Problems with the Foundational Posture in Damo Mitchell's Comprehensive Nei Gong Guide

[Master Logray]

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

 

Oh and it’s worth mentioning that these days a lot of these forms have been adapted by many to ‘look cool’ - bigger, wider, more flexible/acrobatic - negating the original purpose.

 

Great French translated names!   

 

These days.....  In China they employ a lot of top athletics to teach Taichi and similar stuff, in these bigger, wider, acrobatic moves.  They are beautiful but no use in combat, nor health.  In fact many suffer from long term problems after learning from these teachers.

 

 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

On 24/12/2022 at 7:24 PM, MetaDao said:

 entry point.

 

 

A "Big name" most often acts as an "anti-tao block",  preventing the bearer and her/his following to enter the gate or opening.

These energy practices amplify the self, they do not make it smaller and smaller no matter the coat of fake humility, benevolence, knowledge, skills and wisdom it can wear. 

How something too big can go through a crack as tiny as the tip of a pine needle and lead close or far following to its entry point?

 

Based on their purposes, practices are some kind of shapes to give form to something formless, what if the intangible parts of a self remain sick, disintegrated, disharmonized and so on ? What if practice becomes nothing more than a way to give more tangible form to these diseases and their deleterious effects?

 

If writing on anonymous forums is a part of one's practice, what words are realy giving form to? Diseases are something infectious and becoming the transmitter of own diseases or those of one's "teacher" has really nothing appealing in my opinion.

 

According to the possible problems mentioned above, a taoist approach to  "practice" by any shapes may then be seen as a kind of effort of self healing by the ways of a very specialized medecine and at the same time a way to get more and more integrated as a healthy "one", making this "one" smaller and smaller, closer and closer to the entry point each day.

Edited December 26, 2022 by DynamicEquilibrium

[Wilhelm]

5 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

These energy practices amplify the self, they do not make it smaller and smaller no matter the coat of fake humility, benevolence, knowledge, skills and wisdom it can wear. 

I think this is something worth considering for the super long-long-long-term, but I don't think its a good idea for most people to begin with stripping away the self - considering the amount of mental and physical health issues alone, the average person is probably more likely to damage themselves in the process.

 

This is how I understand DDJ 36, anyways:

 

If you're gonna let go of something you've got to build it up first. (paraphrasing - comparative translation below.  The implication being something you're averse to such as your own weaknesses will be impossible to be let go of due to the aversion you feel towards them)

 

 

Edit: thinking about it some more, I suppose it would be better to be releasing things holding you back as you build up positive qualities in the self.  I think I'd maintain that the building up is necessary, but not that it need to go build->release so linearly, as my message implied at first

Edited December 26, 2022 by Wilhelm

[Sahaja]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:11 AM, NoOne said:

So, after the "Magus of Java" turned more into an anime than genuine neikung, I decided to look into Damo Mitchell for getting some beginner exercises/foundation work for neidan/gong/kung.

 

Seems he is liked here on the forums. I'm going through his "Comprehensive Guide to Nei Gong" book. There is a lot of theory; perhaps too much theory. Apart from being long-winded, I had hoped that all that theory was a good sign; unfortunately, I've come to a bit of a snag.

 

I am at chapter 4: preparing the body. Here he speaks of how crucial the correct foundations are for making any progression in neigong:

 

 

And of those important foundations is "Wuji":

 

 

 

So, we can see he really stresses this Wuji posture as very important foundational work.

 

The second part of getting down Wuji posture, after the feet, is getting the knees right. 

 

 

It would seem the center of gravity is crucial for working the lower Dan tian. And Damo says the key is to bend the knees to lower the center of gravity to the Dan tian, so it may be worked properly.

 

Unless I'm missing something here, that isn't how center of gravity works. The center of gravity is already in the lower abdomen when standing upright. Bending the knees only lowers it further. 

 

A simple Google search can show anyone this: https://www.google.com/search?q=center+of+gravity+upright&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA740CA740&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLhtXBi5L8AhVHAjQIHTcqD6gQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1745&bih=890&dpr=1.1

 

Here is a screenshot from the page from Damo's book I am referring to:

 

https://ibb.co/pf1dBMR

 

To write a book as in-depth as Damo's is not so easy; he is clearly a bright guy. But this kind of mistake in part of what is apparently the most important and fundamental aspect of Nei Gong, from which all other progress will derive from, is quite the blunder. 

 

Technically, if we follow Damo's advice we will be shooting our center of gravity away from the lower Dan tian.

 

So, it is now hard for me to know if the rest of the book is worth pursuing/accurate.

 

As neigong protocol seems to be very dependent on meticulous following of procedure, if I am to follow Damo's examples here technically it would seem my entire foundation will be wrong, and as Damo puts it, I won't be able to progress without getting the foundation correct.

 

I don't want to come off as nit-picky, but again, as Damo states, this beginning standing posture seems to be very important to get right:

 

 

What are others thoughts on this?

 

My two cents on this - don’t know if this is how it works for others so caveat emptor

 

I would say this one is found through practice more than in a book. More a somatic experience than an intellectual one. More from listening to the chi sink than visualizing or conceptualizing  a center of gravity. I think it’s more readily found when you are not looking for it.  Once you do make that connection it becomes more readily apparent.

[searcher7977]

10 hours ago, freeform said:

I’m not a martial arts expert at all. One of my teachers did teach some gong fu and Taiji - but I did it more as exercise (and to ‘prove myself’) than to actually get good at gong fu…

 

From what I understood - pretty much all ‘forms’ are basically building specific shapes in your structure - muscles and ligaments…

 

Its like you make the muscles strong in certain shapes… you make the tendons engage in a certain way during forms practice… but during actual sparring - it looks nothing like forms, because they’re just using the shapes and strength from the forms in a more natural fighting style.

 

You don’t tend to pull out these big wide stances in actual combat at all.

 

Oh and it’s worth mentioning that these days a lot of these forms have been adapted by many to ‘look cool’ - bigger, wider, more flexible/acrobatic - negating the original purpose.

 

Have a look in the image above at the Ma Bu (horse stance) - this is the modern wushu version with thighs parallel to the ground.

 

Theres similar concepts with movement too… for instance in sparring combat, you would not be throwing a punch from your waist height with your legs in a wide gong bu.

 

 

But repeating these forms thousands of times builds their mechanics into the body in such a way that for example you’d naturally start to use the power from the ground through the hip up to the fist - even when in a much smaller, more ‘natural’ fighting stance.

 

Generally stance training builds postural muscles/soft tissues - and moving forms build the explosive, or ‘movement‘ muscles and tissues.

 

Ah I understand, thank you! I can actually also offer some experience if this is the case. I used to practice (modern) martial arts, particularly the popular ones like BJJ, boxing, and muay thai. Once I started practicing tai chi and moving from the kwa, I noticed when throwing punches and kicks, I could feel rotation and sinking from the kwa. Honestly I don't know what tf I was doing before, because this seemed like the best way to throw a punch. I've only ever seen this taught once before by a semi-pro boxer. Perhaps at the elite levels everyone knows this, but I certainly didn't. 

 

Likewise, even during every day walking I could (still can) feel the weight (or lack thereof) with every step, likely due to the almost complete weight shifting I was taught in taijiquan (100/0 or 90-10 not 70/30). It was a completely new perspective in terms of balance. 

Thank you again for your response c:

[ChiDragon]

47 minutes ago, searcher7977 said:

Likewise, even during every day walking I could (still can) feel the weight (or lack thereof) with every step, likely due to the almost complete weight shifting I was taught in taijiquan (100/0 or 90-10 not 70/30). It was a completely new perspective in terms of balance. 

IMO When walking, the weight distribution is 100/0 from one leg to the other.
In Taijiquan, the stance is required to have both legs on the floor or ground. Generally, The weight distribution front leg vs back leg is 70/30 or 60/40.

[ChiDragon]

18 hours ago, freeform said:

 

 

This is a typical Xiaolin stance, It is a taboo for Taijiquan is because it locks up the body in that position. It makes very difficult for one leg or the other to be lifted easily. It was known as 雙重,  double weight.

Edited December 27, 2022 by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

8 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

I think this is something worth considering for the super long-long-long-term, but I don't think its a good idea for most people to begin with stripping away the self - considering the amount of mental and physical health issues alone, the average person is probably more likely to damage themselves in the process.

 

Yes indeed, this is why "self healing by the ways of a very specialized medecine" may be a prerequisite. Removing the "fake" and seeing the real underlying situation can be disaster.  

 

Repaired and healed Nature would take off its clothes all alone naturally and walk around naked happy to breath fresh air in its recovered oneness anyway haha!

Oneness means Nature, self, name, thoughts, emotions, speech, behaviours, actions...everything as one, no separations, no differentiations, and such "one" can be called "true". So, a person giving form to such oneness by embodying it through the whole body-mind-spirit-system and every steps on the Way can be called a "true man". "One" means smaller and smaller, like a tiny unbreakable diamond the size of a grain millet, it also means peace, balance, harmony, clarified deep aspirations and direction to take to make them concretize in the real life.

 

If i may give a definition to the term "practice", i would say practice is an answer by action to the fundamental need individuals have to unifiy in order to be able to embody in the world what they are individually in essence, so practice by this definition is always something highly individualized.

 

Imagine you spend ten years or more practicing something from a dehumanized online school, and then one day you realise it wasn't what you really wanted to do and that it didn't helped you in any ways to achieve what you realize now being really meanigful to you only.

It could be another kind of disaster, so yes, maybe better sometimes to stay well dressed to keep the sterile selfinquiry warm until death.

 

8 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

 

This is how I understand DDJ 36, anyways:

 

If you're gonna let go of something you've got to build it up first. (paraphrasing - comparative translation below.  The implication being something you're averse to such as your own weaknesses will be impossible to be let go of due to the aversion you feel towards them)

 

 

Edit: thinking about it some more, I suppose it would be better to be releasing things holding you back as you build up positive qualities in the self.  I think I'd maintain that the building up is necessary, but not that it need to go build->release so linearly, as my message implied at first

 

Nature is a subconscious part of self, if self is a robot, then Nature is the program, this kind of "loop" relationship, so repair the program first then robot will change positively and self may even begin to participate to Nature's healing, conversely give power to a defective program and therefore robot, it will only make things worse, this is why earlier i wrote:

"A "Big name" most often acts as an "anti-tao block",  preventing the bearer and her/his following to enter the gate or opening.

These energy practices amplify the self, they do not make it smaller and smaller no matter the coat of fake humility, benevolence, knowledge, skills and wisdom it can wear."

 

"Big names" teachers are all heavy dressed if we look closely, just like the crazy people we give power to and elect as our rulers.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wilhelm]

1 hour ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

"Big names" teachers are all heavy dressed if we look closely, just like the crazy people we give power to and elect as our rulers.

I don't quite understand the aversion to successful teachers as a rule in and of itself, but I can appreciate a very many have better marketing than they have skill, and I very much enjoyed the rest of your post.  Thanks

Edited December 27, 2022 by Wilhelm

[awaken]

Many people are obsessed with the possible effects of these movements, but they don't know that these movements will naturally appear in spontaneous exercises, and they have actual benefits, and they also have special functions that will naturally evolve.

 

 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

6 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

I don't quite understand the aversion to successful teachers as a rule in and of itself, but I can appreciate a very many have better marketing than they have skill, and I very much enjoyed the rest of your post.  Thanks

 

Respect to them for achieving their goals actually, what i wished to outline was: participating in acheiving teachers/schools goals in a co-dependent mode vs recieving their help for better self-design to achieve our deep individual aspirations in a free mode.

 

Thank you for the exchange!

Edited December 27, 2022 by DynamicEquilibrium

[awaken]

7 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

 

 

Imagine you spend ten years or more practicing something from a dehumanized online school, and then one day you realise it wasn't what you really wanted to do and that it didn't helped you in any ways to achieve what you realize now being really meanigful to you only.

 

 

 

I'm the kind of person you said
I spent 15 years learning various methods
Then one day I suddenly discovered that these methods are completely useless
Since that day, I will not look for a teacher

Six years after that day, I finally hit my big break

 

[Barnaby]

On 12/25/2022 at 9:59 AM, freeform said:

it should take only very moderate effort to stay in horse stance… and you could do it for hours without too much muscle strain.

 

And that's pretty much what we did in the Wu family nei gong I was taught. Not entirely without muscle strain for me, though...  

[Barnaby]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:37 PM, searcher7977 said:

likely due to the almost complete weight shifting I was taught in taijiquan (100/0 or 90-10 not 70/30)

 

Wu style ?

 

On 12/26/2022 at 11:37 PM, ChiDragon said:

Generally, The weight distribution front leg vs back leg is 70/30 or 60/40.

 

In Yang style, maybe...

 

Not in Wu.

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

In Yang style, maybe..

Yes, I only practice the Yang style. All my reference is based on the Yang style. It is wise to stay with one style to avoid conflicts with others.

Edited December 27, 2022 by ChiDragon

[Barnaby]

On 12/26/2022 at 2:31 PM, DynamicEquilibrium said:

A "Big name" most often acts as an "anti-tao block",  preventing the bearer and her/his following to enter the gate or opening.

These energy practices amplify the self, they do not make it smaller and smaller no matter the coat of fake humility, benevolence, knowledge, skills and wisdom it can wear. 

 

In the light of recent threads – and aided by the time of the year – I've been thinking about this a lot.

 

Recent discussions here have heightened my misgivings about purely "energy" practices. I've got some experience in them. I've derived a lot of benefit. I'm more relaxed. I have more energy. I think they've contributed to freeing up some emotional blockages, enabling me to feel more in control of my life. But if I've made any "spiritual" progress over that period, I think it's been as a result of something completely different.

 

What is "spiritual", anyway? I think it's something to do with reassessing your relationship with the universe, and then using that reassessment to transform your relationship with the other occupants of this planet. In that latter sense, it has an inherently moral component. It's to do with the way you behave.

 

There have been ample examples on here lately of how people can be all fired up on their energy practice, and still behave like total arseholes. Nei dan/nei gong/qi gong etc does not appear to be a magic bullet in that respect.

 

 Because at root, the spiritual is about reducing one's sense of self-importance. Questioning – not amplifying – the self.

 

Hexagram 54, the Image (Wilhelm):

Thus the superior man

Understands the transitory

In the light of the eternity of the end.

 

In my experience, the only thing that gives you that is meditation practice.

 

Not slow motion arm-waving with reverse breathing.

 

That's not to say that's no good, just that it's not inherently spiritual, no matter how much incense, gongs, ethnic garb and ethereal flute music you dress it up with. For me, it's only serious meditation that can lead you to question your assumptions about the self, go beyond them, and thus reassess the basis of your relationships with other manifested beings.

 

So as far as this is concerned:

 

On 12/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, Wilhelm said:

I think this is something worth considering for the super long-long-long-term, but I don't think its a good idea for most people to begin with stripping away the self - considering the amount of mental and physical health issues alone, the average person is probably more likely to damage themselves in the process.

 

...it's like, well, what do you want? Is it just some sort of feel-good hobby? Or is it real spiritual transformation? Because if it's spiritual transformation, it strikes me that you need to start stripping away the self right now. 

 

I actually think that the volunteer at your local homeless shelter is probably more "spiritual" than your average nei dan/nei gong practitioner. Because, by necessity, they checked their ego at the door. 

 

And the "big names" that I'm aware of aren't encouraging people to do that. They want their students to go on working in investment banks, so they can go on buying their courses. It's a business. The ones I know of all started out as boxing teachers anyway.

 

But who's going to pay 2, 3, 4, 5 grand a year to learn how to box? Not many, right?

 

But what if you tell them you're going to help them sanctify their immortal souls? How many then? 

 

 

[Wilhelm]

16 hours ago, Barnaby said:

What is "spiritual", anyway? 

This is a great post and I'm just pointing out a couple things from my point of view

 

Spiritual is a funny word, cause as far as I can tell most people use it to mean the positive aspects of psychology i.e. improving relations with yourself, your community, and Universe.  I think it depends on your definition of Spirit, but that could probably all check out.

Quote

There have been ample examples on here lately of how people can be all fired up on their energy practice, and still behave like total arseholes. Nei dan/nei gong/qi gong etc does not appear to be a magic bullet in that respect.

Yeah that's a real thing and I'm one of those guys - mo energy mo emotions 

Quote

In my experience, the only thing that gives you that is meditation practice.

 

Not slow motion arm-waving with reverse breathing.

I think so too.  I'm just shit at meditation so I'm building up the body/mind interface as kind of a backdoor route to get into that.

 

Meditation before energy work started out as this dull pursuit of subtle sensations in the body where my mind would slip between being too lethargic and too lost in mundane thoughts.

 

Nowadays, especially when it's tuned up from the energy work, it stabilizes into the object for a little while, and stays calm and focused.

 

Quote

...it's like, well, what do you want? Is it just some sort of feel-good hobby? 

Is that what Nei Gong is?  😅

 

Maybe for some people.  I often find the training a lot less pleasant than that (though it's kind of like the unpleasantness of doing a good workout - you come out the other end grateful you pushed it)

Quote

I actually think that the volunteer at your local homeless shelter is probably more "spiritual" than your average nei dan/nei gong practitioner. Because, by necessity, they checked their ego at the door. 

I think volunteering at a local homeless shelter will help build the sorts of mental qualities that would be useful in meditation, and Id be interested in hearing your definition of Spirit to comment more!

Quote

And the "big names" that I'm aware of aren't encouraging people to do that. They want their students to go on working in investment banks, so they can go on buying their courses. It's a business. The ones I know of all started out as boxing teachers anyway.

 

But who's going to pay 2, 3, 4, 5 grand a year to learn how to box? Not many, right?

 

But what if you tell them you're going to help them sanctify their immortal souls? How many then? 

The guy who's system I study is becoming a big name 😅 so I wanna know who you're talking about so I don't get defensive over something you didn't intend 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Wilhelm

[Master Logray]

15 hours ago, Barnaby said:

What is "spiritual", anyway? I think it's something to do with reassessing your relationship with the universe, and then using that reassessment to transform your relationship with the other occupants of this planet. In that latter sense, it has an inherently moral component. It's to do with the way you behave.

 

In my experience, the only thing that gives you that is meditation practice.

 

Then your definition of spiritual has nothing to do with spirits or the worlds of spirits?   Isn't that similar to ethics, morality?

 

 

[Nungali]

Interesting question .  By the nature of the word , one would think 'having to do with spirits'  would be the main definition of the word .

 

Most people seem to have a rather vague but  inclusive idea about spirituality ... yet it usually  not associated or even precludes  'spirits' themselves .

 

I avoid the term in describing my own practices .... yet it has everything to do with  'the world of spirits' .    But English is a terrible language  and a  very limited terminology for these practices  .... even if I try to use a combination of English words to describe it ; spiritual, ethical, philosophical, spirit world , connected , energetic, nature based   ... or even a  descriptive paragraph   nope .

 

But one word can encompass all that , and a lot more and is directly related to my practice  -    Alcheringa or   Tjukurrpa ( a different language version of the same term )  .

 

Wikipedia made  a decent attempt at it :

 

Firstly  " eternal, uncreated"    ( that might seem interesting from the Daoist perspective . ) ...

 

" an all-embracing concept that provides rules for living, a moral code, as well as rules for interacting with the natural environment ... [it] provides for a total, integrated way of life ... a lived daily reality". It embraces past, present and future.^[4] Another definition suggests that it represents "the relationship between people, plants, animals and the physical features of the land; the knowledge of how these relationships came to be, what they mean and how they need to be maintained in daily life and in ceremony".^[5]  ... ( one's ) ...own law and related cultural knowledge systems ... A dreaming is often associated with a particular place, and may also belong to specific ages, gender or skin groups. "

 

Living in a 'particular place ' and being connected to sacred land and 'spirits'   is  rather hard to avoid here   living under the gaze of 'Ngali'  -  ' The old man - watcher  '  ;

 

 

 

- The 'Bump' on the left ;   long thick dreads and  beard , looking to the left, the west .

 

 

[freeform]

16 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Then your definition of spiritual has nothing to do with spirits or the worlds of spirits?   Isn't that similar to ethics, morality?

 

 

Yes - to me spirituality is to do not just with spirits… but with Spirit… or the divine within you.

 

Ethics, virtue and morality are key - but they are not spirituality - they’re just a way for us to imitate spiritual qualities in a way that makes it more attractive for Spirit to enter our ‘temple’.

 

Anything pure can be ruined with even a tiny drop of poison… and as imperfect beings, we will and we do poison virtue all the time. That’s fine - that is the nature of our existence on this manifest plane.
 

The virtuous are not necessarily spiritual… but the truly spiritual (where the divine is fully expressing through them continuously) are indeed always what we’d call virtuous… 

Edited December 29, 2022 by freeform

[searcher7977]

On 12/27/2022 at 5:42 PM, Barnaby said:

 

Wu style ?

 

 

In Yang style, maybe...

 

Not in Wu.

 

Yes actually!

[DynamicEquilibrium]

On 28/12/2022 at 4:39 PM, Master Logray said:

 

Then your definition of spiritual has nothing to do with spirits or the worlds of spirits?   Isn't that similar to ethics, morality?

 

 

 

Interesting question!

 

I see spirituality as the application of spirit in real life by action, spirit being to me a transcultural, transpersonal, transeverything formless "Breath", neither good or bad and so on.

 

Virtuous or evil usage of spirit may mostly depend on the physical and psycho-emotional dimensions "blueprints" (xing ming) of human being.

 

It may sound to be a weird point of view, but  the largest scale genocides in history were done by very very spiritual people in my opinion, it's just that they made use of the large amounts of Breath they had in the most evil ways.

 

Empathy with the spiritual nature (ling xing) of all living beings is another aspect of spirituality to me, even with a blade of grass or an ant, then spirituality could evovle into "unification of Heaven and man" (tian ren he yi) , at this level we may have access to an ocean of informations, some kind of celestial internet.

 

Wuji posture can gather spirit Breath, since taiji would always give form to wuji through yinyang five elements, taiji posture could be a better starting point to rewrite a healthy circuit, then spirit breath may circulate better between "heaven and earth".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by DynamicEquilibrium

[Wilhelm]

1 hour ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

 

With that framework, how would you differentiate spirit from 'power' (or Qi, if you prefer)

[DynamicEquilibrium]

2 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

With that framework, how would you differentiate spirit from 'power' (or Qi, if you prefer)

 

From wuji to taiji happens original differentiation so we would get different types of what was originaly a unique Breath, a bit like the Babel tower's spell. 

 

By this model spirit is very close to if not the same concept as Life as the intangible phenomenom animating all living beings.

 

[Barnaby]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:44 PM, Wilhelm said:

I think so too.  I'm just shit at meditation so I'm building up the body/mind interface as kind of a backdoor route to get into that.

 

Meditation before energy work started out as this dull pursuit of subtle sensations in the body where my mind would slip between being too lethargic and too lost in mundane thoughts.

 

Nowadays, especially when it's tuned up from the energy work, it stabilizes into the object for a little while, and stays calm and focused.

 

Sorry, only just found time to respond to this properly.

 

There are people here with more experience of meditation than me, but my tuppence ha'penny... 

 

Maybe some people have a natural gift, but I'd assume that meditation is hard for most people at first. For the ego-mind, it's an unnatural activity. The old taming-the-monkey thing. The mind wants to think it's right to be hopping from one imagined preoccupation to another, and it takes time and subtle effort to change that. But it is something you can train, just like physical training. So if you're interested, I'd encourage you to fit it into your daily practice from the get-go, however inconclusive it might feel at first. You'll be progressing, even if it feels like you're not.

 

If you're getting enough sleep, lethargy is usually another tactic used by the ego-mind to escape the practice. It's good to find counter-tactics to confront it and get beyond it.

 

The energy work definitely helps, in my experience. The more energy you've got, the more physically fit and supple, the deeper you'll be able to go into your meditation practice.

 

On 12/28/2022 at 1:44 PM, Wilhelm said:

Id be interested in hearing your definition of Spirit to comment more!

 

I tried to provide this a bit in my last post. It's a hard thing to put into words. It's something which is infinitely bigger than you (as an ego-driven, mortal, manifested being), which can be experienced in states of non-duality, and which exerts a transformative effect via that experience. It's the opposite of ego consciousness. Not a very satisfactory definition, huh?   

 

On 12/28/2022 at 1:44 PM, Wilhelm said:

The guy who's system I study is becoming a big name 😅 so I wanna know who you're talking about so I don't get defensive over something you didn't intend 

 

I don't really feel like naming names in public. Doesn't feel right, somehow. But I have come to suspect that all the "big names" are probably pretty similar, if you scratch beneath the surface of their personal idiosyncrasies enough