The Buddha and back pain

[chaosbananaman]

In the early Buddhist texts, it seems that Buddha was actually riddled with some health issues including a really bad back pain from a slipped disc. From everything i've gathered in regards to high level practitioners throughout history as well as modern era, it seems like their bodies are well kept and healthy even until death. So why is Buddha depicted this way? I would assume that someone as enlightened as Buddha would have some super ability to keep his body healthy until the very end, but it seems that he was just a normal old man physiologically 

 

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Apart from occasional digestive troubles, unavoidable in a mendicant, and which he cured with oil-massage and laxatives (Mv 8.1.30f.), by drinking molasses in hot water (SN 7.2.3) or with gruel of three ingredients (Mv 6.17.1), he suffered with advancing years from back trouble, probably a slipped disc. Long standing gave him back pains (AN 9.4) and although when he visited Kapilavatthu he sat in the new council hall with his back to a pillar, his spine gave him so much pain that he had to lie down and ask Ananda to continue with the talk (MN 53)

 

Anyone have some interesting insight? 

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, chaosbananaman said:

he suffered with advancing years from back trouble, probably a slipped disc.

 

if you look at the originals you will see that it is rather an idle speculation than the reality

4 hours ago, chaosbananaman said:

Long standing gave him back pains (AN 9.4) 

https://suttacentral.net/an9.4/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

 

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He stood outside the door waiting for the talk to end. When he knew the talk had ended he cleared his throat and knocked with the latch. The mendicants opened the door for the Buddha, and he entered the assembly hall, where he sat on the seat spread out.

He said to Nandaka, “Nandaka, that was a long exposition of the teaching you gave to the mendicants. My back was aching while I stood outside the door waiting for the talk to end.

 

Surely this is a rhetorical device to teach the guy a lesson not an actual health condition because why would Buddha endure back pain forcing himself to stand there? Could not he sit down or walk away or enter without waiting or something? So it is just an expression here.

 

4 hours ago, chaosbananaman said:

he visited Kapilavatthu he sat in the new council hall with his back to a pillar, his spine gave him so much pain that he had to lie down and ask Ananda to continue with the talk (MN 53)

this one is even worse because the original says Āgilāyati, (ā + gilāyati; Sk. glāyati, cp. gilāna) to be wearied, exhausted or tired, to ache, to become weak or faint

https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/agilayati 

1. he did not lean on a pillar he just sat with his back to it . the original mentions various locations to show seniority, not because the attendants lent on pillars or walls

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he entered the town hall and sat against the central column facing east. The Saṅgha of mendicants also washed their feet, entered the town hall, and sat against the west wall facing east, with the Buddha right in front of them. The Sakyans of Kapilavatthu also washed their feet, entered the town hall, and sat against the east wall facing west, with the Buddha right in front of them.

https://suttacentral.net/mn53/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

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The Buddha spent most of the night educating, encouraging, firing up, and inspiring the Sakyans with a Dhamma talk. Then he addressed Venerable Ānanda, “Ānanda, speak about the practicing trainee to the Sakyans of Kapilavatthu as you feel inspired. My back is sore, I’ll stretch it.”

“Yes, sir,” Ānanda replied. And then the Buddha spread out his outer robe folded in four and laid down in the lion’s posture—on the right side, placing one foot on top of the other—mindful and aware, and focused on the time of getting up.

 

He is just changing his posture after a few hours sitting up. A slipped disc is a wild conjecture. Note that the posture he takes is a meditation posture not a sick man's. 

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During the second watch of the night [10 p.m. to 2 a.m.], reclining on his right side, he takes up the lion's posture, one foot placed on top of the other, mindful, alert, with his mind set on getting up

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn053.html

 

 

 

4 hours ago, chaosbananaman said:

 Buddha would have some super ability to keep his body healthy until the very end,

If he did that would undermine his whole point: 'everything is suffering. On the other hand:

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3. And the Blessed One said: "Whosoever, Ananda, has developed, practiced, employed, strengthened, maintained, scrutinized, and brought to perfection the four constituents of psychic power could, if he so desired, remain throughout a world-period or until the end of it. [21] The Tathagata, Ananda, has done so. Therefore the Tathagata could, if he so desired, remain throughout a world-period or until the end of it."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.1-6.vaji.html

In the Pali language of early Buddhism, the word kalpa takes the form kappa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpa_(time)

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Taoist Texts

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

if you look at the originals you will see that it is rather an idle speculation than the reality

https://suttacentral.net/an9.4/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

 

Surely this is a rhetorical device to teach the guy a lesson not an actual health condition because why would Buddha endure back pain forcing himself to stand there? Could not he sit down or walk away or enter without waiting or something? So it is just an expression here.

 

this one is even worse because the original says Āgilāyati, (ā + gilāyati; Sk. glāyati, cp. gilāna) to be wearied, exhausted or tired, to ache, to become weak or faint

https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/agilayati 

1. he did not lean on a pillar he just sat with his back to it . the original mentions various locations to show seniority, not because the attendants lent on pillars or walls

https://suttacentral.net/mn53/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

He is just changing his posture after a few hours sitting up. A slipped disc is a wild conjecture. Note that the posture he takes is a meditation posture not a sick man's. 

 

 

If he did that would undermine his whole point: 'everything is suffering. On the other hand:

 

Taoist Texts is now Buddhist Texts????

 

But in all seriousness I agree with you. It doesn’t not seem he has serious back issues from what was said.

[chaosbananaman]

@Taoist Texts Thanks. Judging by the actual text, it does seem like you are correct that he never actually had a serious back issues. 

 

My question mainly came from a sentence in wikipedia that seems to suggest that he did which i thought was odd 

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The early texts also depict the elderly Buddha as suffering from back pain. Several texts depict him delegating teachings to his chief disciples since his body now needed more rest.^[237] However, the Buddha continued teaching well into his old age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Buddha#Later_years

 

 

Anyways, i appreciate you taking the time to actually provide the material sources 

Edited December 8, 2022 by chaosbananaman