-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- Posted October 17, 2022 14 hours ago, EFreethought said: A big, burly monk came up to me, with tears in his eyes, he had never cried before in his life. "Sir", he said - he had never called anybody "Sir" before. "Sir, there are a bunch of Buddhist dropouts on the Dao Bums bad-mouthing the amazing Bruce Frantzis." I logged into the Dao Bums, and I asked my beautiful daughter to read the posts to me. The things people had written. It was a travesty, let me tell you. Sad! I turned to masters who had been meditating for decades. I said, "Kundalini, seeker, monk, nun, enlightenment". They were amazed. They asked me, "How did you do that? Nobody has ever done that before." I told them how smart I was. You see, my uncle was a master in Seattle. He pleased a woman in a diner once. He was Bruce Lee's real teacher, not that loser Yip Girl, most people do not know that. Bruce is a wonderful friend of mine. He and I have a great time with the ladies, believe me. Many people are saying it, and they are saying it very strongly. Big if true 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajra Fist Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, 鞏三孝 said: If you listen to the first 50% of the interview you will know your ears a blessed with the tongue of a master! Holy fuck I need to listen to this properly now. Except perhaps with a different set of expectations. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, EFreethought said: Now for a more serious answer. I heard from my qigong instructor that BF seriously injured a few people's knees at some tai chi groups in Taiwan. BF's response was that if they are martial artists they should expect that sort of thing. I never studied his Taiji but if I remember correctly his Wuji posture for Qigong contains the classic 'bend the knees' instruction, which I later learned was the source of budding tension in the area (but I was 21 at the time so nbd easy to reverse, probably less so for longer term students or older folks though). Edit: but now that I'm thinking about I seem to remember a lot of postural cautions as well i.e. don't let your knees go past your toes in movement - so there were definitely checks for this sort of thing, and maybe my own issue was one of the outcomes of online instruction but it still took refining the instruction to 'Release the pelvis TO bend the knees' (from another teacher) before I could sink the mass below the knees. Edited October 17, 2022 by Wilhelm 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Vajra Fist said: Edit: freeform and shadow_self already said this more succinctly Edited October 17, 2022 by Wilhelm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) Deleted re https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/54046-bruce-frantzis-interview/?do=findComment&comment=991843 Edited October 18, 2022 by Cobie 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted October 18, 2022 It's YOU the problem not BK Frantzis. If you don't like something or hate/dislike something or someone then examine yourself in order to introduce a change so that aspect of your material reality will eventually vanish in its own accord. The external is purely an expression of your inner reality. Reincarnational Relationships - "Seth Speaks," by Jane Roberts 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted October 18, 2022 24 minutes ago, Gerard said: It's YOU the problem not BK Frantzis. If you don't like something or hate/dislike something or someone then examine yourself in order to introduce a change so that aspect of your material reality will eventually vanish in its own accord. The external is purely an expression of your inner reality. Reincarnational Relationships - "Seth Speaks," by Jane Roberts Right, we’re the problem, not animal abusers, pedophiles, warmongers, and so on. Frantzis is problematic and it’s “our” fault according to you. Surgeon general’s warning: solipsism is dangerous for your health and everyone else’s sanity. 6 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) Deleted re https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/54046-bruce-frantzis-interview/?do=findComment&comment=991843 Edited October 18, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
鞏三孝 Posted October 18, 2022 12 hours ago, Cobie said: Ha, ha. This BF guy clearly is a fantasist, because these 2 (“Greek Catholicism” and “Orthodox church in Greece”) are different churches. Reveal hidden contents Rome split of (the great schism of 1054). Two of the main differences: Pope Greek Orthodoxy believes Christianity is ruled by a collection of Patriarchs. Greek Catholicism believes the Pope is the head of Christianity. Filioque Greek Orthodoxy believes the Holy Spirit comes from the Father alone. Greek Catholicism believes the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and the Son. Oh no I think this is my mistaken understanding.......in the history of Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholicism I thought they are synonyms. He did not say he is a big deal in Catholicism......."only" said his family a big deal in the Orthodox church. Sorry!! Today heard some more: he is also a master of the stock market and high level poker gambling! Hiked in the himalayas (including Mt Everest) in flip flops and T-shirt! Quite entertaining but also a bit crazy. He has a story about a woman who was being raped by 100 or 1000 men. Lots of his stories are lots of violence, sex, sex+violence. I think we can divide his numbers all by 10 or 100 and maybe he has some reality in his stories. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 鞏三孝 said: … my mistaken understanding.......Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholicism I thought they are synonyms. … Sorry!! No worries, it happens. I will delete my posts. Edited October 18, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) On 17/10/2022 at 12:21 PM, 鞏三孝 said: Advaita Vedanta (he invented this method on his own...meditating for two hours a day as a boy..."I heard Maharashi was kind of a big deal in India") Chan Buddhism ("I even became a Chan Master for awhile") Jiu Jitsu Aikido Karate (the US government kidnapped him in Japan and forced him to teach a suicide squad???) Some secret Japanese Taoist priest sect? (So much a secret it hasn't any name) Pranayama Yoga Kriya Yoga (1 year locked in cave in India) … ("me and my grandfather are a big deal in the Orthodox church in Greece.......") I-Kuan-Tao (inside of this: Fighting to the death or maiming enemies too many times to count Having sex with more than 1000 women (luckily in Scandinavia different women brought him for sex every day!!!) Taoist ritual (bit strange because I-Kuan-Tao is different than Taoism but close enough hmm) (never heard in Taiwan that I-Kuan-Tao is a fighting and sex ninja cult but okay, these are the deeeeep secrets) Taoist Nei-dan (one time meditated for one week without moving?) Tai chi chuan (Can cure disease worse than hepatitis but it is called hepatitits) Pa kua chang Hsing Yi Chuan Dzogchen … 40 minutes ago, 鞏三孝 said: … he is also a master of the stock market and high level poker gambling! Hiked in the himalayas … Jack of all trades, master of none. Edited October 18, 2022 by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) On 10/17/2022 at 6:21 PM, 鞏三孝 said: If you listen to the first 50% of the interview you will know your ears a blessed with the tongue of a master! Of: Advaita Vedanta (he invented this method on his own...meditating for two hours a day as a boy..."I heard Maharashi was kind of a big deal in India") Chan Buddhism ("I even became a Chan Master for awhile") Jiu Jitsu Aikido Karate (the US government kidnapped him in Japan and forced him to teach a suicide squad???) Some secret Japanese Taoist priest sect? (So much a secret it hasn't any name) Pranayama Yoga Kriya Yoga (1 year locked in cave in India) Greek Catholicism ("me and my grandfather are a big deal in the Orthodox church in Greece.......") I-Kuan-Tao (inside of this: Fighting to the death or maiming enemies too many times to count Having sex with more than 1000 women (luckily in Scandinavia different women brought him for sex every day!!!) Taoist ritual (bit strange because I-Kuan-Tao is different than Taoism but close enough hmm) (never heard in Taiwan that I-Kuan-Tao is a fighting and sex ninja cult but okay, these are the deeeeep secrets) Taoist Nei-dan (one time meditated for one week without moving?) Tai chi chuan (Can cure disease worse than hepatitis but it is called hepatitits) Pa kua chang Hsing Yi Chuan Dzogchen Did I miss anything??? Stay online for the second 1/2 of the interview!!!! So I was a little bit surprised he wasn't this man when I checked on his photo: Even more he pushed a Turkish soldier from a locomotive at a top speed because the soldier was going to rape him, while other soldiers are raping 'everybody in the train', something to do with the Ottoman empire? And the other soldiers didnt shoot him? On 10/17/2022 at 7:49 PM, freeform said: Frantzis is exhibiting the tell-tale results of practicing an ‘incomplete’ system. I’ve seen this over and over again… People training some genuine methods and becoming complete caricatures of a human being. Gary Clyman is the other well known one. Yes if you increase qi, but have no character development or spiritual connection, you become… a douchebag It’s very common! I’ve seen it LOTS in Asia. People turn into these weird pompous characters that get obsessed by sex, money and status. But not even in a sophisticated way - in like an over excited teenage boy on cocaine sort of way. It’s kinda funny to see actually. Often have this spiritual or mystical persona that’s completely and very obviously ruled by this Dan Bilzerian wannabe lifestyle. (some of the popular and well known teachers in Asia are (or also were) like this too… though it’s easier to hide this aspect to foreigners) I don’t know his level of skill… (though it has to be said that there’s almost nothing ‘internal’ in Taiji competitions in Asia… just a weirdly un-athletic stand-up wrestling). What matters to me, personally is inner development - transformation of oneself into one’s original spiritual nature… What happens with incomplete systems is the opposite - powered-up devolution into one’s base nature. 6 hours ago, 鞏三孝 said: Oh no I think this is my mistaken understanding.......in the history of Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholicism I thought they are synonyms. He did not say he is a big deal in Catholicism......."only" said his family a big deal in the Orthodox church. Sorry!! Today heard some more: he is also a master of the stock market and high level poker gambling! Hiked in the himalayas (including Mt Everest) in flip flops and T-shirt! Quite entertaining but also a bit crazy. He has a story about a woman who was being raped by 100 or 1000 men. Lots of his stories are lots of violence, sex, sex+violence. I think we can divide his numbers all by 10 or 100 and maybe he has some reality in his stories. 5 hours ago, Cobie said: Jack of all trades, master of none. Even with the stories I know of him being an abhorrent person, these self-aggrandizing claims remind me of a particular kind of con artist I’ve encountered before. Yes, I’ve met internal workers (not artists) who make grandiose claims but can’t back it up. They remind me of homeless bums who talk about how great they are and how nobody can recognize it. Frantzis has now crossed into this territory of con artist, pathological liar, megalomaniac, and insecure bully. People continue to follow him in spite of what is known and only quote from members here who praised him without realizing these members are hardly realized or developed internally to make these appraisals. Edited October 18, 2022 by Earl Grey 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Earl Grey said: Even with the stories I know if him being an abhorrent person, these self-aggrandizing claims remind me of a particular kind of con artist I’ve encountered before. Yes, I’ve met internal workers (not artists) who make grandiose claims but can’t back it up. They remind me of homeless bums who talk about how great they are and how nobody can recognize it. Frantzis has now crossed into this territory of con artist, pathological liar, megalomaniac, and insecure bully. People continue to follow him in spite of what is known and only quote from members here who praised him without realizing these members are hardly realized or developed internally to make these appraisals. Steven Seagal attained the highest rank in Aikido (7th dan) almost overnight, but that rank was only given to a few teachers that were sent to the West by OSensei. I met two at an Aikido camp at Hampshire College and I can personally say, both were not to be trifled with. I have no knowledge if either one served in the Japanese military during the war, but the week long experience was a short introduction to budo, that I will never forget. Either one of the two would dispose of BK and Seagal in short order. Edited October 18, 2022 by ralis 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted October 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, ralis said: Steven Seagal attained the highest rank in Aikido (7th dan) almost overnight, but that rank was only given to a few teachers that were sent to the West by OSensei. I met two at an Aikido camp at Hampshire College and I can personally say, both were not to be trifled with. I have no knowledge if either one served in the Japanese military during the war, but the week long experience was a short introduction to budo, that I will never forget. Either one of the two would dispose of BK and Seagal in short order. Steve is a jerk and bully too. Anyone who had worked with him talks about trying to show off and basically setting rules he doesn’t follow then thinking he’s tough. This is a common martial arts bully tactic: tell people not to punch in the face, but you punch their face. Tell them to defend against your punch and then you kick them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted October 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Earl Grey said: Steve is a jerk and bully too. Anyone who had worked with him talks about trying to show off and basically setting rules he doesn’t follow then thinking he’s tough. This is a common martial arts bully tactic: tell people not to punch in the face, but you punch their face. Tell them to defend against your punch and then you kick them. He was hanging around Santa Fe years ago and was authorized to teach Dzogchen at the highest level. It is widely known that he gave a Tibetan Lama money so that he could teach Dzogchen at the highest level as well as being recognized as a reincarnate Tulku. All fake stuff! 1 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) On 17/10/2022 at 12:21 PM, 鞏三孝 said: … me [BF] …. a big deal in the Orthodox church in Greece...... Really? Spoiler In orthodoxy, humility is the root of all virtues and pride the cause of all sin. Edited October 18, 2022 by Cobie 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted October 18, 2022 At this point just to be a contrarian (having no counterargument to any of the points raised so far) I'm going to say that I believe Bruce provides an above average education in the foundations of Qigong (though I think it's fair to say that the bar isn't particularly high). Having started on the foundations of Nei Dan through another system I do wonder how he manages it without (as far as I know) being able to sit cross legged (I could be mistaken here I've just always seen him instruct in chairs and recommend chairs). 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Earl Grey said: Right, we’re the problem, not animal abusers, pedophiles, warmongers, and so on. Frantzis is problematic and it’s “our” fault according to you. If you are in peace with your inner reality, you won't see animal abusers, pedophiles, warmongers... I don't see a problem with BK Frantzis. He is just a teacher! 师傅领进门，修行在个人 Shīfù lǐng jìnmén, xiūxíng zài gèrén The master teaches the trade, but the perfection of the apprentice’s skill depends on his own efforts. I didn't like very much my real life teacher either but everything I have attained is the result of my OWN EFFORT. Never lose sight of the Buddha's Noble Eightfold Path: Right Understanding Right Thought Right Speech Right Action Right Livelihood Right Effort Right Mindfulness Right Concentration You don't like BKF? Be better than him. Edited October 19, 2022 by Gerard 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted October 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, Gerard said: If you are in peace with your inner reality, you won't see animal abusers, pedophiles, warmongers... I don't see a problem with BK Frantzis. He is just a teacher! 师傅领进门，修行在个人 Shīfù lǐng jìnmén, xiūxíng zài gèrén The master teaches the trade, but the perfection of the apprentice’s skill depends on his own efforts. I didn't like very much my real life teacher either but everything I have attained is the result of my OWN EFFORT. Never lose sight of the Buddha's Noble Eightfold Path: Right Understanding Right Thought Right Speech Right Action Right Livelihood Right Effort Right Mindfulness Right Concentration You don't like BKF? Be better than him. Solipsism. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFreethought Posted October 19, 2022 15 minutes ago, Gerard said: If you are in peace with your inner reality, you won't see animal abusers, pedophiles, warmongers... NARRATOR VOICE: All Ukrainian members of this board are currently busy and unable to comment at this time. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted October 19, 2022 3 hours ago, EFreethought said: NARRATOR VOICE: All Ukrainian members of this board are currently busy and unable to comment at this time. And Uyghurs and Tibetans in their concentration camps don’t exist because not only do we not see them, they’re being hidden from us. Out of sight? Out of mind? Good New Age bookstore Buddhist with Om tattoos subscribed to some macrobiotic recipe channel on YouTube! Enlightened because we bury our heads in the sand and everything is fine until someone dongchims us (https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/travel-old/153374/dong-chim-is-the-bizarre-south-korean-game-where-children-are-allowed-to-poke-you-in-the-bum/) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mandrake Posted October 19, 2022 Lots of good previous comments here. I too have interacted with some of BKF's students, and some of those have been among the upper awesomer scale of people I've encountered. The system has worked really well for them, and it's not only a matter of shuffling feelings around or imagining/contriving things. I just want to add: Years back, a student of his was on the lookout for other masters in the same lineage. The reason was that Liu Hongjie didn't impart the advanced stages to Bruce, those that would have lead to immortality. Whether that was a deliberate choice of Hongjie's or was a matter of there not being enough time before his departing, I don't know. The instruction and theory alone would have required three years full-time with him. From what I gather form above and BKF's early literature, is that the the parts he was transmitted had the aim of taking an ordinary person to a harmonious, normal state from where she could progress to the spiritual. That included removing emotional and mental afflictions and traumas, and training the physical and energetic bodies into fit vessels. That stronger focus and direct debate on getting rid of emotional and psychological garbage is something unfortunately lacking and ignored in most Eastern lineages. Could be a reason the system gained ground in the West--no matter what Bruce himself displays, accomplished etc. M 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- Posted October 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Wilhelm said: Having started on the foundations of Nei Dan through another system I do wonder how he manages it without (as far as I know) being able to sit cross legged (I could be mistaken here I've just always seen him instruct in chairs and recommend chairs). This made me lol. I went from not being able to sit cross legged comfortably to being able to half lotus in a few months. Just doing daily practice will make you more flexible over time. Unless your legs are messed up from injury or had practice that is. Maybe that’s the case for him? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mandrake Posted October 19, 2022 11 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said: This made me lol. I went from not being able to sit cross legged comfortably to being able to half lotus in a few months. Just doing daily practice will make you more flexible over time. Unless your legs are messed up from injury or had practice that is. Maybe that’s the case for him? He was in a car accident which messed up his spine, and I guess pelvis. M 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- Posted October 20, 2022 10 hours ago, Mandrake said: He was in a car accident which messed up his spine, and I guess pelvis. M Thanks for the info! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
