My Opinion of Something of This Entire Subject As a Newcomer Looking In

[freeform]

Why aren’t these arts freely available?

 

There’s two aspects: secrecy and access.

 

First and foremost, the most important thing to remember is that no one owes you anything

 

“But please please please - I really really want it” - yeah even then.

 

“But it’s for the betterment of all mankind” - I doubt it… when people play that card, it’s usually a front for their grandiose view of themselves as a saviour.

 

Access.

 

Why aren’t heart surgery techniques freely available?

 

Because you have to prove that you’re smart enough, responsible enough and hard working enough to be allowed to do such risky stuff to people.

 

If you walk into an operating theatre off the street and demand to be shown heart bypass techniques, you’d probably be escorted out by security.

 

Remember - no one owes you anything. Many masters would love to pass on their art to students that can be trusted - but they must prove their trustworthiness first - with no expectation of what they get out of it.

 

People pretend it’s about money… but that’s just an excuse - a strawman their mind creates to excuse the fact that they’re not prepared to jump through the hoops required. It’s a selfish view (self-ish in that it’s in service to one’s ‘self’.)

 

Most people expect masters to trust them with precious jewels, but they can’t be trusted to even prepare the ground for the teachings to begin.

 

If I say that you must train cardio until you’re able to run for 30 minutes without heavy panting - that’s when the complaints start. “You’re not showing me the super secret methods!!”

 

Or I may say that you must take on a responsibility in your community - one that benefits other people. “Yeah but where are the super secret methods!!”

 

These aren’t just tests - some of these are prerequisites… in fact a lot of the ‘secrets’ of making a method work are within these boring prerequisites… 

 

For example - if you’re a young man and you don’t get out of your comfort zone enough to be of service to something other than yourself, you have no chance of  generating Yang Qi to any great extent… oops there goes one secret. But of course it’s a distasteful secret that won’t even make it past most people’s filters.

 

People want some secret mechanic… something they can manipulate to gain an edge, or to get some power. There are such things too - but what’s the point of showing these (often dangerous) methods if you’re not prepared to do what’s required for growth?

 

Methods without personal growth results in people becoming monsters… power without growth always turns towards darkness (and usually goes unnoticed).

 

And when that happens within a lineage there are knock-on effects beyond our comprehension… effectively poisoning the spring.

 

So that’s one reason for secrecy.

 

I’m not suggesting that there are also guarded secrets that are designed to maintain power - that also exists. But these days that’s less of an issue than it was in the past.

 

These days people are lazy - you can give them all the secrets and they’ll try and find shortcuts and not get anywhere and then think their teacher is withholding something.

 

These discussions about money make me laugh… money is by far the least ‘expensive’ exchange

[MetaDao]

34 minutes ago, freeform said:

Why aren’t these arts freely available?

 

There’s two aspects: secrecy and access.

 

First and foremost, the most important thing to remember is that no one owes you anything

 

“But please please please - I really really want it” - yeah even then.

 

“But it’s for the betterment of all mankind” - I doubt it… when people play that card, it’s usually a front for their grandiose view of themselves as a saviour.

 

Access.

 

Why aren’t heart surgery techniques freely available?

 

Because you have to prove that you’re smart enough, responsible enough and hard working enough to be allowed to do such risky stuff to people.

 

If you walk into an operating theatre off the street and demand to be shown heart bypass techniques, you’d probably be escorted out by security.

 

Remember - no one owes you anything. Many masters would love to pass on their art to students that can be trusted - but they must prove their trustworthiness first - with no expectation of what they get out of it.

 

People pretend it’s about money… but that’s just an excuse - a strawman their mind creates to excuse the fact that they’re not prepared to jump through the hoops required. It’s a selfish view (self-ish in that it’s in service to one’s ‘self’.)

 

Most people expect masters to trust them with precious jewels, but they can’t be trusted to even prepare the ground for the teachings to begin.

 

If I say that you must train cardio until you’re able to run for 30 minutes without heavy panting - that’s when the complaints start. “You’re not showing me the super secret methods!!”

 

Or I may say that you must take on a responsibility in your community - one that benefits other people. “Yeah but where are the super secret methods!!”

 

These aren’t just tests - some of these are prerequisites… in fact a lot of the ‘secrets’ of making a method work are within these boring prerequisites… 

 

For example - if you’re a young man and you don’t get out of your comfort zone enough to be of service to something other than yourself, you have no chance of  generating Yang Qi to any great extent… oops there goes one secret. But of course it’s a distasteful secret that won’t even make it past most people’s filters.

 

People want some secret mechanic… something they can manipulate to gain an edge, or to get some power. There are such things too - but what’s the point of showing these (often dangerous) methods if you’re not prepared to do what’s required for growth?

 

Methods without personal growth results in people becoming monsters… power without growth always turns towards darkness (and usually goes unnoticed).

 

And when that happens within a lineage there are knock-on effects beyond our comprehension… effectively poisoning the spring.

 

So that’s one reason for secrecy.

 

I’m not suggesting that there are also guarded secrets that are designed to maintain power - that also exists. But these days that’s less of an issue than it was in the past.

 

These days people are lazy - you can give them all the secrets and they’ll try and find shortcuts and not get anywhere and then think their teacher is withholding something.

 

These discussions about money make me laugh… money is by far the least ‘expensive’ exchange

Yes, your argument is the entitlement cop out. Don’t believe it. More bullshit. If people are too lazy, then the methods will never work. Like you said, there are safeguards built into the methods that keep them from being effective until certain things are achieved.
 

You know what’s different about being a doctor and giving heart surgery? All the medical books are available without any gatekeeping and you are free to learn from the very best to become a master. Still have to learn, but the resources are not a secret.
 

It is not a case of individuals being entitled. It is a fact that all human beings are innately entitled to spiritual growth. You are deluded if you say otherwise. That is why we are all here. So we can spiritually grow. We’ve created artificial gates around it that don’t need to be here.

 

It’s funny. When anyone suggests to tear those gates down, people will come up with all sorts of rationalizations to justify it

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

22 minutes ago, freeform said:

but that’s just an excuse - a strawman their mind creates to excuse the fact that they’re not prepared to jump through the hoops required. It’s a selfish view (self-ish in that it’s in service to one’s ‘self’.)

Turning the selfishness of the teachers back onto the students themselves. Bold strategy

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

25 minutes ago, freeform said:

when that happens within a lineage there are knock-on effects beyond our comprehension… effectively poisoning the spring.

Now we are getting somewhere real.

This is the only argument I see of yours that isn’t utter bullshit. Lineage purity

[Taoist Texts]

17 minutes ago, freeform said:

Why aren’t these arts...

....a long (so very long)  essay follows....someething, someething...and concludes..

20 minutes ago, freeform said:

..all the secrets...

...something, something. the end.

 

not even once mentioning what exacly these arts and these secrets do. This is a fascinating study in taboo avoidance. Adult sane people manage to talk at each other at length without even once specifying what exactly they are discussing whith such candor. "these arts' do seem to be 'secret' all right. Quite incredibly so.

 

 

[MetaDao]

26 minutes ago, freeform said:

Methods without personal growth results in people becoming monsters… power without growth always turns towards darkness (and usually goes unnoticed).

Yes. Authentic spiritual methods result in both growth and power.

 

Even then, if people train in things that give power without growth, it’s their responsibility to deal with the karmic backlash

[freeform]

1 hour ago, mcoolio said:

We could share and discuss and experiment. That would be real exchange! But instead, most discussions here are about theoretical and philosophical ramblings. Why do we do this?

I also find secrecy a little stifling… but some of it really is warranted - especially when it comes to ‘experimenting’.

I once got a small part of one practice wrong - and hey presto I started bleeding out of all the orifices in my head  

 

Heart attacks on the cushion are not uncommon.

 

Liver cancer (and various others) are not uncommon.

 

At a certain point you’re creating a mini reactor inside yourself. It’s no joke… not something to play with.

 

It’s all fine saying ‘bla bla bla - we’re not 10yrs old’… but would you be prepared to say that to a grieving mother after a failed daobums ‘experiment’ kills her baby? How would organising this experiment affect your soul journey?

 

I’ve shared practices that are worth experimenting with many times on the forum. They’re just not that exciting and mentally stimulating for most  

[MetaDao]

10 minutes ago, freeform said:

Heart attacks on the cushion are not uncommon.

 

Liver cancer (and various others) are not uncommon.

Yes, you could easily turn this on its head though.

You know what else is not uncommon? All the benefits to body and mind.The reduction in sickness when all channels are opened. The list goes on.

 

When you skydive out of a plane or free solo a mountain, you know there is a chance something could go horribly wrong. People still do it anyway. And many of them succeed. The ones that are injured as a result. They knew the risks.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

You know what’s different about being a doctor and giving heart surgery? All the medical books are available without any gatekeeping and you are free to learn from the very best to become a master.

I personally would not want to get heart surgery from someone who didn’t go to medical school and didn’t learn from actual heart surgeons 

[freeform]

21 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Like you said, their are safeguards built into the very methods that keep them from being effective until certain things are achieved.

I didn’t say that.

 

There are no safeguards for generating power.

 

The example I used is an aspect of how I’d go about generating the prerequisites for Yang Qi in aid of spiritual growth.

 

Sacrificing a virgin could also do it. Qi pills could do it. Transmission from a teacher could do it.

 

I don’t care about generating power for its own sake. My tradition is only interested in it as a tool to aid in spiritual growth. Hence the lack of virgin corpses at my teacher’s place 😅

[MetaDao]

6 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I personally would not want to get heart surgery from someone who didn’t go to medical school and didn’t learn from actual heart surgeons 

And you don’t have to  

 

Luckily, we have the free will to choose which doctors we’d like to see and we’ve got a system setup to prove that people have mastered the skill that is widely available to the masses without gates.

 

If someone wants to play doctor in their garage and hurts themselves and the idiots that sit in their operating table in the meantime, that’s simply them being stupid. The laws of fate and stupidity at work.

[freeform]

9 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

You know what else is not uncommon? All the benefits to body and mind.The reduction in sickness when all channels are opened. The list goes on.

You can get all that from freely available material.

[MetaDao]

5 minutes ago, freeform said:

don’t care about generating power for its own sake. My tradition is only interested in it as a tool to aid in spiritual growth. Hence the lack of virgin corpses at my teacher’s place 😅

But, would you agree, there are ways to share the tools that aid in spiritual growth while keeping the unsafe guarded power generation methods more gated?.

 

In any case, I still might argue that the knowledge is better in the hands of the many than the few. When in the hands of the few, there is a tendency to misuse such things for even more power.

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[freeform]

29 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

without even once specifying what exactly they are discussing

Aren’t you the one wanting payment for revealing your own secrets?

 

My reason for avoiding taboos is simply out of respect to my teacher’s wishes. Whether I agree or not.
 

What is yours?

Financial?

[Barnaby]

4 minutes ago, freeform said:

Hence the lack of virgin corpses at my teacher’s place 😅

 

Oh man, I just lost interest in your tradition... 

[freeform]

Just now, MetaDao said:

But, would you agree, there are ways to share the tools that aid in spiritual growth while keeping the in safe guarded power generation methods more gated?.

And these are freely available. It just takes effort… and doing stuff most people simply don’t want to do. It’s really as simple as that.

 

I get dozens of emails every month with people asking for help.

 

I offer help. 
 

It’s not the magic pill they hoped it is…
 

“yeah but I want the kind of help that’s in line with what I want”… 

 

One in 10 actually listen, actually put the advice into practice, and their life transforms for the better… 

 

The rest carry on searching for that magic pill that conforms to their preferences 🤷

[Taoist Texts]

5 minutes ago, freeform said:

What is yours?

hehe;) thats not what i meant

1.  i did not mean just you. I meant everybody on this forum has a huge blind spot namely  the end goal  of what they allegedly stadying. Nobody ever specifies it . E.g "My art is called plumbing and with it i will plumb a bathroom". See? End goal.  No blind spot. Compare this to our tipical stance here: "My art is called nuigonga-yuginga and with i will... (blind spot)". The end goal, the purpose is taboo. Thats what i mean.

2. the end goal and the purpose of my art is immortality. Simple

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

immortality. Simple

Not that simple, no.
 

What does immortality mean? 
 

Is a ghost immortal?

 

Is Voltaire immortal through his works?

 

Is Genghis khan immortal through his progeny?

 

Is the immortality of the Hun the immortality you’re talking about?

 

Do you mean you continue living physically for eternity? What happens when the sun finally implodes? 
 

Do you mean spiritually immortal? How is that different from the transmigrating immortality of the soul?

 

Quote

plumb a bathroom

What does that mean?
 

Connecting the outflow of your toilet with the tap on your bath is still ‘plumbing’. Is this the aim of your plumbing art?

 

Sorry but it’s not that simple, not for me anyway.

[Taoist Texts]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

Not that simple, no.

what exactly a concept means can be rationally discussed and specified if there is a need. On the other hand, avoiding the concept completely is not rational. It is a sure sign of psychological issues.

[mcoolio]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

not even once mentioning what exacly these arts and these secrets do. This is a fascinating study in taboo avoidance. Adult sane people manage to talk at each other at length without even once specifying what exactly they are discussing whith such candor. "these arts' do seem to be 'secret' all right. Quite incredibly so.

 

12 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

hehe;) thats not what i meant

1.  i did not mean just you. I meant everybody on this forum has a huge blind spot namely  the end goal  of what they allegedly stadying. Nobody ever specifies it . E.g "My art is called plumbing and with it i will plumb a bathroom". See? End goal.  No blind spot. Compare this to our tipical stance here: "My art is called nuigonga-yuginga and with i will... (blind spot)". The end goal, the purpose is taboo. Thats what i mean.

2. the end goal and the purpose of my art is immortality. Simple

 

I truly don't understand what you mean. As far as I know most people here are simply fascinated by these arts. The idea of the unknown. The idea of evolution and growing as a human being, understanding the universe. That's it for me at least. What's wrong with that?

 

I bet you that someone who is in it simply for the purpose of immortality, I doubt he will get far.

[Taoist Texts]

1 minute ago, mcoolio said:

I truly don't understand what you mean.

i know. the blind spot precludes understanding.

 

1 minute ago, mcoolio said:

fascinated by these arts.

see? taboo again. what arts? arts of painting, singing, pottery? hehe so funny

 

3 minutes ago, mcoolio said:

What's wrong with that?

nobody says anything is wrong.

[mcoolio]

4 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

10 minutes ago, mcoolio said:

fascinated by these arts.

see? taboo again. what arts? arts of painting, singing, pottery? hehe so funny

 

Neigong, qigong, meditation, magick, astrology, feng shui, alchemy, healing arts

 

This kind of stuff.

[Wilhelm]

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

But, would you agree, there are ways to share the tools that aid in spiritual growth while keeping the unsafe guarded power generation methods more gated?.

 

In any case, I still might argue that the knowledge is better in the hands of the many than the few. When in the hands of the few, there is a tendency to misuse such things for even more power.

Did you ever ask your teacher about this? 

 

Having (if I'm not mistaken) a relatively easy to perform choreography that's said to completely replenish your Yuan Jing seems like the sort of 'ultimate life hack' that could benefit anyone.  After learning it did you immediately go and show everyone you care about how to do it?

Edited December 21, 2022 by Wilhelm

[freeform]

5 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

On the other hand, avoiding the concept completely is not rational. It is a sure sign of psychological issues.

It’s like we’re all in a pizza restaurant… and TT asks everyone why we came here.
 

One says ‘for fun’, another says ‘to chat’, yet another ‘coz we’re hungry’… ‘to get out the house’… ‘to socialise together’… ‘coz of the hunky waiter’… ‘for the virgin blood’ (‘damn it - not again Barnaby!’ Everyone exclaims)…

 

But TT scowls away coz no one expressly says “to get pizza”.

 

Isn't it implicit that Nei Dan is all about immortality? (Whatever that actually means)

 

So who’s showing the biggest signs of psychological issues round the pizza table? 
 

Quote

Hint: it’s Barnaby!

Quote

But TT is a close second  

Quote

MetaDao a close third - what sort of freak gets pineapple on a pizza!?! 

 

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

7 minutes ago, freeform said:

It’s like we’re all in a pizza restaurant

 

26 minutes ago, mcoolio said:

Neigong, qigong, meditation, magick, astrology, feng shui, alchemy, healing arts

 

This kind of stuff.

your pizza is all over the place;)

 

8 minutes ago, freeform said:

Isn't it implicit that Nei Dan is all about immortality?

 

38 minutes ago, mcoolio said:

I bet you that someone who is in it simply for the purpose of immortality, I doubt he will get far.

seems not implicit at all;)

 

(dam now i am jonesing for pizza)