 

 

mumble ....  grumble .... damn Qi Gug guy !,   taking credit for my   fortuitous weather magic  !  

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Indiken said:

 

I think they have.

 

 

I see many educated dull uncomprehending people.

 

 

There was shiny armor in the Middle Ages, but was it warm as much as in the Republican Rome period?

 

 

Ok. Please, say what do you think is "idiocity"? What are the reasons for you to say that new Age is idiocity?

 

Lets start with the concept in general ( the first part of your question  . What do you think people say started or brought this New Age about  ?

[Indiken]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Lets start with the concept in general ( the first part of your question  . What do you think people say started or brought this New Age about  ?

 

New ideas.

[Lairg]

As the Earth moves from the energies of Pisces to those Aquarius there are many changes - with old institutions and beliefs falling away.

 

Some groups of early adapters were called New Agers but there are many groups adapting - and some groups resisting

Edited September 17, 2022 by Lairg

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Indiken said:

 

New ideas.

 

new ideas happen all the time .   There is supposedly a specific AGE marker that makes THIS an 'Age'  with specific energies .

 

Do you understand what I mean ?

[Nungali]

48 minutes ago, Lairg said:

As the Earth moves from the energies of Pisces to those Aquarius there are many changes - with old institutions and beliefs falling away.

 

Some groups of early adapters were called New Agers but there are many groups adapting - and some groups resisting

 

 

Ha har ... you are smart enough to tread carefully here , eh .... I'll give you that .... 'clever' wording !  I do note it needed an edit though   

 

But this specific dialogue I am having with  Indiken ,  since it was him that asked me this question.

[Indiken]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

new ideas happen all the time .   There is supposedly a specific AGE marker that makes THIS an 'Age'  with specific energies .

 

Do you understand what I mean ?

 

No.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Note: I had intended to post these two last Monday (9/12), but other matters came up.  A few days ago I had edited this post some, but when I came back my edits were gone and these bare bones were all that was left.  Right now the "New Age" is being discussed and I have a good post on it from several years ago which I wish to put in, so I am posting these two as they stand and will edit them in place shortly.

 

What I principally wanted to make clear was the basis of my response here:

 

On 9/11/2022 at 4:45 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Just to add some clarity, the notion that: "weather can be quickly changed by changing the consciousness of the local population", was introduced here:

 

On 9/5/2022 at 6:54 PM, Lairg said:

In my experience, weather can be quickly changed by changing the consciousness of the local population.  

 

Large areas are more difficult and for perhaps 50 years there have been weather weapons (earthquakes, volcanoes, droughts etc) - first announced by Khrushchev in terms of weapon able to destroy the planet itself and later by the US Sec of Defense

 

https://redice.tv/news/weather-weapons-have-existed-for-over-15-years-testified-u-s-secretary-of-defense 

 

and with all due respect to the poster, who does claim that this is their experience, is not an approach that i would use, or did use in what I did.  It has all all the appearance of a "New Age" approach to the matter, and I am not a new age practitioner, as any one who has read my posts on magic on Dao Bums for the past thirteen years or so will surely know.  If the above poster has had success with the above approach, good for them, but in terms of my own opinion, is more inline with these posts:

 

On 9/11/2022 at 2:34 PM, Cobie said:

Imo people’s “consciousness” cannot effect the weather.

Because if it was possible, things like e.g. the Great Famine would have been stopped (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315–1317 ).

 

 

 

On 9/11/2022 at 3:25 PM, Nungali said:

I would agree .

 

Any successful result I have had was not  due to my "consciousness"  .

 

I can think of several ways that what the poster first quoted above could be accomplished and if they would care to clarify their position they are welcome to do so.

 

ZYD

 

The Consciousness of ordinary people who are bound by three dimensional sensory experience is largely useless, however the emotions that they can generate are not, because these emotions are manifestations of personal qi, which can be directed and used, groups can form large energy fields under the right circumstances and this energy can be harnessed for various purposes, such a rain making, by someone who knows how to do it.

 

There are ways that individuals can harness their emotions for different purposes and that is a study in itself, and also ways that they can learn to control their consciousness, such as I talk about in the following quote which examines a little more about my model of Human Potential and its possible grounding in a scientific worldview.  This is important to me because, as i have noted elsewhere I was a Science/Magic nerd as a kid and creating non reductionist models, models meant to explain not explain away the possibility of mystical and magical experiences has been a very real part of my research over the years.  I hope that the following is interesting and thought provoking:

 

On 3/11/2016 at 7:22 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Quote

In mathematical physics, Minkowski space or Minkowski spacetime is a combination of Euclidean space and time into a four-dimensional manifold where the spacetime interval between any two events is independent of the inertial frame of reference in which they are recorded. Although initially developed by mathematician Hermann Minkowski for Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism, the mathematical structure of Minkowski spacetime was shown to be an immediate consequence of the postulates of special relativity. (Wikipedia on Minkowski Space, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 
Space/time is our ordinary awareness in which there is one dimension of time and three of space, however no coherent model of matter and motion can be created within space/time, but it requires the introduction of the notion of at least four dimensional space, to even begin to make sense of the world.  Also, as the quote says, this was originally developed for Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism and then applied to special relativity, indicated that the matter energy equivalence usually attributed to Einstein and Special Relativity was already implicit in Maxwell's equations (Einstein's two 1905 papers that deal with this were basically papers dealing with electrodynamics, so this is no surprise.).
 
In my interpretation of this I view space/time as broken symmetry of four dimensional spacetime which results in space/time, matter/energy, and more importantly for us here, body/mind, in which a fundamental four dimensional unity is experienced as a body with consciousness in it, and that meditation states are those in which awareness is regained of this four dimensional "being", which is what we truly are, in Daoist terms, experiencing "sitting and forgetting" our Body/mind to experience our real nature in wuji.

 

Someone who is experiencing "wuji" would be experience the "causal" level of the elemental level, much like the akasha training which Franz Bardon gives in his book Initiation into Hermetics.  A book and author that were very influential on me in the late Sixties, though I moved on to the greener pastures of the Golden Dawn magical system starting in the Seventies.

 

I had originally made more changes to this that, as I said got lost, but I just want to get this posted rather than having it hang over my head and these were the most important things to note.

 

ZYD

Edited September 19, 2022 by Zhongyongdaoist
I posted this in an incomplete form, and this finishes it.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

In its modern form the "New Age" burst on the world stage, quite literally, in the late Sixties:

 

On 9/11/2020 at 11:11 AM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

On 9/10/2020 at 5:50 PM, Earl Grey said:

By the way, New Age is based off of New Philosophy from the 1960s and a bastardized version of Blavatsky’s work:

 

Quote

Birth Of The Movement

In 1970 American theosophist David Spangler moved to the Findhorn Foundation, where he developed the fundamental idea of the New Age movement. He believed that the release of new waves of spiritual energy, signaled by certain astrological changes (e.g., the movement of the Earth into a new cycle known as the Age of Aquarius), had initiated the coming of the New Age. He further suggested that people use this new energy to make manifest the New Age. Spangler’s view was in stark contrast to that of Bailey and her followers, who believed that the new era would arrive independent of human actions. Spangler’s perspective demanded an active response and shifted the responsibility for the coming of the New Age to those who believed in it.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/New-Age-movement

 

Wow, I never thought I could be so disgusted with the Encyclopedia Britannica, but this is a completer oversimplification and the meme "New Age" was in relatively common usage by 1970, when I first encountered it in a New Thought context.  David Spangler only became will known because there was already a large audience for his ideas.  Focusing on Theosophy is also a considerable oversimplification, there are many other influences that contribute to it especially New Thought and Ernest Holmes in particular, though it context as a "New Age" is provided by speculations from Esoteric Astrology that were a rising trend of the Nineteenth Century.

 

The New Age was the "Age of Aquarius", popularized by a song from the 1967 musical "Hair", which was in turn popularized by the group The 5th Dimension as a medley "Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In".  Here are the lyrics to Aquarius:

 

Quote

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
Age of Aquarius
Aquarius
Aquarius

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius
Aquarius

The 5th Dimension - Aquarius Lyrics

 

There is your "New Age" in a nutshell including crystals and superficial astrology.

 

I could write a lot about this, because I both witnessed it as it was unfolding and was a critical observer of what was going on.  I also am familiar with almost all of the strands that contributed to it.  It's basically treacly junk food for for the "soul", you're better off with good old fashioned Chicken Soup.

 

On a lighter and "Chinese" note,I am reminded of this:

 

 

I guess I really can't put that in without letting the Fifth Dimension speak for themselves:

 

 

ZYD

 

For its more complex background the Widipedia article is very informative.

 

This is very off topic and if you wish to discuss it further, please open your own topic for the -discussion.

 

ZYD

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Indiken said:

 

No.

 

I rest my case then .

 

( Dude that supports 'New Age' doesnt even know what it is supposed to be .  

[Nungali]

.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Nungali

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

This is very off topic and if you wish to discuss it further, please open your own topic for the -discussion.

 

ZYD

 

 

I agree . 

 

- Still no rain here , one time a light brief night rain . The next lot of rain prediction was also cancelled .  A stable high has moved in.

 

 

 

We have some rotation ( which causes an east west 'draw in' of cloud /moisture further north towards the equator ) but this is more localised and does not appear to be extending far enough east to effect west coast  weather systems of USA .

 

https://zoom.earth/#view=44.8,-150.7,4z/map=live

 

Also, predictions here are for a 3rd El Nina in a row - VERY rare .  It shutdown late winter and we told it would start up in spring  and  go , again, through another summer .  

 

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/

 

Which means good spring rain ... but where is it ?  Maybe it is to come  - it is 'normal' to get a spring flood here -  and often Mother Nature does it on the upcoming ( 2 weeks away ) long weekend ... just to tease the tourists   .

 

Rain predicted here all week ,  that may or may not happen, but these are localised events.... unless it continues to a 'wet' ( El Nina )  .  The info  'enso' in above  2nd link is more of an indication of  El Nino / La Nina  and any long term relief for  USA drought .

Edited September 18, 2022 by Nungali

[helpfuldemon]

All Magick is suspect.  A New Age?  Who is to say?  Weather magic?  How do we know?  The point is to try if you like.  Be careful not to go insane.

[helpfuldemon]

We don't know what powers we possess.  It is safe to say we have none, for the rest of it is unknown.  We also don't know what the Gods will do, whether they hear our cries, or what they do on their own.  It's all suspect.  Thinking too much about it or trying to prove it leads to madness.

[Zork]

On 9/17/2022 at 1:05 AM, Indiken said:

I have some thoughts regarding how people influence the weather,

 

For example, it seems that there was different weather/climate in Republic/Early Imperial Rome and Late Imperial Rome. This idea stems from comparison of Roman infantry armor and clothing.

 

Might it be that Christianity changed people and people changed the weather/climate?

The climate was different at various points in history. Google the "Medieval warm period" and "Small ice age".

There is no correlation between Christianity and climate. The deforestation of the North African jungles and the loss of the Great African Lakes like the Megalake Chad happened before Christianity was even a concept.

[Zork]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:32 AM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

I have just finished the first major weather spell in what I hope will relieve the Drought and excess heat in the Southwest of the United States.  I hope I will not have made a fool of myself by posting on this here, but I have had success breaking droughts before and doing some weather magic on a smaller scale, and I hope that success can be scaled up for the sake of the lives of millions of people who will otherwise suffer terribly.

 

ZYD

It is good that you are willing to help but isn't the drought sometimes caused by the heavens being disgusted with the ethics of mortals? Drought, plague etc IIRC according to Daoists happen because people act out of the natural order.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Hello Zork, thank you for your contributions:

 

10 hours ago, Zork said:

The climate was different at various points in history. Google the "Medieval warm period" and "Small ice age".

There is no correlation between Christianity and climate. The deforestation of the North African jungles and the loss of the Great African Lakes like the Megalake Chad happened before Christianity was even a concept.

 

10 hours ago, Zork said:

It is good that you are willing to help but isn't the drought sometimes caused by the heavens being disgusted with the ethics of mortals? Drought, plague etc IIRC according to Daoists happen because people act out of the natural order.

 

They are good topics for general discussion, but I do have time right now to engage in general discussion and must put my time where I believe it will have the most benefit.

 

ZYD

 

 

P.S. For anyone who may be interested I finished editing an incomplete post that I had post yesterday a few posts above this one.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Zhongyongdaoist

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Zork said:

It is good that you are willing to help but isn't the drought sometimes caused by the heavens being disgusted with the ethics of mortals? Drought, plague etc IIRC according to Daoists happen because people act out of the natural order.

 

Well, to make the  weather like it has been ,  people must be REALLY out of the natural order nowadays  ..... do you think so ?