This is why Love is the Law.

[helpfuldemon]

Love is more than just an emotion.  In the beginning of life, we love, and are given care, which helps us to feel safe.  Then comes desire, and then the mind, which calculates ways to acquire what we desire.  When we see that loving action gets us what we want, we realize a greater love:  a love for our fellow human beings.  We eventually realize that they are just like us, and that we live in a society that must co-operate to reach civilization.  

 

When we aren't approached with love, we feel strife.  We find conflict and get angered.  We feel we are treated unjustly.  This is why Love is the Law.

[Daniel]

Love is just one law.  Love in extreme becomes obsession.  Love in the right time, in the right place, with the right people, in the right quantity is healthy.  Lacking any one of those is a recipe for harm; to oneself or others.  This indicates that restraint is the higher law compared to love. 

 

Everything in moderation is a true axiom.  Everything incudes love.  Moderation *is* restraint.  Restraint is the higher law.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

I don't mean to say to love intensely is the way to go.  I mean that as we mature, we become emotionally intelligent, and love becomes kindness, and generosity.  It isn't just being polite, either.  To love is to be genuine, to listen, and to have compassion.  

[Daniel]

All of that is true of love in the right conditions.  In the wrong conditions other less favorable things occur.  As long as there are conditions, then the conditions are the higher law.

[Lairg]

In the Hindu tradition the first version of this solar system was to learn energy and intelligence.

 

This second version is to learn right relationship - reflected in the human concept of love.  Hence the expression: Our god is (for now) a god of love. 

 

When right relationship is strong enough to hold groups together under great pressure we will be ready for the third (last?) version which will learn Intent/Will

 

So most humans are learning to love while some are still working with intelligent energy, and a very few (dangerous) humans are learning Will

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Lairg

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

All of that is true of love in the right conditions.  In the wrong conditions other less favorable things occur.  As long as there are conditions, then the conditions are the higher law.

 

Love is the Law is a personal axiom.  Of course it's not everyone's law, but if it were, imagine what a beautiful world we would have.

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

 

When right relationship is strong enough to hold groups together under great pressure we will be ready for the third (last?) version which will learn Intent/Will

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Will to love IS the final interpretation of life.  There is no greater intention.

[Lairg]

9 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

The Will to love IS the final interpretation of life. 

 

It is good that humans are able to make final interpretations.

 

Personally I am inclined to wait a bit.  It may be that other galaxies have other views.

[helpfuldemon]

I mean, what would be your Will after you found the Will to love?  What is next?  The Will to freedom?  The Will to do?  Could be, but if you master the Will to love, then you will always love, and so, it is the final revelation, in a sense.

[Lairg]

37 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

What is next? 

This is a profound question that is not easy to answer from logic.

 

Perhaps the Mahapralaya is relevant

 

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

22 hours ago, Daniel said:

All of that is true of love in the right conditions.  In the wrong conditions other less favorable things occur.  As long as there are conditions, then the conditions are the higher law.

Chaos is the True Law, it is the center, and it is God.  As Chaos expands, it finds order, and at the farthest/highest reaches of the Heavens, there is Order.

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

Chaos is the True Law,

 

To what is the chaos law true?  How does it know that it is true?

 

Is there some mechanism/intelligence that enforces the chaos law?   

 

How does the mechanism/intelligence ensure that it does not repeat its actions and therefore cease to be chaos? 

 

Is there a memory within chaos?

[Mithras]

Chaos is odd to understand, between connections and so on.

 

I prefer the Lonely Sea + the idea of growing ego larger without anyone else there.

 

ego is just odd to understand, it’s like if you were a limitless yogi who became a ego esper. The limits change. It’s like it’s possible to do something beyond the will of creation or even something that goes beyond what you’re expected to be able to do.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mithras

[Daniel]

Chaos cannot be God.

 

Chaos and order are like darkness and light.

 

Just as darkness is dispelled by a tiny spark.  Chaos is dispelled by even a tiny amount of order.  As soon as even the tiniest structure is appled, chaos becomes cooperative.

[Nungali]

I'm going to try this  ^  ... been wanting  to clean out and tidy up the back shed for weeks , but the job seems to big  .

 

Maybe if I just hang  the hammer next to the nail shelf and put all the boxes of nails back on the shelf, sneak out and close the door ..... when I come back ..... 

[Nintendao]

42 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I'm going to try this  ^  ... been wanting  to clean out and tidy up the back shed for weeks , but the job seems to big  .

 

Maybe if I just hang  the hammer next to the nail shelf and put all the boxes of nails back on the shelf, sneak out and close the door ..... when I come back ..... 

 

Probably there are some elves in the neighborhood that will be just right for the task 

Spoiler

 

 

[wstein]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:25 PM, helpfuldemon said:

...When we aren't approached with love, we feel strife.  We find conflict and get angered.  We feel we are treated unjustly.  This is why Love is the Law.

 

Sounds like love as described above is more of a 'need' than a 'law'.

[Nungali]

Indeed , and we find that the person that coined the phrase had no such 'needs' in hand .... when they used the specific term 'love' . They did go into some lengths to describe exactly what they meant by the term 'love' .... but of course that never stops people appropriating and defining the 'axiom' themselves  .... as it 'suits' them .   In this case, as with most hermetic subjects, it needs to be understood in concert with the other teachings . In this case we can  switch over to those other teachings in the Tarot - 2 of cups 'love' .

 

 First , a note on the 'twos' ;  

 

" These cards refer to Chokmah. From the point of view of the ordinary person, Chokmah is really No. 1 and not No. 2, because he is the first manifestation; Kether (here,  the Aces  )  is completely concealed, so that nobody knows anything about it at all. Hence, only on reaching the Deuces does an element appear as the element itself ¹. Chokmah is uncontaminated by any influence ^2; therefore the elements here appear in their original harmonious condition.  " 

 

1. Hence; ' observable duality' .

2. Which would include  any need to remedy any feelings of strife, anger or injustice.

 

2 of Cups;

 

" The Two always represents the Word and the Will. It is the first manifestation. Therefore, in the suit of Water, it must refer to Love, which recovers unity from dividuality by mutual annihilation. "

- The Book of Thoth.

 

- really, that's about it in a nutshell.

 

in the poetic sense the author penned ; "“There is no bond that can unite the divided but love.”

 

and in other works ( when he puts on his chemist's hat , as he was one )  he identifies it as an 'underlying force' in the Universe  in that ;

oxygen's desire to bond with hydrogen to make water ... or any substances which naturally combine .... and postulating that such will 'eventually'  creating all types of 'myriad forms' .

 

So in a way, we could say love is 'Dao' ... that 'mysterious force and unseen 'unity' which compels the divided ( 'yin and yang' ... of many types) to combine in various ways  to make those myriad forms ... that still carry the 'signature' of 'duality'  ( they " he myriad creatures carry on their backs the yin and embrace in their arms the yang and are the blending of the generative forces of the two " )

 

http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=42&l=Daodejing

 

Perhaps then it is 'easier' to see how this 'love' is the universal 'Law' ?

.

[Nungali]

 

 

 

             

 

 

 

 

 

                                                      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Nungali

[Jadespear]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:25 PM, helpfuldemon said:

Love is more than just an emotion.  In the beginning of life, we love, and are given care, which helps us to feel safe.  Then comes desire, and then the mind, which calculates ways to acquire what we desire.  When we see that loving action gets us what we want, we realize a greater love:  a love for our fellow human beings.  We eventually realize that they are just like us, and that we live in a society that must co-operate to reach civilization.  

 

When we aren't approached with love, we feel strife.  We find conflict and get angered.  We feel we are treated unjustly.  This is why Love is the Law.

 

...love by itself can go two ways.  Love that is constructive, or love that is destructive.  There is no law of how oneself is to live.  All there are, are consequences of actions.  Thats the law.  Love isn't a law.  Obviously, to most people feeling, giving and receiving love is pleasurable and beneficial in many respects.  However, just because those are the consequences, doesn't make love an obligation to follow like being a "law" would infer or suggest. 

[helpfuldemon]

It's just a phrase that is meant to inspire.

 

What I mean to say is that when we aren't treated with kindness and respect, we grow callous, and indifferent, or we get angry.  Love as a general rule is a good habit to get into.

[helpfuldemon]

I submit to the Law of Thelema. It is the truth of life that we begin with our Will, and do what we think is best. It is also true that Love is the uniting factor in life, and that we are all divided, but with Love, we come together and there is peace. I think that if we do not approach life with love and kindness, people become callous and cruel, or angry; for we expect respect and love, because that is what raised most of us. Love is the Law. Do What Thou Wilt is the first rule of philosophy, and Love is the Law is the last. Between Will and Love, there is action, and if we are in line with the rules of these, we will avoid much error. Thelema is the open air of truth in a world of restrained and often overlooked ideals that we often fail. I do love Christianity for its hope of their ideals being held, but life is not an ideal, life is Chaos, and things happen, emotions happen, complexities arise. We aren't always strong enough to live by their ideals, and that is why it is an untrue faith. Do What Thou Wilt is more honest in light of life, and I submit!

 

 

 

[Lairg]

32 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I submit to the Law of Thelema.

 

Who/what enforces that law?

 

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

Crowley never should have said "Love is the Law", for it directly contradicts "Do What Thou Wilt". He never should have back peddled on Do What Thou Wilt, either. He should have known that his personal bias on what is right is going to be flawed, because morality is subjective to the Age and person. Do What Thou Wilt should be just that, and kept simply. If you want Love to be the Law, be a Christian, for if you just take the Gospels, it is flawless in its sense of love.

[helpfuldemon]

Have you ever wondered why, if Jesus is God, do so many people get away with breaking His commandments? Its because God represents Free Will, and not Love. Don't get me wrong, I love Jesus and I think His lessons for morality are outstanding, but from what I see and have experienced, I realize that God is freedom, and not love.