doc benway Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, freeform said: Once ChiDragon sent out a video of himself ‘practicing Zhang Zhuang’… Everyone here was a bit confused coz the video was showing how he could almost (but not quite) balance by standing on a plank placed on a couple of bricks. Turns out he did a direct translation of Zhang Zhuang… which comes out as something like post-standing or plank-standing. So that’s what he thought this practice is all about 🤦♂️ He was quite the character! I enjoyed his enthusiasm and fearlessness but it is also good to know one’s limitations! 🙃 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Mango said: Okay! So, by your definition, he was not balanced even though he was trying to maintain standing on the plank by his rocking motion. Do you expect him to fall off without trying to stay on the plank? Haha no - the issue is that Zhan Zhuang has nothing to do with planks. Its like if someone said “hang on a second” and as wise dude you went and started to hang off a clock. ZZ is a standing practice that develops various qualities for Taiji and Neigong - it’s ‘standing like a pole’ because you stand up straight like a pole… not because you stand on poles or on planks 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) On 26/10/2022 at 9:44 AM, Cobie said: Do you [Shadow_self] live in Burma? Have you actually had a chat with one of these people? The answer to both questions was ‘no’. Edited October 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) On 26/10/2022 at 9:33 AM, Cobie said: What (according to you [Shadow_self]) is the human ‘mind’? @Shadow_self Feel free to start a new thread to answer this question. Edited October 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Posted October 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, freeform said: ZZ is a standing practice that develops various qualities for Taiji and Neigong - it’s ‘standing like a pole’ because you stand up straight like a pole… not because you stand on poles or on planks I see that was your argument. Standing like a straight pole on a slanting plank was the ability acquired from Taiji. The ZZ part has been accomplished already. ZZ is to make the legs strong. To balance on something needs strong legs. I believe the demo was to show his ability to perform with a high degree of difficulty. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blue eyed snake Posted October 27, 2022 now that reminds me of plumflower piles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mango said: I see that was your argument. Standing like a straight pole on a slanting plank was the ability acquired from Taiji. The ZZ part has been accomplished already. ZZ is to make the legs strong. To balance on something needs strong legs. I believe the demo was to show his ability to perform with a high degree of difficulty. ChiDragon’s back, 😁 Nice to see you again! 2 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Posted October 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said: now that reminds me of plumflower piles Thanks! This showed his ability to perform. He cannot be discredited for not doing ZZ because he was not in the ZZ position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Cobie said: Rather, “if people only knew” to read the characters. Because if you don’t, you do not know what the DDJ says. The Dao de Jing is not a literal text...never was. Reading the characters means little except you know how to translate Chinese to English. Its still encoded Do you know how to decipher the practices embedded by those who put it together? No? If not, then unfortunately you don't know what it says. You know what they wanted to give to the masses, The reason I posted that quote, was freeform would know exactly what it means, in terms of alchemy. If you are grasping at external words and literal translations., Then sadly you'll be forever in the fog on this. 49 minutes ago, Cobie said: The answer to both questions was ‘no’. If only you knew how close that region of the world is to me There are several people on here that do, those who are friends. Those who know quite serious, intimate details about my life.. Some of them are in this thread Im not about to share them on a publicly searchable message board, to a stranger. If you truly wanted to know the answers to these questions, you'd have sent me a PM. You don't actually want to know, so what would be the point? So its not that the answer to either question is not no... The answer, honestly, is you haven't demonstrated a manner or attitude to which I am comfortable sharing personal details with you. And that's pretty telling, because people PM me all the time. I am more than willing to share or be helpful where possible. I am saying this nicely now. Do not ask me personal details please...you are touching a VERY sore spot for a reason you don't know, so I'm being cognisant of that fact. Here's the closest thing you will get to an answer I should be in that area of the world right now. For reasons beyond my control I cannot be. Id give anything to be there right now, and that has nothing to do with teachers or practices at all Now drop it and do not ask me about my location again please 46 minutes ago, Cobie said: @Shadow_self Feel free to start a new thread to answer this question. Why would I start a thread to engage in a conversation I don't particularly want to? I think have had my buttons pushed far enough with that last response thank you If you want the answer to that question...ask someone else please 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, steve said: ChiDragon is a self-taught taiji and qigong practitioner. He considers himself an authority on both subjects based on his translations of Chinese source material. His ideas and interpretations are literal and practical but his lack of any guidance or instruction results in limited and often mis- understanding. It was not self-taught. He did learn it from a Yang Taiji master (Mary Chu). This is a portion of the original 108 forms which you don't see around anymore for some reason. Edited October 28, 2022 by Mango Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master Logray Posted October 28, 2022 I recall ChiDragon now. Used to admire his house. His ZZ on a wooden structure is not from Taichi. Mostly from external martial arts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted October 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Master Logray said: I recall ChiDragon now. Used to admire his house. His ZZ on a wooden structure is not from Taichi. Mostly from external martial arts. Balancing on a wooden board and claiming it ZZ and arguing everyone else is wrong. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted October 28, 2022 9 hours ago, steve said: ChiDragon’s back, 😁 Nice to see you again! I did think… the conversation was circling in an odd direction… now it all makes sense Welcome back ChiDragon 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Master Logray said: I recall ChiDragon now. Used to admire his house. I actually admired his house as well on several occasions Seems like a peaceful place 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Master Logray said: I recall ChiDragon now. Used to admire his house. His ZZ on a wooden structure is not from Taichi. Mostly from external martial arts. I just practice the Yang-style Taiji all my life. I did not practice other martial arts. My legs are strong from the diligent practice of Yang-style Taiji. If one has noticed, the Yang style was known to have the legs bent at all times. Thus every time one lifts up one leg slowly, the weight of the body is supported by the other. To me, that was understood it is equivalent to ZZ in some way. ZZ stands on the floor or ground with both legs. IMO To make the legs stronger, standing on one leg is much more effective than two legs. However, both conditions give the same result. What do you all think? Edited October 28, 2022 by Mango Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Mango said: … Yang Taiji master (Mary Chu). … Found her in this listing. https://www.thetaichiclub.co.uk/articles/why-so-many-yang-styles … Chu Gin Soon (1932 - ) Chu King-hung (1939- ) Europe Chu, Mary Chung Yan-Man, Raymond Y. M. (1913 - ) Vancouver, Canada … Edited October 28, 2022 by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-_sometimes Posted October 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Mango said: I just practice the Yang-style Taiji all my life. I did not practice other martial arts. My legs are strong from the diligent practice of Yang-style Taiji. If one has noticed, the Yang style was known to have the legs bent at all times. Thus every time one lifts up one leg slowly, the weight of the body is supported by the other. To me, that was understood it is equivalent to ZZ in some way. ZZ stands on the floor or ground with both legs. IMO To make the legs stronger, standing on one leg is much more effective than two legs. However, both conditions give the same result. What do you all think? Isn't the whole point of zhan zhuang and similar standing practices to prepare the body for more subtle training? The posture is used to transform the body, to make it appropriate and ready for the training of the particular system, no? Depending on the system, slightly different versions of wuji are used, to sculpt a body most appropriate to that particular system. Are you saying the purpose of wuji is to build strong legs? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) On 28/10/2022 at 1:41 AM, Shadow_self said: … Dao de Jing … encoded … Yeah, let’s go for a ‘yes, it is’ / ‘no, it isn’t’ contest. Edited October 29, 2022 by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, -_sometimes said: Isn't the whole point of zhan zhuang and similar standing practices to prepare the body for more subtle training? The posture is used to transform the body, to make it appropriate and ready for the training of the particular system, no? Depending on the system, slightly different versions of wuji are used, to sculpt a body most appropriate to that particular system. Are you saying the purpose of wuji is to build strong legs? Yes, it is true to practice ZZ to prepare the body for more subtle training. What I am saying it wouldn't be a prerequisite for Taiji but it would help. Yes, I am saying that the purpose of wuji is to build strong legs more than anything else. If one has practiced ZZ for some time, one should have felt the strength of the legs change drastically. Edited October 28, 2022 by Mango Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, Shadow_self said: … Why would I start a thread … ? … Because you posted this: On 25/10/2022 at 8:56 PM, Shadow_self said: … Mercury is human mind. … And this: On 26/10/2022 at 10:11 AM, Shadow_self said: A discussion for another thread … Edited October 28, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Cobie said: Tear jerking. No info. You do not deserve, nor are you entitled to personal information from my life (Despite the fact id probably have given you enough to understand if you'd been civil and went about it the right way) You could have PM'd me if you wanted it if you were truly interested. You had no problem to do so when you wanted me to do something for you. Instead you chose to make a cheeky, unnecessary, insulting, hurtful comment about a situation you were told about is extremely difficult Do not engage me, do not ask me another question We're done now You don't even deserve the basic level of respect I offer everyone after the comment you just made. Edited October 28, 2022 by Shadow_self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted October 28, 2022 25 minutes ago, Mango said: I am saying that the purpose of wuji is to build strong legs more than anything else. I think theres a bit of a misunderstanding here...who told you this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) What interests me is if there is a difference between On 25/10/2022 at 8:33 PM, Cobie said: … mercury (silvery-)white - crown chakra/heaven and On 25/10/2022 at 8:56 PM, Shadow_self said: … Mercury is human mind. … The first question then for me is, what does “mind” mean according to the above quoted poster? What is the “mind”? Edited October 28, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Cobie said: … What is the “mind”? Is it purely a brain function? To stop at death. Or is it independent of the brain? Might it survive death? Edited October 28, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: I think theres a bit of a misunderstanding here...who told you this? In ZZ, wuji is the standing position. No? It doesn't need to be told. Do you have any experience in ZZ? Edited October 28, 2022 by Mango Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
