Precepts and Ethical Foundations of Daoism

[Wilhelm]

Just now, freeform said:

 

But this is way beyond where I’m at… 

Ah shit, I'll add it to 2050s goals then 😂

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

Very interesting, thank you.

 

What different does it make in your tradition - let's say two aspirants have an equal potential and ability but one holds more closely to the ethical teachings than the other.  What outcomes might they expect?

 

I will quote some things that stand out to me  from the various documents , first I will note ;

 

"   Do good unto others for its own sake, not for reward, not for gratitude from them, not for sympathy.

 

For wert thou to summon the Gnomes to pander to thine avarice, thou wouldst no longer command them, but they would command thee. Wouldst thou abuse the pure beings of the woods and mountains to fill thy coffers and satisfy thy hunger of Gold? Wouldst thou debase the Spirits of Living Fire to serve thy wrath and hatred? Wouldst thou violate the purity of the Souls of the Waters to pander to thy lust of debauchery? Wouldst thou force the Spirits of the Evening Breeze to minister to thy folly and caprice? Know that with such desires thou canst but attract the Weak, not the Strong, and in that case the Weak will have power over thee. "

 

In some cases  the outcomes are related directly to misuse,  failures and imbalances  in certain areas and practices;

 

Western Magical Tradition  :             Yogas       :           +    Outcomes  :     -  Outcomes

 

Kabbalah, Correspondence systems , texts, etc  :  Gnana Yoga    :  Knowledge  :   Insanity . 

 

The 'Sacred Magic ' ¹ :  Raja Yoga  :   Development of Will :  Obsession .

 

Acts of worship and rites of devotion :  Bhakti Yoga :  Love  :   Fanaticism .

 

Triumph over ordeals :   Hatha Yoga  :  Courage   :    Fear , inability to act , 'paralysis' .

 

Invocations : Mantra Yoga : Development of speech and communication   :  addiction to gossip .

 

Acts of Service :  Karma Yoga :  Accomplishment through work and organization of the physical plane  : Idleness and laziness .

 

 

There are also 'ways of viewing ' , a particular mind set required  ( so not exactly 'ethics' , more a 'psychological viewpoint ' )  that spells out what can happen if this is not held in mind - fairly clearly  ² .... still most of the above is ignored  .... people still grope for power blindly and crash into the barriers ..... just like they do in eastern mystical systems   

 

 

1. As in the Abramelin system , rites of passage , initiations ,  hermitage, etc .

 

2.  " 

In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist.

It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.

3. The advantages to be gained from them are chiefly these:
("a") A widening of the horizon of the mind.
("b") An improvement of the control of the mind.

4. The student, if he attains any success in the following practices, will find himself confronted by things (ideas or  beings) too glorious or too dreadful to be described. It is essential that he remain the master of all that he beholds, hears or conceives; otherwise he will be the slave of illusion, and the prey of madness. "

 

... and I would suggest that also applies to some eastern practices .

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

Does embodying the correct ethical qualities increase a student's probability for success (all other things being equal)?

 

In my other practice ,  (more 'shamanic' and related to  the environment I live in ) " embodying the correct ethical qualities " would go under the term " Law " . Following Law underpins everything and any success relies on it . My teacher tells me  to just 'Ask Big Mum'  and I will get whatever I need .  I found that is true  IF one  follows 'Law'.

[awaken]

Morality is not a difficult achievement.
In Lu Zu's definition, the definition of Shangde is the repetition of yin and yang that can directly enter the Tao.
To put it bluntly, Shangde is someone who can see the light directly.
Young people are easier.
Older people are very difficult.

 

上德不是困難的成就。
在呂祖的定義當中，上德的定義是直接可以進入道的陰陽反覆。
說白話一點，上德就是可以直接見光的人。
年輕人是比較容易的。
年紀大的人是非常困難的。

 

The wrong practice method will prevent you from entering the state of virtue.

 

而錯誤的練習方法，則會阻礙進入上德的狀態。

 

Wrong thoughts can also hinder entering the state of virtue.

 

錯誤的思想也會阻礙進入上德的狀態。

 

Being unable to enter the state of virtue does not mean that it is difficult for all people to enter the state of virtue. Some people can easily enter the state of virtue.

 

自己無法進入上德的狀態，不表示所有的人都難以進入上德的狀態，有些人是非常容易進入上德的狀態的。

 

And the way of paying too much attention to the sense of  Qi will make it difficult for a person to enter the state of virtue.
So when it is difficult for you to enter the state of virtue, you should think about the consequences of practicing the wrong method.

 

而過度把注意力放在氣感的方式，會把一個人變得難以進入上德狀態。
所以當自己很難進入上德狀態的時候，應該要思考是否練習了錯誤的方法所導致的後果。

 

If a person who already has inner awareness is misled, it will make it impossible to enter the upper virtue.

Most people are in the middle.
Very extreme upper and lower virtues are in the minority.

So when you belong to the inner awareness, but have no way to enter the Tao, you have to think about whether you have been misled.

Normally, as long as you are not an old man, you can enter the upper virtue if you practice correctly for at most three months.

 

一個已經有內在覺知的人，如果受到誤導，是會造成無法進入上德的。

大部分的人是處在中間的部分。
非常極端的上德和下德都是少數。

所以當自己是屬於有內在覺知，但是卻沒有辦法進入道的時候，就要思考是否受到誤導。

正常來說，只要不是老人，正確的練習，最多三個月，就可以進入上德。
 

 

This is the so-called foundation building in a hundred days.

 

這就是所謂的百日築基。

 

That is to say, if you have been practicing alchemy for more than three months, but you have not yet entered the upper virtue. You have every reason to suspect that something is seriously wrong with your methods or thinking.

 

也就是說，如果你練習煉金術已經超過三個月，卻還沒有進入上德。你就有足夠的理由懷疑你的方法或者思想出了嚴重的問題。
 

Edited December 25, 2022 by awaken

[DynamicEquilibrium]

On 24/12/2022 at 7:51 PM, freeform said:

This is definitely a thing in Daoism - known as De (or virtue)… as in Dao De Jing.

 

Superior virtue is known to be ‘spontaneous’ in that it’s not contrived by the mind - instead it’s something that arises naturally from a very deep aspect of ourselves… to achieve superior virtue is considered to be a very difficult accomplishment indeed…

 

Until then we’re advised to use the inferior contrived (or externally/mentally imposed) virtue - even though it’s very much inferior, it’s just better than base animal instincts…

 

It’s the base animal instincts that consumerism plays on (‘sex sells’… but so does pleasurable food… status… and power over others)… the classic ‘base desires’. The ‘automatic pilot’ for most people.

This the first approach i was initiated to along with meditation, daoyin and other practices, even got a generation name in the lineage. 

 

In one hand external work by "inferior virtue" and in the other neidan, both being interdependent for spontaneous virtue to arise at their "meeting point" as far as my experience with this approach can tell. 

 

The second one is to apply solutions and doing modifications at the "mother board" level of these base desires along with body-mind-spirit system integration practice.

 

So far i can tell it is a "scientific" way to gradually solve own individual inborn issues, or put in another way, begining the cultivation directly at their xiantian roots. 

 

Of course both approaches need traditional apprenticeship through lineage, "self initiation to traditionnal knowledge" not being a very reasonable expression...

 

Both have their own understanding and practical applications of daodejing in regards to the topic. 

 

Anyway, no matter the approach, school, lineage, teacher etc...we all have the same Master with 360° perspective in all directions, just seem to teach us in different ways, by different angles and through different channels. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by DynamicEquilibrium