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[Christopher Tricker]

Hi. I'm Christopher. I love Chuang Tzu's philosophy and have spent 25 years excavating his long-lost book. I'm here to discuss Chuang Tzu's philosophy with other like-minded people, and to let you know about my book's existence. You can check it out at http://thecicadaandthebird.com

[ilumairen]

Welcome Christopher.

[Chang dao ling]

Welcome

[Cobie]

Hi Christopher. Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for the link. Very interesting indeed. 

 

… I interpret the large bird Of a Flock (Chapter 1.1) to be a metaphor for awareness, …

Wonderful to see you give the characters. Your explanation makes sense to me. I think you’re onto something. 

 

… No native Chinese scholar has ever interpreted Of a Flock in this way. (For that matter, no Western scholar has either.)

They all just copy the received translation, because to really read it (like you did) takes too much time. Kudos to you.

 

”We translators, Chinese and English alike, are on equal ground here. We are archaeologists doing the best we can, as studiously as we can, to recreate a lost world.

I like the way you explained why you think so. And I agree. 

 

Great to have you on board. 
 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Cobie

[Christopher Tricker]

On 12/24/2022 at 8:42 PM, Cobie said:

Hi Christopher. Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for the link. Very interesting indeed. 

 

… I interpret the large bird Of a Flock (Chapter 1.1) to be a metaphor for awareness, …

Wonderful to see you give the characters. Your explanation makes sense to me. I think you’re onto something. 

 

… No native Chinese scholar has ever interpreted Of a Flock in this way. (For that matter, no Western scholar has either.)

They all just copy the received translation, because to really read it (like you did) takes too much time. Kudos to you.

 

”We translators, Chinese and English alike, are on equal ground here. We are archaeologists doing the best we can, as studiously as we can, to recreate a lost world.

I like the way you explained why you think so. And I agree. 

 

Great to have you on board. 

Thanks for the welcome, Cobie, and for your responses. You've let me know that I'm not pouring words into a dark well. Very encouraging.

[Christopher Tricker]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:52 PM, ilumairen said:

Welcome Christopher.

Thanks ilumairen.

Hey, how did you create the tag-line (the quote in green text at the end of your post)?

[ilumairen]

3 hours ago, Christopher Tricker said:

Thanks ilumairen.

Hey, how did you create the tag-line (the quote in green text at the end of your post)?

If you look in the upper right hand corner, you’ll see three dashes click them. 

 

Choose “account,” and then “account settings.” You will see a pencil, and the “signature” option, at the bottom of the list on the left. Once you click that all the options for a siggy line become available.

[Christopher Tricker]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

If you look in the upper right hand corner, you’ll see three dashes click them. 

 

Choose “account,” and then “account settings.” You will see a pencil, and the “signature” option, at the bottom of the list on the left. Once you click that all the options for a siggy line become available.

 

Hmm, I'm not seeing that.

In the upper right-hand corner I see my name with a drop-down arrow.

When I click on the arrow I see a heading "settings" with a sub-heading "account settings".

when I click on "account settings" I don't see a pencil, or any option for "signature".

Strange.

[ilumairen]

7 hours ago, Christopher Tricker said:

 

Hmm, I'm not seeing that.

In the upper right-hand corner I see my name with a drop-down arrow.

When I click on the arrow I see a heading "settings" with a sub-heading "account settings".

when I click on "account settings" I don't see a pencil, or any option for "signature".

Strange.

Are you on a phone? Desktop mode is slightly different.

 

Let’s just tag @steve and see if he can help you.

[doc benway]

@Christopher Tricker

What device are you using?

I’ll try to help.

[Christopher Tricker]

3 hours ago, steve said:

@Christopher Tricker

What device are you using?

I’ll try to help.

 

Hi Steve.

Thanks.

 

I'm on a PC desktop.

I've got a couple of screen shots, but I can't work out how to insert them here.

[Giles]

On 22/12/2022 at 10:45 PM, Christopher Tricker said:

Hi. I'm Christopher. I love Chuang Tzu's philosophy and have spent 25 years excavating his long-lost book. I'm here to discuss Chuang Tzu's philosophy with other like-minded people, and to let you know about my book's existence. You can check it out at http://thecicadaandthebird.com

 

Welcome Christopher.

 

Namaste. _/\_

[doc benway]

In case anyone is curious reading this thread, the signature option is not active until members are promoted from "Junior Bum" to "Dao Bum" status. This occurs automatically after 14 posts.

Warm welcome @Christopher Tricker and thanks for the heads up @ilumairen

[wandelaar]

The book looks interesting. Not for its translation as there are already excellent English translations of the Chuang tzu, but for its commentary. Unhappily I'm very busy now, so at the moment I have no time to read your book. Maybe later...

[Cobie]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

… there are already excellent English translations of the Chuang tzu …

@Christopher Tricker said “… No matter which translation I read (Watson, Graham, Mair, Palmer, Ziporyn, and others), … were a rambling, poorly-written mess …”

https://thecicadaandthebird.com/how-chuang-tzus-book-was-discovered  

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Cobie

[wandelaar]

In that case I rather trust the considered opinion of the professionals. A sinologist doesn't make a name for himself by lazily and mindlessly copying the work of his predecessors but by well reasoned criticism and improvements upon the work of others past and present. That's how science works. So there is no reason to think that sinologists would deliver a "rambling, poorly-written mess" if the text itself and the presently known context allowed for a better translation. But I don't know the extend of Christopher Tricker's knowledge, it may be at the same level or beyond that of the criticized translators. And in that case his translation could conceivably be better. But as I said I haven't got the time to delve into this any deeper right now.

[Cobie]

 

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

The book looks interesting … for its commentary. …

 

Really?

 

On 24/01/2023 at 1:29 PM, Taoist Texts said:

If these were metaphorical/not-literal then the reader would not know what the description means so who would read a useless book? Why would any one write a useless book? Obviously  the goalposts are literal.

…

But thats the thing with literalness. There is nothing to interpret …

“There is nothing to interpret”.  
 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Cobie

[wandelaar]

I briefly read a few pieces of the pdf, and found some interesting interpretations there. That's why the commentary looked interesting. Furthermore reading the Chuang tzu is all about  interpretation, that is: unless you like reading fairy tales and allegories without ever wondering about the morale of the stories. You can repeat it a thousand times but it's simply nonsense that one can do away with interpretation or commentary for texts that are more than two thousand years old, from a different culture, and written in a language that hugely differs from our own. But this has been explained to you many times before...