My Opinion of Something of This Entire Subject As a Newcomer Looking In

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Another thing, what if all of these teachings were made freely available to everyone and suddenly you have lots of people injuring themselves or dying? Do you not think that there will not be a massive backlash, with the practices maybe getting banned and the teachings destroyed?  

[MetaDao]

2 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

Now we may have attended different lectures but I was under the impression that the central idea in cultivation is that being yourself isn't good enough.

I meant that being yourself is either good enough or it isn’t to earn the right to teachings.

 

Do you believe me not good enough to be learning Neidan just because I told you Damo kicked me out of the academy?

 

Yes, I agree that self-improvement is always the pivotal aspect of spiritual growth. You should never be content with who you currently are. Yet, you should always stay true to your heart. 
 

This is what I meant. I stay true to my heart, and if that’s not good enough to learn Neidan from a teacher than the system is broken.

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Another thing, what if all of these teachings were made freely available to everyone and suddenly you have lots of people injuring themselves or dying? Do you not think that there will not be a massive backlash, with the practices maybe getting banned and the teachings destroyed?  

I’m just curious. Why do you have such a motivation for keeping them secret?
 

Yes, that argument is fair. However, I’ve already pointed out that the opposite would also be true. There would be far more people with positive benefits. Those with negative benefits could be treated by Qigong doctors, acupuncturists, and TCM practitioners. If the risks are made clearly known, it is on no one but the practitioners.

[MetaDao]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Hang on, I thought secrets were bad? Why should everyone else be expected to give away all their secrets for free but you and your master can keep yours?

I’m not keeping my secrets. I’ve said basically as much as I can say without getting barred from learning. If I was a master, I would come back on this forum and reveal all that I deemed safe to share 🤷‍♂️

[MetaDao]

2 hours ago, anshino23 said:

It’s funny how your experience differs completely with mine in terms of Damo. 
 

As long as one is being respectful and kind I’ve seen all questions being answered and everything not answered he says it’s more for an in-person thing which I completely respect. 
 

As for your current teacher I funnily found the opposite the case. It was just a “trust me.” with no real explanations and — as I understood it — none of the real developmental stages were similar to what I’ve confirmed with other high-level practitioners that learn from authentic neidan lineages so I quickly lost faith — lots of lofty claims was part of it. 
 

As I know and practiced with the teacher I know first-hand and not just speaking on belief. So it’s interesting to see the difference in your experience. 
 

Wish you the best in your practice however.  

I had similar experiences with Damo. I never said he was a bad teacher. I am simply saying he is not always correct.

 

If you can’t disagree with a teacher without him quickly turning on you aggressively and calling you names, I would never like to learn from him. That was my experience with Damo. I know that’s not everyone’s experience, but it was mine. 
 

Funny because my own teacher thinks quite the opposite of me  

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

It’s curious. From what I can tell, what I say is in everyone’s best interests except those who are the keepers of the secrets.

 

So, why the backlash? Please explain  

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, anshino23 said:

As long as one is being respectful and kind I’ve seen all questions being answered and everything not answered he says it’s more for an in-person thing which I completely respect. 

 

The bolded part is of great significance here.

 

Thank you for the reminder

[Wilhelm]

20 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

I meant that being yourself is either good enough or it isn’t to earn the right to teachings.

 

Do you believe me not good enough to be learning Neidan just because I told you Damo kicked me out of the academy?

 

Yes, I agree that self-improvement is always the pivotal aspect of spiritual growth. You should never be content with who you currently are. Yet, you should always stay true to your heart. 
 

This is what I meant. I stay true to my heart, and if that’s not good enough to learn Neidan from a teacher than the system is broken.

Have you ever worked in a daycare, or pound, or school?

 

You've got all these little shits around and there's always one that's such a pain in the ass.  Now if that were YOUR kid, and you were dealing with them one on one, you might have the resources to manage them properly.  But they're not, and  you don't!  So you put them in the corner, and go back to managing the rest of them.

 

I imagine running an online school is like this 😂

Edited December 21, 2022 by Wilhelm

[MetaDao]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm said:

Have you ever worked in a daycare, or pound, or school?

 

You've got all these little shits around and there's always one that's such a pain in the ass.  Now if that were YOUR kid, and you were dealing with them one on one, you might have the resources to manage them properly.  But you don't!  So you put them in the corner, and go back to managing the rest of them.

 

I imagine running an online school is like this 😂

An interesting perspective. And you consider me the little shit that’s a pain in the ass.

 

But on what basis do you make that judgement? You’ve never personally interacted with me  

 

I consider you to be very intelligent and your mental state seems great from our discussions on here. I wouldn’t be surprised if you make it far along the path.

 

I put on a mask on these forums to convey things to people. I don’t care how I’m viewed. If you met me, you would think otherwise. The tone I take on these forums is different than the one I have in person.

 

You see: from my perspective, you have many judgements you’ve made about me and I have very few I’ve made about you

[MetaDao]

If you stop and consider, you’ll realize you have two people in your mind.

 

On the one hand, there is Damo Mitchell, a publicly renowned Neigong instructor who you’ve been learning under for quite some time. In every interaction you’ve had with him, he’s been a very nice fellow and explained things pretty well. You consider him to be of high attainment and a master of the arts he teaches. Most of the time, his understanding is correct. He is wise. He is older. He has traveled and seems great many things along the path.

 

Then, you’ve got a hot-headed young guy who’s just been through college, coming into the forums explaining the basics of Neidan, being truthful about what he’s been through and who he is, explaining how he places everyone on equal pedestals. Questioning why Neidan is so secretive and why these public teachers are profiting so much from things that seem like they should be given to all. He has been kicked out of the community which you hold so dear to your heart and is saying that the teacher you know and respect can be an asshole and isn’t always right. Something he would say about himself as well.

 

Now, you experience cognitive dissonance because subconsciously, you are placing your image of Damo on a pedestal. A pedestal of the pinnacle of what you’re currently practicing. Something you’re aspiring towards. Now, you think to yourself, there must be a reason this guy was kicked out of the academy. So on and so forth. Making all kinds of automatic judgements. Eliminate these subconscious judgments and patterns. Eliminate the bias. 

 

Stop and consider the actual issues I raise regarding misuse of power, charging money for practices, secrecy, ect. Bring yourself on equal footing with your teacher(Damo) and think to yourself: would I still charge money for the academy? I wonder how much money Damo already has. Does he need more?

 

Hmm, these issues how would I resolve them? Bring these leaders down off their pedestals. Not just Damo. Everyone. Realize that you are just as good as them. Realize that many people are just as good as you. Realize that these arts could be practiced by many people. This is the viewpoint I share. It is not such a bad one to consider no?

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, freeform said:

...

 

It’s all fine saying ‘bla bla bla - we’re not 10yrs old’… but would you be prepared to say that to a grieving mother after a failed daobums ‘experiment’ kills her baby? How would organising this experiment affect your soul journey?

...

 

Well, I just found out how to make my next  $40,000 - not teaching arts that I can not tell you about , but ...... my new book .

 

These types of 'expose / experience'  novels  are popular and turn a fast buck , like 

 

Born again Christian 'ex-Satanist'  Mike  Wanker ..... oops I mean     Warnke

 

 

or

 

 

Keep your eyes out on the book stand folks  .... should be out next year ;

 

' Daobums Experiments Killed My Baby.'

by  Nun  Gnarly .

 

 

 

.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Nungali

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, freeform said:

I didn’t say that.

 

There are no safeguards for generating power.

 

The example I used is an aspect of how I’d go about generating the prerequisites for Yang Qi in aid of spiritual growth.

 

Sacrificing a virgin could also do it. Qi pills could do it. Transmission from a teacher could do it.

 

I don’t care about generating power for its own sake. My tradition is only interested in it as a tool to aid in spiritual growth. Hence the lack of virgin corpses at my teacher’s place 😅

 

In my tradition , its the 'sacrificing'  of virginity .... not the virgin herself .

 

 

[Wilhelm]

52 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

 

Edit: gonna take another minute and think about how to respond 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Wilhelm

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

I’m just curious. Why do you have such a motivation for keeping them secret?

My motivation is to stop unnecessary harm happening to people and for cultivation to not have a bad reputation. 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Another thing, what if all of these teachings were made freely available to everyone and suddenly you have lots of people injuring themselves or dying? Do you not think that there will not be a massive backlash, with the practices maybe getting banned and the teachings destroyed?  

 

It happened in the past , in Judaism . It has an inner secret 'energetic' tradition based on ecstatic exercise and more importantly  .......... (its a secret     ) .  Anyway , it was revealed to the populace by  ...... ( cant remember , running off memory here )   a teacher . people went nuts about it , left their homes and jobs, huge numbers followed him. I think they went on some journey, the result was a heap of people in some place that could not be fed or looked after . So many left their earlier life that it caused social and economic problems . Eventually the authorities had to fix up the mess and yes, the teaching and practice was banned .

 

I am more interested in the  Hermetic, Zoroastrian and Sufi approach .... in regard to ..... say one is a   builder or a tiler .... then one studies development, advancement , awareness , 'enlightenment' , until one achieves  one's enlightenment , then one becomes an enlightened  ( Master ) builder or tiler  .... not some burned out ecstatic, not a mystic living in a cave  or a monk in a monastery or some person trying to make a living out of the techniques they used to find and develop themselves  .... and  then we all benefit  from their  'Mastership'  :

 

 

 

 

 

[MetaDao]

48 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

My motivation is to stop unnecessary harm happening to people and for cultivation to not have a bad reputation. 

Ah but both of those things already happen with the current system. People just profit off it. 
 

You could make all TCM and medical Qigong techniques free about 30 years before making all the other techniques free and open to the public, thus ensuring safety above all else.

 

Teachers wouldn’t require names or followings as you could just use technology to make yourself an animated avatar with an anonymous name, and voice changer

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[Wilhelm]

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

An interesting perspective. And you consider me the little shit that’s a pain in the ass.

 

But on what basis do you make that judgement? You’ve never personally interacted with me  

 

You see: from my perspective, you have many judgements you’ve made about me and I have very few I’ve made about you

You're right about this.  I'm a little shit too and ought to work on being less judgmental.

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

If you stop and consider, you’ll realize you have two people in your mind.

 

On the one hand, there is Damo Mitchell, a publicly renowned Neigong instructor who you’ve been learning under for quite some time. In every interaction you’ve had with him, he’s been a very nice fellow and explained things pretty well. You consider him to be of high attainment and a master of the arts he teaches. Most of the time, his understanding is correct. He is wise. He is older. He has traveled and seems great many things along the path.

 

Then, you’ve got a hot-headed young guy who’s just been through college, coming into the forums explaining the basics of Neidan, being truthful about what he’s been through and who he is, explaining how he places everyone on equal pedestals. Questioning why Neidan is so secretive and why these public teachers are profiting so much from things that seem like they should be given to all. He has been kicked out of the community which you hold so dear to your heart and is saying that the teacher you know and respect can be an asshole and isn’t always right. Something he would say about himself as well.

 

Now, you experience cognitive dissonance because subconsciously, you are placing your image of Damo on a pedestal. A pedestal of the pinnacle of what you’re currently practicing. Something you’re aspiring towards.

Yeah that's a good assessment of the situation.

Quote

Now, you think to yourself, there must be a reason this guy was kicked out of the academy. So on and so forth. Making all kinds of automatic judgements. Eliminate these subconscious judgments and patterns. Eliminate the bias. 

Dude I was there.  You were straight up disrespectful, and I get that you've got your own side to the story but how could such a smart guy like yourself not see that there might be consequences for acting like that?

Quote

Stop and consider the actual issues I raise regarding misuse of power, charging money for practices, secrecy, ect. Bring yourself on equal footing with your teacher(Damo) and think to yourself: would I still charge money for the academy? I wonder how much money Damo already has. Does he need more?

 

Hmm, these issues how would I resolve them? Bring these leaders down off their pedestals. Not just Damo. Everyone. Realize that you are just as good as them. Realize that many people are just as good as you. Realize that these arts could be practiced by many people. This is the viewpoint I share. It is not such a bad one to consider no?

Basically I think all the points you raise are valid (even if I disagree with some of them), and I think you're right to consider them deeply, but I wish you would do so more respectfully with your teachers so it would be easier for you. 

 

This approach was probably super useful for you in college, but the difference here is nobody is under an obligation to put up with you if they don't want to - even internal arts teachers.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Wilhelm

[MetaDao]

15 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

You were straight up disrespectful, and I get that you've got your own side to the story but how could such a smart guy like yourself not see that there might be consequences for acting like that?

Not the way I see it. I disagreed. He called me a child. Said he’d never train me in person. It would be impossible. 
 

I told him his mind isn’t anything considered higher. He sent me an email calling me entitled, self-important, childish, and some other names. Not a teacher I’d study under.
 

When a teacher gives you shit, you don’t just take it. That’s not the way I am. So, he can take my words just as I meant them. I’d say them again in the same way. 
Not to mention he used siddhi on me. He can take my disrespect. He’s got thick skin  

 

That’s my side of the story. The moral of it. Don’t place people on pedestals. You can check the Facebook chat for exactly what I said. I’m sure some of it was cringeworthy, but if you know who I am you can go check unless he deleted them.

 

That’s all I’ve got to say on it. And, I believe the internal arts scene is flawed. So case closed.

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[Wilhelm]

39 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

He sent me an email calling me entitled, self-important, childish, and some other names.

Do you think this was an inaccurate assessment?

 

Edit: you were right to point out earlier that I don't know the true 'you', only the 'mask' you present here.  It just seems to me that this 'mask' seems to embody the above qualities sometimes, along with a range of positive ones like intelligence, idealism, drive, passion etc.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Wilhelm

[MetaDao]

51 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

Do you think this was an inaccurate assessment?

 

Edit: you were right to point out earlier that I don't know the true 'you', only the 'mask' you present here.  It just seems to me that this 'mask' seems to embody the above qualities sometimes, along with a range of positive ones like intelligence, idealism, drive, passion etc.

Lol rather than answer that, I could list off a bunch of bad qualities that Damo shares and you’d just think me more of a child.

 

If, however, the words came out of Damo’s mouth, you’d believe them. 
 

This just proves my point. 
 

I do not think you’d like to share the same fate I did and be on the receiving ends of such words.
 

Sure, maybe I am those things. But only in certain situations. And, I work on myself day in and day out, so does it even matter? 
 

Let me say this. You have much more tact and skill with your words than Damo, so I think you will easily eclipse him in terms of skill if you put in effort. 

 

Damo wouldn’t apologize, backtrack on his words, or admit he may be wrong  Not that I’ve experienced. 

 

 I tried to meet with him over zoom to discuss how I might go about changing these qualities he’d seen in me and why I came across that way and he denied all attempts at communication. 

 

Also, Damo, at my age, I’m sure was even more entitled and even more self-important. I’ve heard he picked fights with people and pissed them off just for fun. In fact, I’d still call him self-important and entitled. To add to that, I’d say he is selfish and greedy. Seems only fair as the child I am  

 

He’s welcome to prove me wrong and change the internal arts scene for the better. But, I expect he will just relax in Bali with his wife enjoying the good life as he teaches a few close students and ignores the problems I’ve pointed out. In the meantime, I’ll be practicing with the intention to fix the internal arts scene in around 30 years . Public fame does not matter at all in terms of skill. Nor is it necessary. Simply another attachment and obstacle.

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm said:

Do you think this was an inaccurate assessment?

 Do you?   (Im just teasing) 

 

There are excellent  personal practice diary sections that the mods can kindly make available should the need to vent personal feelings about parting ways with teachers still be strong

 

Lets get back to the topic at hand shall we?  

 

5 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Another thing, what if all of these teachings were made freely available to everyone and suddenly you have lots of people injuring themselves or dying? Do you not think that there will not be a massive backlash, with the practices maybe getting banned and the teachings destroyed?  

 

The other thing about money thats an interesting factor is, you have to work for it, normally quite hard

 

In some cases (not all) you may have to hand over thousands just to stand in the presence of one of these people, with no guarantees. It is kind of a character test in and of itself really. How attached to money are you...would you give it up just to have an opportunity to maybe prove yourself worth consideration beyond a discussion

 

There is a lot to be said about a  person and their attachment to money. People often miss this

Edited December 21, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Cobie]

There’s a sucker born every minute.

[MetaDao]

49 minutes ago, Cobie said:

There’s a sucker born every minute.

@Shadow_self They tested his character and deemed him a sucker 😂

[MetaDao]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

It is kind of a character test in and of itself really. How attached to money are you

I would say this is more a false character test done by fraudsters.

 

True masters don’t need to charge. It is more of an energy exchange. Yin and Yang. Giving and receiving.

 

I think I said this before. If you wanted to test how attached someone was to money, you could have them throw all their possessions away or burn the money that they give you. If the money is going to the teacher as a form of test, that is fraud. Simply deems you as a fool and a sucker. If any of you encounter such a test, the correct solution is to hand the money to someone who looks like they need it.

 

When they ask why you did that, you explain, they looked like they needed it more than you 🤷‍♂️

 

If they still deny you, they are frauds. Move on

Edited December 21, 2022 by MetaDao

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

@NoOne still interested in internal arts now? 😂😂😂