Types of immortals

[ChiDragon]

  On 12/28/2022 at 6:11 AM, Master Logray said:

If you think carefully, there are so many people working hard to become a ghost, suicide, indulgence in alcohol, drugs, cigarette, bad food, dangerous games, illegal activities, over-working....

Sorry, the example that you gave, those people are not intentionally to become a ghost.

[Chang dao ling]

  On 12/28/2022 at 6:11 AM, Master Logray said:

 

If you think carefully, there are so many people working hard to become a ghost, suicide, indulgence in alcohol, drugs, cigarette, bad food, dangerous games, illegal activities, over-working....

 

 

Ghost immortal's definition is like a consolation prize for those cannot reach a heavenly immortal status.   But think deeper, those human and earthly immortals, despite having very long life, eventually die.  So they become ghost immortal, unless they reincarnate or take over another body.  Since heavenly immortal would be extremely rare, it is logical to deduct almost all immortals are ghost immortals.

What about spirit immortals? 

[damdao]

In neidan texts nobody want to become ghost immortal.

But following paths and practices that develops yin shen, the yin spirit, has as an aftermath a kind of immortality, but yin immortality, hence, you become a ghost immortal.

This a not so veiled critique to chan buddhism.

[Mithras]

  On 12/27/2022 at 6:36 PM, idquest said:

The real question is this:

What is a danger of becoming a ghost immortal from doing daoist practice incorrectly?

 

In my understanding the danger is quite high, although I haven't come across meaningful discussions about this.

“It’s like no one is there to help them, and when they help themselves it’s always when’s it’s too late to do anything”

 

A ghost immortal would always swear away from curses of combat and lethargy.

 

How is a ghost immortal different from a necromancer?
 

They consider their freedoms first and then their currency. A necromancer considers their sorrow and no one else.

 

It is an error to collapse your myth just as much as another person.

[Lairg]

  On 12/24/2022 at 5:38 AM, Chang dao ling said:

Please explain difference between human, earth, spirit,and golden immortals.

 

This does seem a bottom-up question from the perspective an Earth human - perhaps wishing to escape.

 

A top-down perspective might focus on who/what has been provided for the development of the planet and the sorts of formats such entities/initiatives might take.

 

Thus a top-down view might consider  spirit-beings that take incarnation in the various kingdoms including human, animal, nature spirit and higher deva.

 

Such spirit beings may achieve immortality much more easily than genuine Earth humans, hence increasing the categories of immortals.

 

By some accounts the Ancient of Days arrived on this planet 18 million years ago with his friends, many of which are still here.

 

The Ancient of Ancients takes a similar role in the solar system

 

 

[ChiDragon]

  On 12/28/2022 at 6:21 AM, Chang dao ling said:

What about spirit immortals? 

There is no such thing as spirit immortals. A spirit is a spirit, an immortal is an immortal. A ghost is a ghost but not a ghost immortal. Get the term straight. Please don't confuse the issue here.

[Lairg]

  On 12/30/2022 at 12:15 AM, ChiDragon said:

There is no such thing as spirit immortals

 

You surprise me.  Is physical substance suitable for the bodies of immortals?   I would have thought that all immortals are essentially spirit - producing the appearance of physicality in order to interact with humans.

 

Even ordinary humans may only appear to have dense physical bodies.   Consider how many ufo abductees report being taken straight through walls and closed windows

 

 

[ChiDragon]

  On 12/30/2022 at 12:21 AM, Lairg said:

 I would have thought that all immortals are essentially spirit

Yes, I would like to have that coming out from you. Spirit is a general term for all souls. However, I wouldn't call an immortal(仙) as a spirit.

[Lairg]

  On 12/30/2022 at 12:29 AM, ChiDragon said:

Spirit is a general term for all souls

 

I was taught there is a continuous spectrum from spirit to matter.    

 

Dividing that spectrum into planes (frequency bands) permits experiments

 

 

[awaken]

 

 

You haven't talked about 魑魅魍魎，妖魔鬼怪

 

 

According to the Chinese concept, stones can also become immortals

Sun Wukong is the stone fairy

 

 

[ChiDragon]

  On 12/30/2022 at 5:37 AM, awaken said:

 

 

You haven't talked about 魑魅魍魎，妖魔鬼怪

 

 

According to the Chinese concept, stones can also become immortals

Sun Wukong is the stone fairy

 

 

孫悞空, Sun Wukong, was committed a crime and kept in prison inside a rock for five hundred years. He was a figure from a fairy tale of 西遊記(The Journey to the West).

Edited December 30, 2022 by ChiDragon

[awaken]

Prince Nozha is also a character in the novel, and also the main god of many temples

 

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/哪吒#/media/File:Havoc_in_Heaven_at_Long_Corridor.JPG

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by awaken

[Chang dao ling]

  On 12/30/2022 at 7:09 AM, ChiDragon said:

孫悞空, Sun Wukong, was committed a crime and kept in prison inside a rock for five hundred years. He was a figure from a fairy tale of 西遊記(The Journey to the West).

According to Hindu beliefs a person can reincarnate as a rock. Mainly for heavy sins committed in previous Life

[Chang dao ling]

  On 12/30/2022 at 7:47 AM, awaken said:

Prince Nozha is also a character in the novel, and also the main god of many temples

 

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/哪吒#/media/File:Havoc_in_Heaven_at_Long_Corridor.JPG

 

 

 

I think he is a relative to jade emperor

[Chang dao ling]

  On 12/30/2022 at 7:47 AM, awaken said:

Prince Nozha is also a character in the novel, and also the main god of many temples

 

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/哪吒#/media/File:Havoc_in_Heaven_at_Long_Corridor.JPG

 

 

 

Do you watch cultivation donghua

[awaken]

  On 12/30/2022 at 2:10 PM, Chang dao ling said:

Do you watch cultivation donghua

 

 

 

I have only watched the romantic love costume series about Emperor Donghua

 

 

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/東華帝君

 

 

According to Wikipedia, Emperor Donghua started after the Quanzhen Sect, not the ancient gods in ancient legends

 

 

"Wang Chongyang and his disciples did not mention Emperor Donghua. In the Quanzhen sect, it was Wang Chuyi (1142-1217), one of the Seven Truths, who first enshrined Emperor Donghua together with the ancestors of Quanzhen. Wang Chuyi claimed that when he was 7 years old, he met Emperor Donghua calling out to the police in the air, and he recognized him as the enlightenment master. Later, he worshiped Wang Chongyang as his teacher."

 

『王重陽及其弟子原沒有談及東華帝君，全真教中，首先將東華帝君與全真列祖一同供奉的是七真之一王處一(1142-1217)。王處一自稱7歲時，遇東華帝君在空中警喚，認作啟蒙神師，後來他再拜王重陽為師。』

 

So Emperor Donghua is the god Wang-Chuyi himself wants to worship.

 

所以東華帝君是王處一自己想要拜的神

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by awaken

[Chang dao ling]

  On 12/31/2022 at 1:04 AM, awaken said:

 

 

 

I have only watched the romantic love costume series about Emperor Donghua

 

 

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/東華帝君

 

 

According to Wikipedia, Emperor Donghua started after the Quanzhen Sect, not the ancient gods in ancient legends

 

 

"Wang Chongyang and his disciples did not mention Emperor Donghua. In the Quanzhen sect, it was Wang Chuyi (1142-1217), one of the Seven Truths, who first enshrined Emperor Donghua together with the ancestors of Quanzhen. Wang Chuyi claimed that when he was 7 years old, he met Emperor Donghua calling out to the police in the air, and he recognized him as the enlightenment master. Later, he worshiped Wang Chongyang as his teacher."

 

『王重陽及其弟子原沒有談及東華帝君，全真教中，首先將東華帝君與全真列祖一同供奉的是七真之一王處一(1142-1217)。王處一自稱7歲時，遇東華帝君在空中警喚，認作啟蒙神師，後來他再拜王重陽為師。』

 

So Emperor Donghua is the god Wang-Chuyi himself wants to worship.

 

所以東華帝君是王處一自己想要拜的神

 

 

Watch taoism grandmaster it is a wonderful series

[awaken]

Maybe a hundred years later, there will be an Iron Man Immortal in the temple

[Wu Ming Jen]

What is a ghost immortal?

The ghost immortal is the lowest of the five immortals. It arises from the center of yin. It's spirits image is not bright. The ghost gate has no character,  This is the end with nowhere to return to. One who has stopped developing and is lost. 

 A person who practices but didn't know the way at the beginning and wants fast progress.  

 

Someone that has  developed the yin spirit, and is heled into the spirit of the emotions, not the pure Yang immortality. 

 

Because intention and yin spirit, One becomes a ghost. 

The ghost may be called an immortal, but It is really a ghost. From the ancient to now, many students  practice in this way. Compared to achieving the way, it is honestly laughable.

[Chang dao ling]

  On 1/7/2023 at 11:05 PM, Wu Ming Jen said:

What is a ghost immortal?

The ghost immortal is the lowest of the five immortals. It arises from the center of yin. It's spirits image is not bright. The ghost gate has no character,  This is the end with nowhere to return to. One who has stopped developing and is lost. 

 A person who practices but didn't know the way at the beginning and wants fast progress.  

 

Someone that has  developed the yin spirit, and is heled into the spirit of the emotions, not the pure Yang immortality. 

 

Because intention and yin spirit, One becomes a ghost. 

The ghost may be called an immortal, but It is really a ghost. From the ancient to now, many students  practice in this way. Compared to achieving the way, it is honestly laughable.

I think all 8 Immortals are Yang Immortals. What do you say?

[Taomeow]

  On 12/27/2022 at 6:36 PM, idquest said:

The real question is this:

What is a danger of becoming a ghost immortal from doing daoist practice incorrectly?

 

In my understanding the danger is quite high, although I haven't come across meaningful discussions about this.

 

 

It is a translation of a classic from the 10th century, and this particular subject is meaningfully discussed therein.  (Warning: Immortal Chung's opinion on the methods and practices resulting in ghost immortality may ruffle some Buddhist feathers.)

 

  Seekers of "pure yang" should also pause and think -- e.g. about the fact that tao of the alchemical classics is "muddled," not "pure," much less "pure yang."  "Ordinary people are clear and bright, I alone am dim and muddled." -- Laozi  

[Wu Ming Jen]

  On 1/8/2023 at 9:12 AM, Chang dao ling said:

I think all 8 Immortals are Yang Immortals. What do you say?

Yes

[Wu Ming Jen]

  On 1/8/2023 at 4:47 PM, Taomeow said:

 

 

It is a translation of a classic from the 10th century, and this particular subject is meaningfully discussed therein.  (Warning: Immortal Chung's opinion on the methods and practices resulting in ghost immortality may ruffle some Buddhist feathers.)

 

  Seekers of "pure yang" should also pause and think -- e.g. about the fact that tao of the alchemical classics is "muddled," not "pure," much less "pure yang."  "Ordinary people are clear and bright, I alone am dim and muddled." -- Laozi  

I also much agree. The balance of energies is far more important then extremes. The quote counter balances a mortal's view compared to a true sage. The ordinary person has everything figured out. That is a shame to be in that position IMO

[Wu Ming Jen]

There is no yang without yin. They should be in love with each other.

[Chang dao ling]

  On 1/8/2023 at 10:02 PM, Wu Ming Jen said:

I also much agree. The balance of energies is far more important then extremes. The quote counter balances a mortal's view compared to a true sage. The ordinary person has everything figured out. That is a shame to be in that position IMO

Thanks for the book