Miao Tong Dao?

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Anyone have information on Miao Tong Dao and what it encompasses?

 

WYG

[gendao]

Edited May 14, 2009 by vortex

[Cameron]

Interesting

 

Yes, I saw Sean D's post. Not sure if this Master is accessible or not or if you would have to study with David to get to him or not. I had lunch with a Zen Master a few weeks ago who has a school here and in Berkely. His opinion was Taoists tend to get too attached to energy phenomena and need Zen to balance this. So his School blends Sundo(Korean Taoism) and Zen Buddhism.

 

As impressive as I found him and as much of a dream it has always been of mine to study directly with a bon a fide Zen Master. Being completely honest with myself the path I initiated with Max is really just still going full force 24/7. I mean I feel I am in Max and Jenny's Maoshan lineage. I haven't taken any traditional Maoshan Taoist stuff with Max but my sense is it's all I need. ATLEAST for a good long while.

 

That said..if Sean was able to share a little more about David's Korean Teacher or share info about him privately with me I would certainly make the effort to go see such a being. Why not?

 

If I need to pay a huge sum of money to David to get the info then it's not in the cards right now. Too many responsibilities and other things going.

 

Cam

[YMWong]

Anyone have information on Miao Tong Dao and what it encompasses?

 

There is no "Miaotong Dao" or "Leishan Dao" in Daoism, those are just made up for the gullible

 

YM

[gendao]

Yes, I saw Sean D's post. Not sure if this Master is accessible or not or if you would have to study with David to get to him or not. I had lunch with a Zen Master a few weeks ago who has a school here and in Berkely. His opinion was Taoists tend to get too attached to energy phenomena and need Zen to balance this. So his School blends Sundo(Korean Taoism) and Zen Buddhism.

Yea, that is my opinion, too.

 

To grossly reduce...

Taoists tend to pursue energy.

Zen Buddhists seek emptiness.

 

But the Zen Buddhist path of dropping the mind and releasing egoic attachments can actually increase one's access to energy immensely.

 

While the mechanical Taoist methods of developing energetic power and transformation can aid greatly in clearing mental and emotional blocks and attachments.

 

I think this is why Jenny Lamb "converted" to Buddhism after a good run in Taoism. That was probably the other half she needed..

[YMWong]

To grossly reduce...

Taoists tend to pursue energy.

Zen Buddhists seek emptiness.

 

This is not a reduction but a profound misunderstanding, at least a misunderstanding of chinese daoism.

 

It is true, however, that this 'energy pursuit' and 'look-for-power' seems to be a common theme with 'western *daoists*' but any orthodox daoist in the East would laugh at these stuff

 

YM

[gendao]

This is not a reduction but a profound misunderstanding, at least a misunderstanding of chinese daoism.

 

It is true, however, that this 'energy pursuit' and 'look-for-power' seems to be a common theme with 'western *daoists*' but any orthodox daoist in the East would laugh at these stuff

 

YM

Well, I guess you can also say that Taoists do ultimately seek the wuji void...but would you agree that they tend to focus on a lot of mechanical energetic methods to attain it?

 

Hence, you have "immortal Taoists" vs "enlightened Buddhas" as the respective role models in each pantheon.

 

Or if not, how would you "reduce" Chinese Taoism & Buddhism - in terms of endgames and means to those ends? Do they both have the same ultimate goal, just different methods? Or would you say their endgames themselves are also slightly different?

[YMWong]

Well, I guess you can also say that Taoists do ultimately seek the wuji void...but would you agree that they tend to focus on a lot of mechanical energetic methods to attain it?

 

Hence, you have "immortal Taoists" vs "enlightened Buddhas" as the respective role models in each pantheon.

 

Or if not, how would you "reduce" Chinese Taoism & Buddhism - in terms of endgames and means to those ends? Do they both have the same ultimate goal, just different methods? Or would you say their endgames themselves are also slightly different?

 

I am not a buddhist so I would leave considerations about buddhism to those with knowledge I don't have.

 

*Goal* in Daoism is "to be One with Dao" (yu Dao he Zhen) which is striven for by means of emptyness.

It is only in emptyness that 'space' is made for Dao to dwell inside.

 

The vision of the body and the world as a complex 'energetic' system is not a daoist thing but more belonging to the vaste chinese cultural background in which Daoism fluorished. In this sense, it is natural that daoism inherited this background and integrated it into its system.

 

YM

[Pero]

Just wanted to make a small note... The term "living Buddha" is actually just what the Chinese call tulkus. So the Dalai Lama would be a living Buddha also.

Something to keep in mind.

[gendao]

I am not a buddhist so I would leave considerations about buddhism to those with knowledge I don't have.

 

*Goal* in Daoism is "to be One with Dao" (yu Dao he Zhen) which is striven for by means of emptyness.

It is only in emptyness that 'space' is made for Dao to dwell inside.

 

The vision of the body and the world as a complex 'energetic' system is not a daoist thing but more belonging to the vaste chinese cultural background in which Daoism fluorished. In this sense, it is natural that daoism inherited this background and integrated it into its system.

So, would you say that these ancient, classical alchemical techniques lead to immortality, union with Dao via emptiness or both? IOW, are these fundamental techniques to purist Taoism - or a Chinese cultural side path?

 

And if not true Taoism, then what do you practice to become one with Dao? Simple "Zen-style" emptiness meditation?

Edited May 14, 2009 by vortex

[Cameron]

 

And if not true Taoism, then what do you practice to become one with Dao? Simple "Zen-style" emptiness meditation?

 

Aren't you going to find out in a couple weeks with Kathy?

 

edit-My bad it's next week. Tell her and her husband I said hi. I am particularly interested in your report as we have a similar backround with Kunlun. And you guys will have a live feed with Master Wang? That's pretty cool!

Edited May 14, 2009 by Cameron

[YMWong]

So, would you say that these ancient, classical alchemical techniques lead to immortality, union with Dao via emptiness or both? IOW, are these fundamental techniques to purist Taoism - or a Chinese cultural side path?

 

And if not true Taoism, then what do you practice to become one with Dao? Simple "Zen-style" emptiness meditation?

 

Yes, Union with the Great Dao is always achieved through emptyness.

 

What may differ in place and time, hence the development of various schools and various systems, is the way to get there.

- for a ritualist like a Zhengyi priest, who performs for society/people AND for himself, it may work through envisioning his bodies deities and burning them all in front of an altar to finally achieve emptyness and 'union with Great Dao'.

- for an alchemist like a Quanzhen priest, who is more into self-practice to then spread it to the masses, it may work through quite meditation and sitting in forgetfullness to - again - achieve emptyness and 'union with Great Dao'.

 

These are NOT chinese cultural side path but THE CORE of REAL DAOISM.

 

YM

[Ormus]

It is funny how this David invent new names for school to hide his source and to be able to ask huge money for new exotic fake master.

 

Ormus

Edited January 28, 2017 by Ormus