Upper dantian

[Chang dao ling]

52 minutes ago, exorcist_1699 said:

 

Many posts by members of this forum claim sufferings from headache , hypertension or uncontrolled flow of   qi  is mainly due to  their eagerness to gather more qi at the upper dantian, thinking that it is the way of nourishing the third- eye ,  which unfortunately not correct . In fact,   the  way of nourishing the upper dantian is quite different from the way of nourishing  the lower dantian ;  it is not an issue of  mental focus ,  more strength  that you put on it  ,  nor  be it  any kind of visualizations .   Qi, once having risen and  reached the head, will  appear in some other forms ; some describe it  as  "water' , some may emphasize  'light ' ,  so if people still  attach to  those feelings  of  qi  they experienced before  may not be that precise ..

I am not getting headache but it took 1 to 2 hours to sleep at night sometimes. But I noticed since I started utd meditation I am taking extra time to sleep 

[Master Logray]

18 minutes ago, exorcist_1699 said:

 

Thank you for raising this . I do doubt that although Zen originates from India, quite a big chunk of its essence already lost in modern India .

 

I happen to read a magazine re Taoism in library.  It says 藏密 (tibetan buddhism) was influenced by Taoist.  And in turn 印密 (tibetan Buddhist in India), was in turn affected by Taoist methods and thinkings, but 印密 has been extinct.

[exorcist_1699]

On 2023/2/13 at 5:04 PM, Master Logray said:

 

I happen to read a magazine re Taoism in library.  It says 藏密 (tibetan buddhism) was influenced by Taoist.  And in turn 印密 (tibetan Buddhist in India), was in turn affected by Taoist methods and thinkings, but 印密 has been extinct.

 

Yeah , if talking about the emergence of them  in time order ,  it is Taoism  --> Buddhism --> Tibetan Buddhism .  

[freshpondtaiji]

in our school (Patrick Kelly student of Huang Xingxian, Mouniji Maharaj and Abdullah Dougan, Huang Xingxian student of ZMQ and according to PK both Huang and ZMQ secretly in the Quanzhen school), lower dantian is Jing to Qi, middle dantian is Qi to Shen, Upper dantian Shen to Xu.

 

We recommend focus on the middle dantian for first 10 years with a good teacher, if that energy is not refined enough trying to bring into Upper dantian could cause very serious problems.

 

The main reason we train the taiji is the lower dantian work is deeper than most beginners think so just that physical starting point is a good way to set the mind up for the meditation. It's important to sink mind deeper step by step because easy to imagine one is training much deeper than what is really happening (and the false imagination is at best useless and may even be harmful)

[salaam123]

16 hours ago, freshpondtaiji said:

in our school (Patrick Kelly student of Huang Xingxian, Mouniji Maharaj and Abdullah Dougan, Huang Xingxian student of ZMQ and according to PK both Huang and ZMQ secretly in the Quanzhen school), lower dantian is Jing to Qi, middle dantian is Qi to Shen, Upper dantian Shen to Xu.

 

We recommend focus on the middle dantian for first 10 years with a good teacher, if that energy is not refined enough trying to bring into Upper dantian could cause very serious problems.

 

The main reason we train the taiji is the lower dantian work is deeper than most beginners think so just that physical starting point is a good way to set the mind up for the meditation. It's important to sink mind deeper step by step because easy to imagine one is training much deeper than what is really happening (and the false imagination is at best useless and may even be harmful)

 

 

Is the path of the chi which is brought up the centerline?

[freshpondtaiji]

1 hour ago, salaam123 said:

(posted new one below instead of editing somehow, see reply below)

Edited April 4, 2023 by freshpondtaiji

[freshpondtaiji]

1 hour ago, salaam123 said:

 

 

Is the path of the chi which is brought up the centerline?

 

We don't think about moving the qi through the body, that's an easy way to falsely imagine things.

 

Instead we move the mind through the body, initially an awareness but have to keep looking deeper for subtler things to find the intention. Truly moving the intention through the body causes a change/response in the body--if you move the mind and nothing in the body responds that's just random imagination and not doing anything.

 

The "qi" is not what most people think it is, and in the context of Jing > Qi and Qi > Shen we're talking about an internal transformation not at all about moving something literally through the body.

 

We do move the mind up the centerline. A publicly posted vid of my teacher leading a guided meditation here:

https://www.taiji-schule.at/index.php/videos-en.html

 

and some of his notes on meditation here:

https://worldwideway.org/wwway/meditation.html

[f-man]

fg

 

Edited January 10 by f-man

[exorcist_1699]

On 2023/5/24 at 10:55 PM, f-man said:

I find that chi movement is better everywhere if I open head meridians properly

 

The tendency to avoid head area may slow one's progress

 

 

 

Cultivating the upper dantian is  a stage inevitable  as qi and jing , having accumulated enough , will naturally  rise from bottom to top . The problem  is mainly  that  most people are too eager to do it  that it becomes over-done . If there is  no yang ,  qi that gets good quality jing inside ,  then it is some kind of transportation in vain ( like you drive a truck but there is no cargo loaded  ) that no matter how hard you work ( circulate the Micro cosmic circulation ) , it is useless .  Something worse can be  that too intensive a mind you apply  makes qi distorted into " fire" , which burns/ dries   the yin aspects ( jing , blood or liquid ) of the body and conversely gives rise to many diseases , let alone enhancing your cultivation .  This is  the reason why the Master says : " 不識陰陽莫亂為" ("  If you do not know  what yin and yang really are , better not practice your cultivation carelessly " )

Edited June 20, 2023 by exorcist_1699

[effilang]

On 25/12/2022 at 10:13 AM, Chang dao ling said:

In neidan and Qigong  we mostly meditate on lower dantian. However people who practice third eye meditation concentrate on upper dantian. My doubt is person who meditate on lower dantian refine jing to chi. Person who meditate on upper dantian what he is refining. 

 

A: The idea of initiating practice in the Xia Dan Tian and moving the cauldron to the Zhong and Shang, in that order, is with the purpose of assuring that the necessary vibration of Qi is utilized to stimulate the corresponding dimension of energy associated with those centers. Thus, it would not make sense, for instance; before laying the appropriate foundation in the Xia Dan Tian, to attempt to cycle energy through the MCO - as you'd literally just be doing nothing different that what your body is already managing as an automatic process; as regards moving Qi through your mai to sustain your experience of physical reality.

 

The MCO is always open, the Ren and Du are one of the first vessels to form. They are the governors of the body's rivers. Qi has always been flowing through them. Were it not, you'd be dead. The idea is that the Qi that flows through our meridian network, before we do the right work - has a particular vibrational range which is responsible for producing specific effects in the body that are consistent with that dimension of processes. However, the full spectrum of the vibrational range of the meridians is a capacity capable of facilitating much higher vibrations of Qi - and each tick up in the vibrational strata, enables the Qi to "trigger" and catalyse a different and otherwise dormant level of function as regards our diapason of capable perception between the physical experience and the non-physical experience (somatic senses and extra somatic senses).

So, the Xia, Zhong and Shang Dan Tian all require a specific frequency of Qi to activate the complete range of their potentials. This is why there is a process and a sequence of work.

 

Having said that, these frequencies of Qi exist outside the body also - and it is possible to introduce them into the system from an external source in order to infuse and induce the respective energetic systems within to modulate their functions. In nature in particular, there are various natural sources from which the corresponding frequences can be entrained to by merging ourselves into the aura or bubble of the respective source. It is also possible to directly entrain yourself to the necessary frequency of Qi by sharing the space with or directly receiving the vibration through transmission from another being and then habituating the resonance within the body of your own consciousness, which can then be used to affect the respective areas of interest with a vibration that resonates closely enough to stimulate their non-conventional activities.

 

Those who work with the appropriate vibration in the Shang Dan Tian, will begin to enter the domain of non-physical experience and "refine" the states pertaining to loving-oneness, emptiness, god-centerdness vs self-centerdness, will consciously expand their physical awareness deeper into their non-physical counterpart and access the faculties associated with those ranges of phenomenal and non-phenomenal existence; and they will, among many other things, also reinforce reality outside of the physical range of existence in the form of a disembodied consciousness.

 

There are many doors to the Dao, beware of those who claim there is but one whose key is in their sole possession.

Edited August 6, 2023 by effilang

[Chang dao ling]

10 hours ago, effilang said:

 

A: The idea of initiating practice in the Xia Dan Tian and moving the cauldron to the Zhong and Shang, in that order, is with the purpose of assuring that the necessary vibration of Qi is utilized to stimulate the corresponding dimension of energy associated with those centers. Thus, it would not make sense, for instance; before laying the appropriate foundation in the Xia Dan Tian, to attempt to cycle energy through the MCO - as you'd literally just be doing nothing different that what your body is already managing as an automatic process; as regards moving Qi through your mai to sustain your experience of physical reality.

 

The MCO is always open, the Ren and Du are one of the first vessels to form. They are the governors of the body's rivers. Qi has always been flowing through them. Were it not, you'd be dead. The idea is that the Qi that flows through our meridian network, before we do the right work - has a particular vibrational range which is responsible for producing specific effects in the body that are consistent with that dimension of processes. However, the full spectrum of the vibrational range of the meridians is a capacity capable of facilitating much higher vibrations of Qi - and each tick up in the vibrational strata, enables the Qi to "trigger" and catalyse a different and otherwise dormant level of function as regards our diapason of capable perception between the physical experience and the non-physical experience (somatic senses and extra somatic senses).

So, the Xia, Zhong and Shang Dan Tian all require a specific frequency of Qi to activate the complete range of their potentials. This is why there is a process and a sequence of work.

 

Having said that, these frequencies of Qi exist outside the body also - and it is possible to introduce them into the system from an external source in order to infuse and induce the respective energetic systems within to modulate their functions. In nature in particular, there are various natural sources from which the corresponding frequences can be entrained to by merging ourselves into the aura or bubble of the respective source. It is also possible to directly entrain yourself to the necessary frequency of Qi by sharing the space with or directly receiving the vibration through transmission from another being and then habituating the resonance within the body of your own consciousness, which can then be used to affect the respective areas of interest with a vibration that resonates closely enough to simulate their non-conventional activities.

 

Those who work with the appropriate vibration in the Shang Dan Tian, will begin to enter the domain of non-physical experience and "refine" the states pertaining to loving-oneness, emptiness, god-centerdness vs self-centerdness, will consciously expand their physical awareness deeper into their non-physical counterpart and access the faculties associated with those ranges of phenomenal and non-phenomenal existence; and they will, among many other things, also reinforce reality outside of the physical range of existence in the form of a disembodied consciousness.

 

There are many doors to the Dao, beware of those who claim there is but one whose key is in their sole possession.

Which Qigong you practice?