Upper dantian

[Chang dao ling]

In neidan and Qigong  we mostly meditate on lower dantian. However people who practice third eye meditation concentrate on upper dantian. My doubt is person who meditate on lower dantian refine jing to chi. Person who meditate on upper dantian what he is refining. 

[awaken]

There is no such thing as the entrance is not opened, what kind of dantian can a person specialize in, can you believe in bragging?

[Chang dao ling]

45 minutes ago, awaken said:

There is no such thing as the entrance is not opened, what kind of dantian can a person specialize in, can you believe in bragging?

My doubt is some people meditate on agna chakra which is upper dantian. By meditation on lower dantian we refine jing to chi. So person who meditate on agna chakra what is he refining?

[awaken]

That's focusing on the head, it's a wrong practice, it can cause sickness

 

 

The dantian is only produced from the appearance of the black liver light
Only the state of qi sense does not have dantian
It can only be said to be concentrated somewhere in the body

This kind of practice method of concentrating on a certain part of the body to generate a specific sense of energy is very easy to damage the body

Edited December 27, 2022 by awaken

[Chang dao ling]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

That's focusing on the head, it's a wrong practice, it can cause sickness

 

 

The dantian is only produced from the appearance of the black liver light
Only the state of qi sense does not have dantian
It can only be said to be concentrated somewhere in the body

This kind of practice method of concentrating on a certain part of the body to generate a specific sense of energy is very easy to damage the body

Okay thanks

[idquest]

On 25/12/2022 at 2:13 AM, Chang dao ling said:

In neidan and Qigong  we mostly meditate on lower dantian. However people who practice third eye meditation concentrate on upper dantian. My doubt is person who meditate on lower dantian refine jing to chi. Person who meditate on upper dantian what he is refining. 

 

A Third eye is not the same as the upper dantien. When somebody works on the 3rd eye, this is not necessarily the work on the UDT, although it may coincide.

When somebody works on the UDT, they may work either up or down. If down, they go from shen to qi. If up - they go from shen to wuji. At least this is how I understand things.

It is not advisable to work on the UDT until you get at least basic understanding of how LDT and MDT work.

[awaken]

Seeing the most primary light is not working on the upper dantian

Seeing images is not the third eye, it is the operation of the cerebral cortex

The upper dantian must be opened after the lower dantian and middle dantian are both opened

When the upper dantian is opened, there will be a huge and complex mandala

It is impossible for the upper dantian to work alone

 

看見最初級的光並不是在上丹田運作

看見影像也不是第三眼，那是大腦皮質層的運作

上丹田的開啟必須是下丹田和中丹田都開啟之後

上丹田的開啟，一定會出現巨大複雜的曼陀羅

上丹田不可能單獨運作

[exorcist_1699]

On 2022/12/25 at 6:13 PM, Chang dao ling said:

In neidan and Qigong  we mostly meditate on lower dantian. However people who practice third eye meditation concentrate on upper dantian. My doubt is person who meditate on lower dantian refine jing to chi. Person who meditate on upper dantian what he is refining. 

 

Conventional path is that at  the lower dantian people cultivate jing and qi  , then after accomplish it ,  as qi having risen up and changed  , people  then start cultivating shen ( some kind of delicate mindless Mind or 3rd eye ) at the upper dantian  ;  however , in some special cases,  people can start straightforward to pay attention to their upper dantian ,skipping the lower dantian cultivation stage , and cultivate their shen without seemingly worry about jing and qi  ;  in fact, Taoists view Zen-type of cultivation that kind of an attempt of jump , despite most people fail .

[Chang dao ling]

1 hour ago, exorcist_1699 said:

 

Conventional path is that at  the lower dantian people cultivate jing and qi  , then after accomplish it ,  as qi having risen up and changed  , people  then start cultivating shen ( some kind of delicate mindless Mind or 3rd eye ) at the upper dantian  ;  however , in some special cases,  people can start straightforward to pay attention to their upper dantian ,skipping the lower dantian cultivation stage , and cultivate their shen without seemingly worry about jing and qi  ;  in fact, Taoists view Zen-type of cultivation that kind of an attempt of jump , despite most people fail .

I am doing Mantra meditation. Which is chanting a Mantra very slowly barely audible to the person who is chanting with awareness on the upper dantian. What is your opinion 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Chang dao ling

[exorcist_1699]

On 2023/2/10 at 7:01 PM, Chang dao ling said:

I am doing Mantra meditation. Which is chanting a Mantra very slowly barely audible to the person who is chanting with awareness on the upper dantian. What is your opinion 

 

This is okay if  you use it just as a way of constraining your fluctuating minds ( ' use one idea to take the place of thousands of  other ideas' (' 一念代萬念  '  )  ); in that case , whatever name  you chant it  in :  Buddha/Jesus Christ / Allah..., is no difference . However whether this  can mobilize qi  or allow you to consolidate into a mindless Mind is hardly to tell , in  most cases, I would say :  'not likely '   . In fact, hardly can  such type of   Pure Land way  help you mobilize energy ( jing and qi ) unless you can  do it " skillfully"  ; that means, you  have to go down into emptiness deep enough , at a depth capable of  ' echoing '  the background , ubiquitous Buddha Heart/ Cosmic Heart ( '天心') .  Also notice that sitting there straight for hours chanting whatever thing  does make you lose a lot of  the body's energy  . What you lose can be more than what you gain .

Edited May 30, 2023 by exorcist_1699

[Master Logray]

22 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

I am doing Mantra meditation. Which is chanting a Mantra very slowly barely audible to the person who is chanting with awareness on the upper dantian. What is your opinion 

 

What Mantra is that?   @exorcist_1699's comment presumes you are chanting the Buddha's name as common in Pure Land Buddhism.  But if you are chanting some ancient secret sounds as common in Hindu or Tibetan Buddhist teachings, it is different matter.  Then how the UDT fits into what you are doing, if at all, depends. 

 

In Neidan, there are 2 broad categories of cultivation, one is instant, another is step by step.  The instant methodologies are similar to Zen, often concentrates on the UDT.  While the step by step, which is most common, usually starts with LDT.   As stated by exorcist, the instant method actually is more difficult and most people fail.

 

Anyway nowadays no one will teach you concentrate on the UDT or third eye area, because it is well known to create sensation of head swelling, Chi stuck there and high blood pressure.

[Chang dao ling]

54 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

What Mantra is that?   @exorcist_1699's comment presumes you are chanting the Buddha's name as common in Pure Land Buddhism.  But if you are chanting some ancient secret sounds as common in Hindu or Tibetan Buddhist teachings, it is different matter.  Then how the UDT fits into what you are doing, if at all, depends. 

 

In Neidan, there are 2 broad categories of cultivation, one is instant, another is step by step.  The instant methodologies are similar to Zen, often concentrates on the UDT.  While the step by step, which is most common, usually starts with LDT.   As stated by exorcist, the instant method actually is more difficult and most people fail.

 

Anyway nowadays no one will teach you concentrate on the UDT or third eye area, because it is well known to create sensation of head swelling, Chi stuck there and high blood pressure.

The Mantra is Rama Mantra ( avatar of lord Vishnu on of the trinity in Hinduism) I am doing this meditation because when I concentrate on udt I am having strong magnetic pulling sensation. Because of this my thoughts are reduced greatly.

[Chang dao ling]

4 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said:

 

This is okay if  you use it just as a way of constraining your fluctuating minds ( ' use one idea to take the place of thousands of  other ideas'  ) ; in that case , whatever name  you chant it  in :  Buddha/Jesus Christ , Allah..., is no difference . However whether this  can mobilize qi  or allow you to consolidate into a mindless Mind is hardly to tell , in  most cases, not  . In fact, hardly can  such type of   Pure Land way  help you mobilize energy ( jing and qi ) unless you can  do it 'skillfully"  ; that means, you  have to go down deep enough at a depth capable of  ' echoing '  the background , ubiquitous Buddha Heart/ Cosmic Heart ( '天心') ;  Notice that sitting there straight for hours chanting does make you lose a lot of  the body's energy  . What you gain can be less than what you lost .

I am having strong magnetic pulling sensation in udt. Can I assume chi is gathering at udt?

[Master Logray]

50 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

The Mantra is Rama Mantra ( avatar of lord Vishnu on of the trinity in Hinduism) I am doing this meditation because when I concentrate on udt I am having strong magnetic pulling sensation. Because of this my thoughts are reduced greatly.

 

Your Chi follows your concentration.  If you concentrates on your index finger, you can feel it swells, getting hot etc.  It is because blood, body fluid and Chi go there.   Sometimes it could be safer to check your blood pressure during your meditation.  Those intelligent watches seem handy, though they are not accurate.

 

If you solely want to reduce thoughts, then concentrates anywhere supposedly is to be the same.  Naturally there are personal preferences too. 

 

 

[Chang dao ling]

2 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Your Chi follows your concentration.  If you concentrates on your index finger, you can feel it swells, getting hot etc.  It is because blood, body fluid and Chi go there.   Sometimes it could be safer to check your blood pressure during your meditation.  Those intelligent watches seem handy, though they are not accurate.

 

If you solely want to reduce thoughts, then concentrates anywhere supposedly is to be the same.  Naturally there are personal preferences too. 

 

 

I want to do Ldt meditation but I don't have a teacher I am from India. Can you tell me can I Do Ldt meditation without a teacher. If possible give me detail instructions on Ldt meditation. Do's and don'ts 

[awaken]

It is impossible to practice directly on the upper dantian. It's not called upper dantian when the qi goes to the head. Of course, it does not mean that Qi in the lower abdomen is called the lower dantian. To use a noun, you need to know what the original definition of the noun was. Instead of listening to the nonsense of some fake qigong masters.

 

上丹田不可能直接練。不是氣走到頭就叫做上丹田。當然也不是氣在下腹部就叫做下丹田。你們要使用一個名詞，就要了解這個名詞最初的定義是甚麼。而不是聽一些氣功假大師胡說八道。

 

 

[awaken]

32 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

I want to do Ldt meditation but I don't have a teacher I am from India. Can you tell me can I Do Ldt meditation without a teacher. If possible give me detail instructions on Ldt meditation. Do's and don'ts 

 

You may not have a teacher, but you must have a pair of bright eyes to distinguish who is telling the truth and who is telling the lie.
If you don't have bright eyes, you're better off looking at the classics.
The lower dantian comes from the appearance of the black liver light, and the black liver light comes from qi.
It is not called the lower dantian if the qi is in the lower abdomen.

If you don't understand this point clearly, you will regard the sense of qi in the lower abdomen as the lower dantian.

And Qi does not need to stay in the lower abdomen from the beginning to the end, it is completely unnecessary.
Use the acquired consciousness to stay in the lower abdomen, which is called [Shang Dan](hurt Dan). Because this behavior will lead to the failure of the real lower dantian.

 

你可以沒有老師，但你必須有一雙明亮的雙眼，可以分辨誰在說真話，誰在說假話。
如果你沒有明亮的雙眼，你最好要看經典。
下丹田來自於烏肝光的出現，烏肝光來自於氣。
不是氣在下腹部就稱為下丹田。

你如果這一點沒有搞清楚，你會把下腹部的氣感當成下丹田。

而氣根本不需要從頭到尾停留在下腹部，完全沒有必要。
把氣用後天意識停留在下腹部，稱為[傷丹]。因為這個行為會導致真正的下丹田無法產生。

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

I want to do Ldt meditation but I don't have a teacher I am from India. Can you tell me can I Do Ldt meditation without a teacher. If possible give me detail instructions on Ldt meditation. Do's and don'ts 

 

No.  You need a teacher.  Not on the method.  But you need someone to ask if something happened.

[Chang dao ling]

12 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

No.  You need a teacher.  Not on the method.  But you need someone to ask if something happened.

I agree with you. That's why I didn't started Ldt meditation by reading books. I think when MCO started if we don't have a teacher it's very dangerous. I understand this by reading the book written by DR yang jwing Ming. Do you practice LDT meditation?

[awaken]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

I agree with you. That's why I didn't started Ldt meditation by reading books. I think when MCO started if we don't have a teacher it's very dangerous. I understand this by reading the book written by DR yang jwing Ming. Do you practice LDT meditation?

 

All MCO exercises are dangerous and unnecessary.
 

 

 

 

 

[Chang dao ling]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

 

All MCO exercises are dangerous and unnecessary.
 

 

 

 

 

I think when you meditate on LDT when Ldt filled with chi it will initiate the MCO right?

[awaken]

[Qi] has its own evolution process. Using the acquired consciousness to force the Qi to be in a specific position is an act of harming the body.
The correct approach should be to let Qi evolve by itself.

 

[氣]有自己的演化歷程。用後天意識強迫氣非得要在某個特定的位置，就是一種傷害身體的行為。
正確的做法應該是讓氣自行演化。

 

2 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

I think when you meditate on LDT when Ldt filled with chi it will initiate the MCO right?

 

Not right.
The production of Dan, according to Lu Zu's definition, starts from wood. Instead of starting with water. Water is the code name for [Qi]. So in the state of [qi], there is no [lower dantian].
Your cognition is a myth created by false qigong masters, not real alchemy practice.
This behavior of fixing breathing in the lower abdomen and causing resistance to circulate throughout the body is not a correct way of practice, and it is also a kind of harm to the health of the body.

 

不對喔。
丹的產生，根據呂祖的定義，是從木開始。而不是從水開始。水就是[氣]的代號。所以在[氣]的狀態下，是沒有[下丹田]的存在。
你這個認知，是氣功假大師製造出來的迷思，並非真正的丹道修練。
這種把呼吸固定在下腹部，引發阻力在全身循環的行為，不是一種正確的修練方式，對身體健康也是一種傷害。

[Master Logray]

8 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

I agree with you. That's why I didn't started Ldt meditation by reading books. I think when MCO started if we don't have a teacher it's very dangerous. I understand this by reading the book written by DR yang jwing Ming. Do you practice LDT meditation?

 

No.  Btw, MCO can be started by simple means like muscle control, auto suggestion and visualization.  But they are of not much purpose and sometimes not good for health. 

[exorcist_1699]

On 2023/2/11 at 6:28 PM, Chang dao ling said:

I am having strong magnetic pulling sensation in udt. Can I assume chi is gathering at udt?

 

Many posts by members of this forum claim sufferings from headache , hypertension or uncontrolled flow of   qi  is mainly due to  their eagerness to gather more qi at the upper dantian, thinking that it is the way of nourishing the third- eye ,  which unfortunately not correct . In fact,   the  way of nourishing the upper dantian is quite different from the way of nourishing  the lower dantian ;  it is not an issue of  mental focus ,  more strength  that you put on it  ,  nor  is  it  any kind of visualizations .   Qi, once having risen and  reached the head, will  appear in some other forms ; some describe it  as  "water' , some may emphasize  'light ' ,  so if people still  attach to  those feelings  of  qi  they experienced before  may not be that precise ..

Edited May 30, 2023 by exorcist_1699

[exorcist_1699]

On 2023/2/11 at 5:22 PM, Master Logray said:

 

What Mantra is that?   @exorcist_1699's comment presumes you are chanting the Buddha's name as common in Pure Land Buddhism.  But if you are chanting some ancient secret sounds as common in Hindu or Tibetan Buddhist teachings, it is different matter.  Then how the UDT fits into what you are doing, if at all, depends. 

 

In Neidan, there are 2 broad categories of cultivation, one is instant, another is step by step.  The instant methodologies are similar to Zen, often concentrates on the UDT.  While the step by step, which is most common, usually starts with LDT.   As stated by exorcist, the instant method actually is more difficult and most people fail.

 

Anyway nowadays no one will teach you concentrate on the UDT or third eye area, because it is well known to create sensation of head swelling, Chi stuck there and high blood pressure.

 

Thank you for raising this . I do doubt that although Zen originates from India, quite a big chunk of its essence already lost in modern India .

Edited February 13, 2023 by exorcist_1699