Why is the medicine buddha blue? Did he come from hinduism?

[Takingcharge]

Hello,

 

Just some random toughts,  i dont know much about buddhism. i was under the impression buddhism didnt involve evoking deities and such. I tought  it was focussed purely on liberation

 

But i saw that that tibethan buddhism is filled with it from glimpsing.

 

Saw that the medicine buddha is depicted as blue, so i wondered are these really buddhas? Or a deity  they picked up from hinduism? As i tought buddhism somewhat came from that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Takingcharge

[Taoist Texts]

yes he did come from Hinduism

https://isha.sadhguru.org/mahashivratri/shiva/shiva-blue-throat/

[Takingcharge]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes he did come from Hinduism

https://isha.sadhguru.org/mahashivratri/shiva/shiva-blue-throat/

 

ok, so are you saying shiva and the medicine buddha are the same deitys?  Medicine buddha was not mentioned in the article

[Lairg]

4 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

medicine buddha is depicted as blue

 

In ancient times many gods were depicted with blue skin e.g. Krishna (confirmed by a local eye witness I know - she said turquoise skin).

 

And:  "One of the first beings I saw was a girl with light blue skin. She had no hair, but she was very beautiful. She was wearing a skin-tight grey suit and I saw her shipmates standing behind her in the same uniform."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/woman-who-daily-alien-encounters-26073545

 

Sometimes green as with Al-Khidr and Osiris and Ptah

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Lairg

[searcher7977]

13 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes he did come from Hinduism

https://isha.sadhguru.org/mahashivratri/shiva/shiva-blue-throat/

 

That article did not mention the Medicine Buddha at all...

[C T]

The claims are that Bhaisajyaguru scripts were first discovered around the regions of the Swat Valley, in Ghandara, at the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Maybe around the 6th century or thereabouts. Quite certain its origin isn't Hindu because the concept of compassion isn't central to that tradition. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by C T

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, searcher7977 said:

 

That article did not mention the Medicine Buddha at all...

thats true. the article i quoted  was to show the origin of the blue coloring. we have to be able to connect the dots on our own. medicine=poison.  Here is another dot for you;) 

Quote

 

One day, Shen Nong was poisoned by 72 different poisonous plants. His internal organs turned black 

https://www.umiteasets.com/blogs/umi-tea-sets-blog/shen-nong-divine-farmer-and-tea

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

ok, so are you saying shiva and the medicine buddha are the same deitys?

yes they are partially the same. if a god would move to a new religion staying completely the same it would not be a new religion.

 

 

Quote

the concept of compassion isn't central to that tradition. 

for some reason it is believed that buddhism is centered on compassion. It is not. It is centered on '4 truths'.

 

as for compassion, it is pretty central to hinduism

Quote

 

Hinduism prescribes the eternal duties, such as honesty, refraining from injuring living beings (Ahiṃsā), patience, forbearance, self-restraint, virtue, and compassion, 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Taoist Texts

[searcher7977]

41 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

thats true. the article i quoted  was to show the origin of the blue coloring. we have to be able to connect the dots on our own. medicine=poison.  Here is another dot for you;) 

 

 

yes they are partially the same. if a god would move to a new religion staying completely the same it would not be a new religion.

 

 

for some reason it is believed that buddhism is centered on compassion. It is not. It is centered on '4 truths'.

 

as for compassion, it is pretty central to hinduism

 

 

 

 

Ah silly me I was so fixated on the Shiva =/= Medicine Buddha part, I forgot the original question lol...

[Taoist Texts]

34 minutes ago, searcher7977 said:

Shiva =/= Medicine Buddha

well somebody connected the dots. probably not solidly enough for everybody to see. but on the other hand these things are not for everybody so all good.

Ishana (Shiva) as one of the Ten Gods in the retinue of the Medicine Buddha

 

https://www.himalayanart.org/items/48347

[Vajra Fist]

Honestly, I'm sure there are symbolic reasons why he is depicted as having blue skin. Perhaps there was some historical cross-pollination between traditions.

 

Knowing that though, wouldn't be an aide to practice. For instance, there are many, many academics who study the ethnographic origins of South Asian religious traditions, who would be able to answer your question more effectively than a handful of people here scouring Google for the answer.

 

But funnily enough, many people studying buddhism at an academic level might not identify as buddhists, or even might be offended if you suggested they were. In other words, buddhism is not an academic practice.

 

In terms of practice, they are different deities, employed in different ways by different traditions. Praying to one does not in any way equate to having a foot in another tradition, and vice versa.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Vajra Fist

[searcher7977]

8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

well somebody connected the dots. probably not solidly enough for everybody to see. but on the other hand these things are not for everybody so all good.

Ishana (Shiva) as one of the Ten Gods in the retinue of the Medicine Buddha

 

https://www.himalayanart.org/items/48347

 

You are unnecessarily abrasive, and also wrong. 

 

Every blue figure from hinduism is not represented by the medicine buddha or his retinue. Shiva is in his retinue, that does not mean he is medicine buddha. Nor is he painted as blue half the time. By that logic Krishna or blue ganesh are also medicine buddha. They are distinct entities so much so they retain sadhanas even in buddhism, such as Ganesh Puja. I watched an interview where a Tibetan Llama encouraged Shaivite practice and puja as a distinct practice, not "Medicine buddha bc they come from the same source." 

 

The symbolism is completely different, Shiva the destroyer. Rudra the Howler. In no way has Shiva been (mainly) described as a healer that heals ailments.There are no nagas, there is no trident, there is no creationism, nothing other than the color blue. Which, has been a symbol for many, many deities and poison. Not only that, there is no historical or scholarly evidence. 

 

Why are you being hostile? I tried to play nice. You proceeded to insult me by implication on a subject you are obviously ignorant in. I expected better from you, especially since you claim to be a teacher. 

 

Either way, you are wrong. To take your words, Medicine Buddha is not Shiva, but this is difficult to understand, "probably not solidly enough for everybody to see. but on the other hand these things are not for everybody so all good."

Edited January 8, 2023 by searcher7977

[C T]

The earliest Ghandara scrolls mentioning the Medicine Buddha were part of a larger body of Mahayana texts found. The bodhisattva ideal is central to Mahayana, and compassion is the hub of that ideal. 

 

Alluding to Hinduism, or more specifically, that the Sanatana Dharma contains teachings that cover numerous aspects of virtuous conduct, including the cultivation of compassion, is just not the same. Christianity and other religions also feature teachings on compassion, but the emphasis in each varies. 

[Taoist Texts]

28 minutes ago, searcher7977 said:

You are unnecessarily abrasive, and also wrong. 

 

Why are you being hostile? I tried to play nice. You proceeded to insult me

Either way, you are wrong.

sorry to hear that. i did not mean to. sorry again.

[Mark Foote]

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

 for some reason it is believed that buddhism is centered on compassion. It is not. It is centered on '4 truths'.

 

Something from my last post on my site (zenmudra.com/zazen-notes):

 

The presence of mind can utilize the location of attention to maintain the balance of the body and coordinate activity in the movement of breath, without a particularly conscious effort to do so. There can also come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.

When the location of attention can shift anywhere in the body as a function of the movement of breath, and the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation follows solely from the location of attention, there is a feeling of freedom.

 

Something from what I'm writing for my next post:

 

Kobun Chino Otogawa said:
 

…Sitting shikantaza is the place itself, and things. …When you sit, the cushion sits with you. If you wear glasses, the glasses sit with you. Clothing sits with you. House sits with you. People who are moving around outside all sit with you. They don’t take the sitting posture!

(“Aspects of Sitting Meditation”, “Shikantaza”; Kobun Chino Otogawa, jikoji.org)

 

Contact in the senses, even contact with something beyond the conscious range of the senses (“people who are moving around outside”), can enter into the placement of attention, and in so doing become a part of the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation.

 

Gautama the Buddha described the extension of particular mental states throughout the world:

 

[One] dwells, having suffused the first quarter [of the world] with friendliness, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth; just so above, below, across; [one] dwells having suffused the whole world everywhere, in every way, with a mind of friendliness that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence. [One] dwells having suffused the first quarter with a mind of compassion… with a mind of sympathetic joy… with a mind of equanimity that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence.

 

(MN I 38, Pali Text Society volume I pg 48, emphasis added)
 

 Gautama declared that “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of compassion (as above) corresponded with the first of the further states of concentration; “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of sympathetic joy, with the second; and “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of equanimity, with the third.

Particularly when something beyond the conscious range of the senses enters into the placement of attention and generates activity, there is a sense that the activity generated solely through the placement of attention is independent of the apparent circumstance.  If such activity arises through the extension of friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, or equanimity, then the experience can be accompanied by a feeling of “absolute independence” from immediate circumstances, especially if the spirit in such extension is not otherwise evident in the surroundings...
 

I would say compassion is indeed at the heart of the teaching, as are the four truths.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Mark Foote

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

I would say compassion is indeed at the heart of the teaching, as are the four truth

 

For me the heart of the teachings is two fold - wisdom and compassion.

 

The Medicine Buddha, Menlha,  is indeed a Buddha. While he may well be influenced by Hindu deities, it’s also possible that he came from Bön as there is a Medicine  Buddha in Bön. In Buddhism Menlha is an avatar of Buddha Shakyamuni. In Bön he is an avatar of Buddha Tonpa Shenrab, the founder of Bön. Deities in Bön are often, but not always Buddhas. Some are not considered fully enlightened. Menlha is a fully enlightened Buddha.

 

I’ve heard different explanations for the blue color. The most widely discussed is the blue color is related to lapis lazuli, very precious in ancient times and said to have healing properties. Blue color is also associated with the water element which has healing, soothing, balancing qualities. Finally, blue is the color of the clear sky which is often used as a symbol of emptiness and spaciousness, the nature of our true being and the ultimate healer. For this reason Menlha is sometimes referred to as a Buddha of wisdom.

[iinatti]

I read that the blue might be from aquamarine, ie blue beryl (which is sometimes translated as lapis lazuli):

 

"For his second great aspiration, he proclaimed, ‘In the future, when I have attained awakening as a perfect buddha who has manifested unsurpassed and perfect awakening, may my body be like a precious blue beryl gem‍—pure inside and out and radiating a stainless light.  May I manifest a broad and tall body that stands firm, is ablaze with glory and splendor, and is adorned with a halo of light so bright that it outshines the sun and moon. May my light allow any beings who are born in the dark spaces between worlds, and those here in the human world who travel to various places during the dark of night, to proceed joyfully, and may they perform virtuous deeds.’"  Pretty cool.  

 

I also read its one of the seven precious materials. It seems common for the buddhas' bodies to be described as brightly colored, gold, green, etc. depending on their individual characteristics.  Blue beryl's purity and purfication effects seems to be one of its defining characteristics, which may be why the medicine buddha's body is described as being like a precious blue beryl gem:

 

"The ones who possess this vast [lotus] sūtra
Will have bodies that are completely purified,
As pure as if they were made of beryl
And will always bring joy to the beings who see them."

 

It seems like the blue color takes its significance from the gemstone, not necessarily the characteristics of the similarly blue hindu dieties.  Understanding the historical significance of aquamarine would therefore better answer the question of any relationship to the hindu dieties, rather than comparing the skin color, although hindu probably influenced the very idea that a diety or buddha might have brightly colored skin to begin with.  I personally like the idea. 

 

[awaken]

Real people are divided into frequencies according to the spectrum.
The real person in the low spectrum is red, and so on for the rest.

Don't ask me why I know, because you will know when you practice to this place.

 

真人依照光譜有頻率之分。
低光譜的真人是紅色的，其餘類推。

不要問我為什麼知道，因為當你練到這個地方你就會知道。

[Maddie]

This mantra has really been doing a lot for me lately.

[EFreethought]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

This mantra has really been doing a lot for me lately.

 

What are some of these effects?

 

[Maddie]

5 hours ago, EFreethought said:

 

What are some of these effects?

 

 

I would say just an increased sense of wellness both physically and mentally.

[Master Logray]

Do all the Buddhas in Buddhism are originated from Hindu scriptures?

 

[Maddie]

6 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Do all the Buddhas in Buddhism are originated from Hindu scriptures?

 

 

Gotoma Buddha (the historical Buddha) has nothing to do with Hindu scriptures. As far as the rest of them go I don' think they came from Hindu scriptures. They may have been influenced or inspired by them though, but I'm not sure. 

[Cobie]

6 hours ago, Maddie said:

Gotoma …

 

Spoiler

go-to-ma 

 for me that’s no longer an option

The name Gautam (also transliterated as Gautama or Gauthama and a vrddhi patronymic of Gotama) is one of the ancient Indian names and is derived from the Sanskrit roots "gŐ(गः)" and "tama (तम)". "Tama" means "darkness" and "gŐ" means inter alia "bright light". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Buddha 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

  Hide contents

go-to-ma 

 for me that’s no longer an option

The name Gautam (also transliterated as Gautama or Gauthama and a vrddhi patronymic of Gotama) is one of the ancient Indian names and is derived from the Sanskrit roots "gŐ(गः)" and "tama (तम)". "Tama" means "darkness" and "gŐ" means inter alia "bright light". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Buddha 

 

Yeah C minus for me huh LOL

[Cobie]

Interesting that ‘Gotama’ means ‘bright light-darkness’. 

 

~~~
Sanskrit सिद्धार्थ (siddhārtha, “one who has accomplished an aim or object, successful, prosperous”), from सिद्ध (siddha, “achievement”) + अर्थ (artha, “meaning, purpose”).

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Cobie