Interview with Adam Mizner

[Taoist Texts]

39 minutes ago, freeform said:

Adam’s Buddhist teacher:

 

What's his name?

Edited January 1, 2023 by Taoist Texts

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

What's his name?

Luang Por Jamnian

 

[Wilhelm]

9 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Publicly I would rather not because it will be perceived as a personal attack. But I would enjoy a discussion on what a "level" even is.

These guys are obviously polarizing figures.  Wouldn't it help the discussion to know exactly what level they're at?  I think your first post already implied a personal attack, anyways, so if you didn't mean it as such it could clear that up too.

[Taoist Texts]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

Wouldn't it help the discussion to know exactly what level they're at? 

not really;)  its just my opinion its not a fact. anyone interested in my personal opinion can PM me anytime

7 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

I think your first post already implied a personal attack, anyways, so if you didn't mean it as such it could clear that up too.

i solemnly swear that it was not a personal attack

[Barnaby]

Speaking as someone with no horse in this race, I find it weird - borderline creepy - how half the threads on here end up revolving around Damo Mitchell, with instinctive defense of everything the guy says or does. Really most peculiar. If you look back through the archives, it didn’t use to be this way…

[Wilhelm]

37 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

borderline creepy

super creepy

 

Edit: possibly even conspiratorial

 

Edit2: I suspect the Illuminati™ are involved

Edited January 1, 2023 by Wilhelm

[Taoist Texts]

7 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

I find it weird - borderline creepy - how half the threads on here end up revolving around Damo Mitchell

the other half is mopai. But it is not strange to us who studied economics - a marketplace always devolves into a monopoly. such is the way of the world

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

Dear Wilhelm,

 

I tried to watch the interview but only managed 25 mins or so.  My natural English politeness and good manners coupled with my Buddhist vow to sincerely wish for the benefit of all sentient beings prevent me from saying what a dick that man, Asa, is.

 

 

i think I should apologize for this post - I am sure he is a thoroughly decent human being

[Apech]

31 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

Speaking as someone with no horse in this race, I find it weird - borderline creepy - how half the threads on here end up revolving around Damo Mitchell, with instinctive defense of everything the guy says or does. Really most peculiar. If you look back through the archives, it didn’t use to be this way…

he has a strong online presence and a knack for self marketing 

[Apech]

28 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

super creepy

 

Edit: possibly even conspiratorial

I have been on here so long I can remember all the fads we’ve been through with various cults and teachers - it will last till the next thing comes along

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Barnaby said:

Speaking as someone with no horse in this race, I find it weird - borderline creepy - how half the threads on here end up revolving around Damo Mitchell, with instinctive defense of everything the guy says or does. Really most peculiar. If you look back through the archives, it didn’t use to be this way…

Yeah I think that’s a shame. 
 

I like him, I don’t like him… I agree I disagree… he’s a businessman… I can’t believe he’s smoking a cigar! Omg he’s wearing certain clothes and not wearing others etc etc.

 

It all feels like one of those gossip magazines.

 

I’ve had plenty of knee jerk likes and dislikes of people, teachers and traditions - enough that I don’t trust them…

 

I thought Adam looks super smug and arrogant when I first came across him… so what! I know well enough how limited my reactions are.

 

I find it fascinating that rather than talking about our experience, and discussing what they talk about, we tend to prefer talking about our knee-jerk reactions about them.

 

[Geof Nanto]

Damo and Adam are both gifted teachers and I feel their power of attraction. But they are not my teachers. In the past I have studied under a number a gifted teachers and learnt much lineage based theory and practice methods. This is all vital foundational stuff. However, no teacher can show me my path. That’s something that’s unique for all of us and must be individually attained. All the teachers I’ve worked with have only been interested in showing me their system. And I’ve very much wanted to learn it. In a very real sense, as part of their transmission, they overwrite me with their lineage-based power, their lineage-based persona. This is all well and good if it’s my destiny to become a part of their lineage. And that’s what I wanted for many years, but it hasn’t been the way my life’s path has played out.

 

I read a while back from a close associate of Carl Jung’s that Jung didn’t want to overwrite anyone, yet most people who came to him wanted very much to be overwritten. That’s how I’ve been in my search for teachings, my search for meaning. Jung didn’t like that, but he accepted it as reality. He didn’t want a lineage of Jungians, yet he gained one. What he wanted was to give people insight into how Spirit tries to speak to each of us individually. He saw his role as like that of an obstetrician; he wanted to help people remove inner obstructions that were hindering their giving birth to who Nature wanted them to be – like genuine neidan practice does.

 

An associate who sometimes sat in with Jung during his consultations said that she was amazed at how Jung could listen to seemingly endless recounting of a person’s life problems and situation, and then at some point stop them and say, “That’s where Spirit is trying to contact you.” He’d give people no easy answers but rather direct them away from the false problems they thought they had and show them the deeper meaningful problems that they needed to confront. He gave them difficulty not comfort. But it was insight into the richly meaningful archetypal difficulty that’s at the core of every one of us. (In neidan we refer to this archetypal  realm as pre-Heaven.)  And although we all have it in our own unique ways, it seems to me few of us are required by Nature to confront it. This, for me a least, is so much harder to deal with than becoming part of a lineage, religion or any other sort of group. Yet without my decades of Daoist based praxis and other teachings I'd lack the inner strength and clarity I need for this inner rebirth. And, perhaps ironically given I started on the path seeking comfort, it's only through my practice that I've felt how Nature / Spirit demands this of me.

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Geof Nanto

[Barnaby]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

I like him, I don’t like him… I agree I disagree… he’s a businessman… I can’t believe he’s smoking a cigar! Omg he’s wearing certain clothes and not wearing others etc etc.

 

It all feels like one of those gossip magazines.

 

Yeah, but there has to be an element of "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" here.

 

If you devote that much effort to crafting an online public persona in what is essentially a visual medium, I don't think it's surprising if you end up attracting superficial, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous commentary. You brought it on yourself.

 

The cigars-and-whisky video I just found distasteful. Felt like a scene out of Scarface. All it was missing was the mountain of cocaine...

 

But I'm old enough to feel fazed by many aspects of modern "look at me" culture, so I'm probably not the best reference   

[freeform]

1 minute ago, Barnaby said:

If you devote that much effort to crafting an online public persona in what is essentially a visual medium, I don't think it's surprising if you end up attracting superficial, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous commentary. You brought it on yourself.

If they think that smoking cigars and drinking whiskey is the right way to craft a public persona for the spiritual marketplace - then they’re waaaay off the mark! 😅

 

I mean look how many people they’ve turned off already!
 

The topknoted, beads and crystals types get a faaar better response among the ‘spiritual seeker’ crowd.

 

I think if they really were trying to attract the most number of students possible, they’d be doing that.

 

Just look at social media - Adam and Damo have an absolutely minuscule reach compared to pretty much anyone with the classic ‘spiritual attire’ - whether the mock-traditional or the new age variety.
 

Either they don’t care about their public persona and simply do as they please - or maybe they’re actively using it as a way of filtering out ones that are averse/attracted to outward appearance.

 

[Shadow_self]

24 minutes ago, freeform said:

Either they don’t care about their public persona and simply do as they please - or maybe they’re actively using it as a way of filtering out ones that are averse/attracted to outward appearance.

 

 

@freeform For **** sake shhh!!!!

 

ontday elltay emthay aboutyay ethay anplay

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Shadow_self

[anshino23]

Here’s a video or master Nan Huai Chin literally chain-smoking cigarettes while discussing health principles of the Yellow Emperor Classic. Master Nan was by many recognised as a master of the highest degree — yet here he is chain smoking cigarettes in his 90s! Imagine what his students must think! 

 

I honestly find it hilarious and quite sad that  people tend to fixate on the outermost dense materialistic aspects of a person rather than hearing what they have to say. 

Like freeform describes, I’ve also seen the opposite. I’ve seen the hippie-teachers with their plastic persona, appearance and empty lofty talk and promises. 
 

Here are some teachers that say things like they see them — unfiltered just describing their own experiences with countless students — and just being their authentic selves. Not hiding behind a false spiritual veneer but just living their art and practicing wholeheartedly. 
 

It seems nowadays we’re so fixated on appearances and “glamour” that we lose our grip on the essential. Our practice, and perhaps more importantly — our transformation.
 

Let’s work on kindness and suspending disbelief — because, who knows? We might just learn something new today. That would be lovely wouldn’t it?
 

Or has our practice made our minds and egos so fragile based on  beliefs that we cannot even open ourselves to other ideas, experiences and discuss them and learn from one another?  
 

May we all strive well, and may the Dharma bring us to the other shore. 🙏

 

——————
 

“No, you didn't, and I've gone to great lengths on your recommendation to change my bad habits."

"Oh, That was to develop your will, you see, and to give your instincts a refresher course. And we can say that habit itself--any unconscious, compulsive ritual--is negative. But specific activities-smoking, drinking, taking drugs, eating sweets, or asking silly questions are bad and good; every action has its price, and its pleasures.
 

Recognizing both sides, you become realistic and responsible for your actions. And only then can you make the warrior's free choice--to do or not to do.

There is a saying when you sit, sit. When you stand, stand. Whatever you do don’t wobble. Once you make your choice do it with all your spirit. Don’t be like the evangelist that thought about praying while making love to his wife and making love to his wife while praying.” ~ A Peaceful Warrior 

Edited January 1, 2023 by anshino23

[Shadow_self]

41 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

 All it was missing was the mountain of cocaine...

 

Oh its there

 

You just haven't seen the directors "cut"

 

 

[liminal_luke]

17 minutes ago, freeform said:

If they think that smoking cigars and drinking whiskey is the right way to craft a public persona for the spiritual marketplace - then they’re waaaay off the mark! 😅

 

I mean look how many people they’ve turned off already!

 

 

The cigar and whiskey scene is carefully crafted genius.  The orrnately carved armchair, kitchy flamino, demask sofa -- the whole tableau suggests a lifestyle of self-conscious indulgence.  It's a scene that's provoking reactions and a dare say it was meant to.  I think Damo and Adam are attempting to make a point: a person can be ironic, hip, cool, masculine, wealthy and semi- enlightened.  The fact that their message repels some only adds to their street cred with others.  In any case, they appear to be capable meditators, teachers, and lounge lizards.  Good on them.

[Barnaby]

16 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

I honestly find it hilarious and quite sad that  people tend to fixate on the outermost dense materialistic aspects of a person rather than hearing what they have to say. 

 

I totally hear you.

 

But as I said above, in this case I think Damo Mitchell is reaping the karmic consequences of his self-styled "irreverent" take on the biz.

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The cigar and whiskey scene is carefully crafted genius.  The orrnately carved armchair, kitchy flamino, demask sofa -- the whole tableau suggests a lifestyle of self-conscious indulgence.  It's a scene that's provoking reactions and a dare say it was meant to.  I think Damo and Adam are attempting to make a point: a person can be ironic, hip, cool, masculine, wealthy and semi- enlightened.  The fact that their message repels some only adds to their street cred with others.  In any case, they appear to be capable meditators, teachers, and lounge lizards.  Good on them.

i never managed the wealthy part of that but by god am I hip.

[Barnaby]

9 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The cigar and whiskey scene is carefully crafted genius.  The orrnately carved armchair, kitchy flamino, demask sofa -- the whole tableau suggests a lifestyle of self-conscious indulgence.  It's a scene that's provoking reactions and a dare say it was meant to.  I think Damo and Adam are attempting to make a point: a person can be ironic, hip, cool, masculine, wealthy and semi- enlightened.  The fact that their message repels some only adds to their street cred with others.  In any case, they appear to be capable meditators, teachers, and lounge lizards.  Good on them.

 

Just quoting this because it is such a good post 

[Shadow_self]

15 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The cigar and whiskey scene is carefully crafted genius.  The orrnately carved armchair, kitchy flamino, demask sofa -- the whole tableau suggests a lifestyle of self-conscious indulgence.  It's a scene that's provoking reactions and a dare say it was meant to.  I think Damo and Adam are attempting to make a point: a person can be ironic, hip, cool, masculine, wealthy and semi- enlightened.  The fact that their message repels some only adds to their street cred with others.  In any case, they appear to be capable meditators, teachers, and lounge lizards.  Good on them.

You perceptual skill is good @liminal_luke, well spotted

 

Amazing that you get it, but the "Ancient master" seems to struggle with it

 

Guess that third eye just  isnt working as it should be. Eh all good, there is of course, a solution.

 

Naturally, as every Tom, Dick and Harry seems to have opened their third eye, capitalism responds accordingly

 

 

Never fear friend, that extra peeper will be good as new in no time  

[dino]

15 hours ago, freeform said:

Adam’s Buddhist teacher:

thanks for this

Edited January 2, 2023 by dino

[Taoist Texts]

11 hours ago, anshino23 said:

Let’s work on kindness and suspending disbelief

Suspension of disbelief, sometimes called willing suspension of disbelief, is the avoidance of critical thinking or logic in examining something unreal or impossible in reality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Suspension of disbelief, sometimes called willing suspension of disbelief, is the avoidance of critical thinking or logic in examining something unreal or impossible in reality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

 

Regarding matters like this, suspension of disbelief would actually be a more critical approach.

 

See demonstration A

 

1. This is nonsense. I can disregard it

2. I best hold off judgement until I can conduct a proper investigation in person

 

Its far more logical, and better practice  to want to gather better data here. 

 

Here is why. You are probably familiar with Simons model, given your claim to have studied economics 

 

 

Heuristics is not wise in this case, especially given societies current engineered predisposition to immediately disregard anything it does not understand or cannot explain

 

Also you manipulated the quote to try and further your own position. Not exactly honest

 

Quote

Suspension of disbelief, sometimes called willing suspension of disbelief, is the avoidance of critical thinking or logic in examining something unreal or impossible in reality, such as a work of speculative fiction, in order to believe it for the sake of enjoyment.^[

 

The situation here is anything but impossible in reality. 

 

And you are free to go and investigate either of those in real life, using your real senses and address your concerns