help Which of these systems is good to start?

[awaken]

4 hours ago, Kojiro said:

what is the name of this qi gong for those interested? is there any way to watch how it is and maybe learn it?

Spontaneous Gong

 

自發功

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=自發功&crid=23L0GT9IAJCN4&sprefix=自發ㄍㄨㄥ%2Caps%2C295&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

https://www.books.com.tw/products/0010887812?sloc=main

 

There is a university professor in Taiwan who has written a series of books on spontaneous exercises

We have written a lot of diaries and shared them on the website, and there are also places for group practice

[Kojiro]

58 minutes ago, awaken said:

Spontaneous Gong

 

自發功

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=自發功&crid=23L0GT9IAJCN4&sprefix=自發ㄍㄨㄥ%2Caps%2C295&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

https://www.books.com.tw/products/0010887812?sloc=main

 

There is a university professor in Taiwan who has written a series of books on spontaneous exercises

We have written a lot of diaries and shared them on the website, and there are also places for group practice

Are there some videos about the practice ?

[Vajra Fist]

Honestly if getting fit, and feeling loose and comfortable in your own skin is your goal, then hatha yoga is probably your best bet.

 

If you're looking for a spiritual path, then qigong is a probably a bit of a minefield. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

You can try this Flying Phoenix sitting meditation for free to get a feel for it 

 

 

 

This one is very good. You can do it standing up, seated and also lying down. Remember to keep your tongue touching the roof of your mouth throughout the entire practice, breathe in and out through your nose only, and end with three deep breaths then exhale through your mouth with the final breath.

 

Do it for a least 5 minutes, the longer the better. 

[awaken]

2 hours ago, Kojiro said:

Are there some videos about the practice ?

 

There are some videos, but I don't recommend you to watch them
Because the last thing that spontaneous work needs is imitation and learning.

[MIchael80]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

 

There are some videos, but I don't recommend you to watch them
Because the last thing that spontaneous work needs is imitation and learning.

How to start? 

[awaken]

6 hours ago, MIchael80 said:

How to start? 

 

 

Find a large lawn outside, then stand relaxed, and leave the rest to the body.

 

 

[Kojiro]

8 hours ago, awaken said:

 

 

Find a large lawn outside, then stand relaxed, and leave the rest to the body.

 

 

is it like zhan zhuang?

[awaken]

2 hours ago, Kojiro said:

is it like zhan zhuang?

 

not like.

Because Zhan Zhuang has a premise, standing still.

But spontaneous gong is to make the body free, and there is no presupposition of standing still.

 

不像。

因為站樁有一個前提假設，站在原地不動。

但是自發功是讓身體自由，而沒有站在原地不動的前提假設。

 

Instead, you need to be constantly aware of any presuppositions in your mind that control your body.

 

相反的，你要時時刻刻覺察你的內心是否有產生任何前提假設來控制你的身體。

Edited January 15, 2023 by awaken

[Sahaja]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:17 AM, MIchael80 said:

How to start? 

Suggest you choose a teacher and follow their program. If spontaneous movement arises then you can ask someone about how to respond to it and integrate the experience into your training. My understanding is that there is a wide range of possible manifestations of zi fa gong so having some feedback from an experienced person can help keep things in perspective.  You may want to check for YouTube channels on the programs you initially mentioned and see what free stuff is there. May help in your choice..

[awaken]

Spontaneity is not only movement, I have said this many times.
Spontaneous self-discovery occurs, but you go back to practice active methods, which is creating obstacles for yourself and causing trouble for yourself.

 

自發不是只有動，這一點我說過很多次了。
出現自發現象，卻回頭去練有為法，那是給自己製造障礙，自己給自己找麻煩。

 

Spontaneity is not only movement, I have said this many times.
Spontaneous self-discovery occurs, but you go back to practice active methods, which is creating obstacles for yourself and causing trouble for yourself.

All evolutions are spontaneous, including the Vajra, the moon and the sun, which are discussed in another topic, are all spontaneous.

It is a very superficial cognition to regard spontaneity as an action, and it is a big mistake.

 

所有一切的演化都是自發的，包含另外一個主題在討論的金剛，月輪，日輪，都是自發的。

把自發看成是動作，那是非常粗淺的認知，錯很大。

 

If you haven't learned to let everything be spontaneous, I guarantee you won't get to the end.

 

如果你沒有學會讓所有一切都是自發的，我保證你練不到最後面。

 

If there is no spontaneous phenomenon, it is impossible to enter the process of evolution.

 

如果沒有產生自發現象，是不可能進入進化的程序的。

 

If you listen to the lies of those qigong masters and regard the phenomenon of self-discovery as nothing but movements, then you will stay in the world of qi sense for the rest of your life, circling in circles all day long, and you will not be able to achieve enlightenment for a lifetime.

 

你如果聽信那些氣功大師的謊言，把自發現象當成只有動作，那你一輩子就會停留在氣感的世界，整天繞圈圈，繞一輩子也無法成道。

 

There are already too many people who have been going around in circles all day long. When they see the classics, they can only guess. Because there is no evolution, they can't understand what the classics are talking about.

 

這裡已經有太多人整天繞圈圈了，看到了經典卻只能用猜的，因為沒有演化，所以看不懂經典在說什麼。

 

And these people encourage you to learn how to go around in circles, just like him.
You should think about it, is there a need to waste your life like this?

 

而這些人卻鼓勵你跟他一樣，學習繞圈圈的方式。
你應該思考一下，是否有需要這樣浪費生命？

Edited January 16, 2023 by awaken

[Cobie]

.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Cobie

[Maddie]

If I'm going to be totally honest, I got into better shape just doing Pilates than Qigong.

[freeform]

On 14/01/2023 at 6:17 PM, MIchael80 said:

How to start? 

Zi fa gong can be started off in many different ways - each tradition will have its own way.

 

Most often, in my experience, it’s started off by a teacher emitting qi… but it can be started off by yourself too.

 

Zi fa gong should, imo, be done with supervision - or at least with someone you can talk to who’s gone through the process themselves - and have led others through it too.

 

It’s very powerful and useful - but as with anything powerful, there’s stuff that can go wrong.

 

So a good teacher that uses this approach is definitely recommended…

 

There are many bad teachers that subvert this process though (and it’s very easy to subvert as your energy body opens up and becomes pretty ‘suggestible’)…

 

[Master Logray]

I come across this organisation -

 

https://wu-dang-pai.de

 

This one has Kung Fu, Qigong, meditation, philosophy, ceremonies, feng shui, healing .....  even free course.  It seems quite complete, something for everyone.  And they are tri-lingual in German, English and Chinese.   Take a look.

 

[awaken]

Any exercise is fine, as long as it suits you the best, the question is how do you know what is the most suitable for you?

So there is something special about spontaneous power, it will develop the most suitable power state by itself, it may be rotation, it may be mudra, it may be samadhi, it may be the first stage of YangBirth, it may be black liver light, every moment developed freely.

 

任何功法都可以，只要適合自己的最好，問題是你怎麼知道什麼是最適合自己的呢？

所以自發功有這個特別之處，會自己發展最適合自己的功態，可能是旋轉，可能是手印，可能是三摩地，可能是陽生第一階段，可能是烏肝光，每一個當下都是自由發展出來的。

 

[freeform]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

Any exercise is fine, as long as it suits you the best, the question is how do you know what is the most suitable for you?

So there is something special about spontaneous power, it will develop the most suitable power state by itself, it may be rotation, it may be mudra, it may be samadhi, it may be the first stage of YangBirth, it may be black liver light, every moment developed freely.

 

任何功法都可以，只要適合自己的最好，問題是你怎麼知道什麼是最適合自己的呢？

所以自發功有這個特別之處，會自己發展最適合自己的功態，可能是旋轉，可能是手印，可能是三摩地，可能是陽生第一階段，可能是烏肝光，每一個當下都是自由發展出來的。

 

Just to reaffirm that zifagong can be rather suggestible…

 

Very prone to delusional thinking, imagination and so on… if someone tells you it’s angels working on you, you may well start to experience angels working on you… if someone tells you that it leads to seeing the light of your spirit - you may well start experiencing that.

 

Ive come across many schools that use zifagong heavily and many students think they’ve become enlightened or immortal… etc.

 

Its a fantastic method, but worth knowing the pitfalls and limitations of it.

 

PS - this isn’t directed at Awaken, because I’m pretty sure she can’t read my messages (she blocked me ) - it’s directed at other people interested in spontaneous qigong or zifagong.

[awaken]

Practicing spontaneous exercises is the least susceptible to suggestion, because during the process of practicing, you must always be aware of whether there is self-suggestion. I said this at the beginning, and some people may not understand my English.

All conditioned methods are self-suggestions, such as "stand up"（ZianChuan?）, you have to tell yourself not to move, even if you want to move, you have to tell yourself not to move. For example, Xiao Zhoutian has to suggest to himself that he should focus on the lower abdomen, even if the attention always wants to move to other places.

But spontaneous gong is just the opposite. Self-suggestion is not allowed at all. On the contrary, one must always be aware of whether there is self-suggestion. If there is self-suggestion, it is basically not spontaneous gong, but induced qigong.

Today some people practice spontaneous gong wrongly. Laymen who don’t understand spontaneous gong think it’s caused by spontaneity. This is a layman’s way of speaking. The real spontaneity cannot be self-suggested at all.

 

練自發功是最不容易受到暗示的，因為練的過程中，必須要一直覺知有沒有自我暗示，這一點我在一開始就說過了，可能有人看不懂我的英文。

所有的有為法都是自我暗示的，例如「站樁」，就要自我暗示不要動，即使想要動，也要自我暗示不要動。例如小周天，就要自我暗示要把注意力鎖定在下腹部，即使注意力一直想要移動到其他地方。

但是自發功正好相反，完全不可以自我暗示，相反的，必須時時刻刻覺察，是否有自我暗示產生，如果有自我暗示產生，基本上就不是自發功，而是誘導發生的氣功了。

今天有些人練錯了自發功，不懂自發功的外行人就以為那是自發功造成的，這是外行人說外行話，真正的自發功是完全不可以自我暗示的。

 

It is also because spontaneous gong is the least likely to be suggested, so spontaneous gong has the function of evolution and can produce the most suitable gong state for the moment.

Unlike conditioned practice, which is self-suggesting all the time and leading to a specific direction, it cannot produce the function of evolution, nor can it produce the most suitable state of work for the moment.

 

也因為自發功是最不容易受到暗示的，因此自發功才有演化的功能，才能產生最適合當下的功態。

不像有為法，時時刻刻都在自我暗示，導向一個特定的方向，因此無法產生演化的功能，也無法產生最適合當下的功態。

 

That's why I said that one must have a pure soil for cultivation. For example, the conditioned method is a very strong self-suggestion. Therefore, only a polluted soil can't cultivate the real golden elixir.

But those who practice spontaneous qigong can produce pure soil. Because people who practice spontaneous gong must always be aware of whether there is any self-suggestion. If there is any, it will produce polluted soil just like the conditioned method.

 

所以我才說要修煉必須要有清淨的土，像有為法就是非常濃重的自我暗示，因此只有污染的土，無法練出真正的金丹。

但是練自發功的人，卻可以產生清淨的土。因為練自發功的人必須時時刻刻自我覺察有沒有自我暗示，如果有的話，就跟有為法一樣，會產生污染的土了。

 

Why do I block certain people, because these people have a big problem, and selectively ignore the facts.

Because I have repeatedly said that spontaneous gong must be constantly aware, and these people have lied, saying that spontaneous gong has been suggesting itself, so I must clarify these lies.
The rest is up to the wisdom of the readers.

 

我為什麼會封鎖某些人，因為這些人有很大的問題，而且選擇性的忽略了事實。

因為我已經不斷的重複說過，自發功必須不斷的覺察，而這些人卻說了謊話，說自發功一直在自我暗示，因此我必須為這些謊話澄清。
剩下的，就看各位讀者的智慧了。

 

If there is no continuous awareness of spontaneous gong, then it is the same as the active method, because the active method has no continuous awareness, but strong self-suggestion, so the problem is not the spontaneous gong, but the strong The self-suggestion of self-suggestion, and the active method is almost all skills developed based on strong self-suggestion, these skills will basically hinder evolution.

Similarly, if there is no continuous awareness of spontaneous gong, but strong self-suggestion, then it is not spontaneous gong, but the same as active practice.

 

自發功如果沒有持續性的覺察，那就跟有為法是相同的，因為有為法就是沒有持續性的覺察，而是強烈的自我暗示，所以問題不是出在自發功，而是出在強烈的自我暗示，而有為法幾乎都是基於強烈的自我暗示所發展出來的技巧，這些技巧基本上是會阻擋演化的。

同樣的，自發功如果沒有持續性的覺察，而是強烈的自我暗示，那就不是自發功了，而是跟有為法相同了。

 

If you ask me if any of my students have self-suggestion, I must admit that there are, and I will tell him that he is self-suggestion. Usually such a student will choose to leave because the teacher does not agree with his behavior.

As for how I deal with autosuggestion, I have practiced Vipassana for many years and have been practicing awareness.

But I still haven't made a breakthrough. This is the so-called failure to cultivate MinGong.

To achieve a breakthrough in Taoism, one must cultivate both MinGong and XinGong.

After I added spontaneous Gong, I had a breakthrough in my cultivation.

 

如果你問我，我的學生裡面有沒有人產生自我暗示，我必須承認有的，而且我會告訴他，他在自我暗示，通常這樣的學生，會選擇離開，因為老師不認同他的行為。

至於我是如何處理自我暗示的，我練了內觀很多年，一直都在練習覺察能力。

但是我還是沒有突破，這就是所謂的沒有修命。

修道要有突破，必須性命雙修。

我加上了自發功之後，我的修行才有了突破。

 

 

Some people go around in small circles of self-suggestion every day, but they are mocking others for not practicing self-suggestion. This is a very ridiculous thing, but it is staged here alive.

I dare not ask such people to wake up, I only hope that more people will not be victimized.

 

有些人每天都在自我暗示繞小圈圈，卻在諷刺別人沒有自我暗示的練法。這是非常荒謬的事情，但是卻在這裡活生生的上演。

我不敢要求這樣的人能夠醒過來，我只希望不要有更多人受害。

 

If you practice spontaneous exercises today and you imply that you need to move your feet, then you are practicing wrongly.

If you're doing spontaneous exercises and you find yourself cueing your feet to stand still, then you're doing it right.

Can you guys spot the difference?

An outsider may not be able to see the difference. To an outsider, all he sees is a person moving his feet, but he cannot see the difference in the hearts of the two people who are moving their feet.

 

今天如果你練了自發功，你暗示你自己要移動雙腳，那你就是練錯了。

如果你練自發功，你發現自己正在暗示自己雙腳站定不動，那你就是練對了。

各位可以發現其中的差異嗎？

外人可能看不出來其中的差異，對外人來說，他看到的都是一個人在移動雙腳，但是他看不出來這兩個移動雙腳的人的內心有何不同。

 

 

In the same way, if you practice today, you are implying that you are going to circumambulate yourself.
Another one, if you practice the exercises, you find yourself implying that you have to go around the small circle.

How would the two be different?

Which one is the clean soil?

I believe that if you are wise, you can distinguish very clearly without being deceived.

 

 

同樣的，今天如果你練功，你正在暗示你自己要繞小周天。
另外一個，如果你練功，你發現你自己正在暗示你自己要繞小周天。

這兩者會有什麼不同？

哪一個才是清淨的土？

相信有智慧的你可以區分得非常清楚，而不會受騙上當。

 

 

Why can spontaneous work produce the ability of evolution, because spontaneous work must be based on the foundation of deep awareness in order to produce truly spontaneous work.

Only the spontaneous gong based on deep awareness is the real spontaneous generation.

I saw the English word for "spontaneous gong", and I guessed that this might be another cultural barrier.

Because the meaning of "spontaneous work" in Chinese is a practice that occurs automatically.

 

自發功為什麼能夠產生演化的能力，因為自發功必須是基於深度覺察的基礎才能產生真正自發的功法。

只有深度覺察為基礎的自發功，才是真正的自發產生。

我看到「自發功」的英文字，我猜想這可能又是另外一個文化障礙。

因為中文的「自發功」的意義就是自動發生的功法。

 

 

All deep work states happen automatically, which is spontaneous work.

Whether it is black liver light, mandala, samadhi, full moon, real person, all are automatically generated.

These phenomena cannot be produced under the illusion of self-deception.

Because when a person is constantly aware of everything about himself, the illusion is almost invisible.

Only those who are constantly pursuing a specific power state will fall into the illusion.

For example, people who are chasing Xiao Zhoutian are very likely to fall into illusions, thinking that their souls are flying out of their bodies.

I met many people who were chasing Xiao Zhoutian, almost without exception, almost everyone fell into a very deep illusion, and even thought they were enlightened or samadhi.

 

所有的深度功態都是自動發生的，這就是自發功。

不管是烏肝光，曼陀羅，三摩地，圓月，真人，全部都是自動產生的。

這些現象不可能是建築在自我欺騙的幻境底下產生的。

因為當一個人不斷的覺察自己的一切，幻境幾乎是無所遁形的。

只有不斷的追求特定功態的人，才會陷入幻境。

例如追逐小周天的人，就非常容易陷入幻境，以為自己靈魂出體在飛翔了。

我遇到許多追逐小周天的人，幾乎沒有一個例外，幾乎每個人都陷入非常深的幻境，甚至還以為自己開悟，或者三摩地了。

Edited January 18, 2023 by awaken

[freeform]

28 minutes ago, awaken said:

you must always be aware of whether there is self-suggestion

yes - you’re talking about non-contrivance. 
 

In general my concern is more to do with the teacher or the environment… for example, zifagong is practiced in some churches… it appears a little different - but it’s still the same thing… except in church people are told that it’s the Holy Spirit working through them.

 

Theres another group (they even post here in the forum sometimes) who use zifagong - but they tell their students that they’ve attached an immortal master to the student - and it’s the immortal master that’s directing their body and mind.

 

Some use zifagong and call it kundalini.

 

Some use zifagong and call it exorcising spirits.

 

Some teachers condition the spontaneous reactions by changing the quality of the qi (for example the various spontaneous five animal frolics).

 

Zifagong is very suggestible by the environment and by the teacher… just as you tell people to do their practice in an open field - just being in that environment conditions how the spontaneous movements arise.

 

non-contrivance as you teach it is the right way… but then you suggest certain experiences will happen (rabbit marrow etc)… this also subtly conditions the practice.

 

One of the teachers I learned zifagong from never even talked about it… people would ask and he’d just say ‘it’s normal’ or something like that… never said what to expect… 

[awaken]

I didn't imply that rabbit marrow would happen, and again you're selectively ignoring the facts.
On the contrary, I said that rabbit marrow is difficult to produce.

As for those wrong teaching methods, I certainly cannot agree.

So I would say that the problem is not with spontaneous gong, but with autosuggestion.

It is not the spontaneous gong that is easy to accept hints, but the human heart.

"Visualization" is hinting, and the Xiao Zhoutian exercises are also hinting, why don't you say that these methods are hinting?

This kind of selective ignorance of facts is not the behavior that a practitioner should have, right?

A real practitioner should see the deeper layers, see the direction of the mind, shouldn't he?

 

我並沒有暗示兔髓會發生，你又再一次選擇性的忽略了事實。
相反的，我說兔髓很難發生。

至於那些錯誤的教學方式，我當然不能認同。

所以我會說問題不是出在自發功，而是出在自我暗示。

容易接受暗示的不是自發功，而是人的心。

「觀想」就是在暗示，小周天功法也是都在暗示，你怎麼不說這些方法都在暗示？

這種選擇性的忽略事實，不是一個修行者該有的行為吧？

一個真正的修行者應該要看見更深層的層面，看見心的方向，不是嗎？

 

 

 

Black liver is very easy to produce, and rabbit marrow is very difficult to produce.
That's the truth of what I said.

If you ask me if there are any fake rabbit marrow among my students, I will say yes.

But I can judge, according to yin and yang.

So my teaching will require students to keep a diary, because I want to see if the whole practice procedure is in line with Yin and Yang.

I don't just watch his interior.

It is very easy to misjudge only by looking at the interior.

 

烏肝非常容易產生，兔髓非常難以產生。
這才是我說過的事實。

如果你問我，我的學生當中，有沒有假的兔髓，我會說有的。

但是我能夠判斷，根據陰陽。

所以我的教學會要求學生寫日記，因為我要看他整個練習的程序有沒有符合陰陽。

我不會只看他的內景。

只看內景是非常容易誤判的。

 

There used to be some people who practiced with me, but they gave up soon.

Inability to keep a diary.

If he hadn't kept his diary, I couldn't have helped.

I found out after reading another post that people here are very lazy. One teacher complained that his students could not even practice Tai Chi for fifteen minutes a week.

And I ask my students to practice for two hours each time, I am afraid that few people can do it.

When I work very hard, I can practice up to six times a day during holidays.

Without such perseverance, it would be impossible to evolve a mandala, even a immortal.

 

這裡曾經產生一些跟著我練的人，但是很快就放棄了。

沒有能力堅持寫日記。

如果他沒有堅持寫日記，我是幫不上忙的。

我看了另外一篇貼文才知道，原來這裡的人都非常懶惰。有一個老師抱怨他的學生甚至連一星期練太極拳十五分鐘都做不到。

而我要求我的學生，每一次的練習要練兩小時，恐怕沒幾個人做得到。

我自己非常用功的時候，假日一天最多可以練到六次。

如果沒有這樣的毅力，那是不可能演化出曼陀羅，真人的。

 

There are many people here who love to talk about immortals, but how many people have the perseverance to practice for more than two hours a day?

 

這裡有很多人很愛談論immortal，但是有幾個人能有毅力每天練兩小時以上？

 

These people like to talk about the Vajrayana, but do these people know that the content of the Vajrayana is all spontaneous?

Don't these people think that the things imagined by "visualization" are real?

A person needs to practice to produce the content of Vajrayana, from Qi Sen, Black Liver Light, Rabbit Marrow, Mandala, to immtoral. Do you know how much time it takes for such a person?

 

這些人喜歡談論金剛乘，但是這些人可知道金剛乘的內容都是自發產生的？

這些人該不會以為用「觀想」想像出來的東西是真的吧？

一個人要練到能夠產生金剛乘的內容，要從氣感，烏肝光，兔髓，曼陀羅，練到immtoral，你們知道這樣的人要花多少時間嗎？

 

 

Don't you think that putting your attention on the lower abdomen and circling the small circle every day can produce immortal?

 

你們該不會以為每天把注意力放在下腹部繞著小周天，就能產生immortal吧？

 

As for what will happen, it has long been written in the classics.

Whether it's Lu Zu, Ziyang, or Wang Chongyang, it's all written in it.

Huang Ting Jing and Can Tong Qi are also clearly written.

As for what kind of teacher you meet, that has nothing to do with me.

I advise you to read more classics to avoid misleading others.

 

至於會發生什麼，早就寫在經典裡面了。

不管是呂祖，還是紫陽，還是王重陽，都寫在裡面了。

黃庭經和參同契也寫得清清楚楚的。

至於你遇到什麼樣的老師，那就跟我無關了。

我勸你應該多看一點經典以避免誤導他人。
 

Another point is that I never use interior scenes to teach students suggestively.

You have never seen my teaching, you just wishful thinking, this is really not what an objective person should say.

It is really not a good way to discuss if you use a description of wronging others instead of asking questions.

 

還有一點，我從來不會拿內景來給學生做暗示性的教學。

你從來沒有看過我的教學，你就這樣一相情願的認定，這實在不是一個客觀的人該說的話。

你用一種冤枉他人的描述方式，而不是採用提問的方式，真的不是一種好的討論法。

Edited January 18, 2023 by awaken

[freeform]

12 minutes ago, awaken said:

I didn't imply that rabbit marrow would happen, and again you're selectively ignoring the facts.
On the contrary, I said that rabbit marrow is difficult to produce.

I only used rabbit marrow as an example… I could use black liver as an example too.
 

Because you’ve talked about the black liver results to you students, that creates a subtle conditioning in the zifagong process…

 

I’m not saying this as a criticism… I don’t think it’s possible to have zero conditioning anyway.

 

By having practiced other methods (vipassana you’ve mentioned) - you have also subtly conditioned your own zifagong… by having read the various sutras and classics - same thing.

[awaken]

You really don’t understand, and it’s really tiring to talk until you understand.

As I have said many times, it depends on the procedure of yin and yang.

If the students are deliberately chasing the black gan, I can also see it.

from his diary.

If this student loves to chase so much, then it is not my responsibility.

Because I have said countless times to be aware.

The so-called master leads the door, and the practice is up to the individual.

Do you think there are any of my students who love to chase, of course there are, all I can do is remind him.

You don't think teachers can stop students from chasing postures or interior scenes, do you?

If you really know so much about awareness, why do you only have millet?

Whether a person can truly be aware has a lot to do with his thinking habits.

These habits cannot be changed by a teacher.

All the teacher can do is remind.

 

你真的不懂，要講到你懂，真的很累。

我說過很多次，要看陰陽的程序。

如果學生是刻意追逐烏肝，我同樣也看得出來。

從他的日記。

如果這個學生這麼愛追逐，那這不是我的責任。

因為我已經說過無數次覺察了。

所謂師父領進門，修行在個人。

你說我的學生裡面有沒有這種愛追逐的，當然有，我能做的就是提醒他而已。

你該不會以為老師可以阻止學生追逐功態或內景吧？

如果你真的這麼懂覺察，為什麼你才只有黍米？

一個人能否真正做到覺察，跟他的思考習性有非常大的關係。

這些習性不是一個老師能夠改變的。

老師能做的只有提醒而已。

 

If you are really fully aware, you can't just practice millet.

It is actually very difficult for a person to achieve deep awareness.

This involves a person's understanding.

unable to force

 

如果你真的做到完全的覺察，你不可能只有練到黍米。

一個人要做到深度覺察，其實非常困難。

這牽涉到一個人的悟性。

無法強迫

 

Whether you have self-suggestion or not, it takes a long time to practice.

In addition to perseverance, understanding is also very important.

If you ask me, are there any students who have been unable to achieve deep awareness and always have self-suggestion?

Of course I said yes.

I used to say it directly, but this approach will make the student lose face, and he may give up because of anger.

After experiencing several such students, I took the approach of reminding, if he can't do it, then forget it.

It's no use talking too much.
It will only make him feel frustrated and give up early.

It's better to wait patiently for him to understand.

 

自己有沒有自我暗示，這都需要長時間的練習。

除了毅力之外，悟性也很重要。

如果你問我，有沒有學生一直做不到深度的覺察，一直有自我暗示？

我當然說有。

以前我會直接說，但是這種做法會讓這個學生沒有面子，他可能會因為生氣而放棄。

經歷過幾個這樣的學生之後，我就採取提醒的做法，如果他做不到，那就算了。

講太多也沒用。
只會讓他感到挫折而提早放棄。

不如耐心等他能夠領悟吧。

 

And what I do here is that when I meet someone who can't communicate, I just block it.

 

And what I do here is that when I meet someone who can't communicate, I just block it.

After all, we are not a teacher-student relationship, so I don't need to do so much.

 

而我在這邊的做法，就是遇到無法溝通的人，我就直接封鎖了。

畢竟大家不是師生關係，我沒必要做那麼多。

 

One of the main reasons why I responded to you today is that you seriously misled others.

You have your doubts, but you do not present your doubts as a question, but in a misleading way, and you will mislead others by doing so.

 

我今天為什麼回應你，一個主要的原因，就是你很嚴重的誤導了其他人。

你有你的疑惑，但是你沒有把你的疑惑以一種問題的方式提出，而是以一種誤導的方式提出，你這樣做會誤導別人。

 

For example, you applied the wrong methods of other teachers to me without understanding what I said.

 

例如你把別的老師的錯誤方法套用到我身上，而絲毫不去了解我說過什麼。

 

For example, two people taught Vajrayana today.

One of them taught people to use visualization to imagine seeing immortal.
Another person taught people to use the evolution method to naturally practice immortal.

It is also Vajrayana, can you say that the two teachers teach the same content?

I believe that if you are smart, you should be able to understand the difference.

Suppose there are two people teaching Wuwei today.
One of them taught people to do nothing and be a slob all day long.
Another person taught people to practice diligently in the way of Taoism and nature.

Can you say that because two people use the same nouns, you think that the content taught by the two teachers is the same?

Such a simple truth, a smart person should be able to understand it at a glance.

 

例如今天有兩個人講金剛乘。

其中一個人教人用觀想的方式來想像自己看見immortal。
另外一個人教人用演化的方式，自然練出immortal。

同樣是金剛乘，你能說兩個老師教的是一樣的內容嗎？

我相信聰明的你應該能理解其中的差異吧。

假設今天有兩個人教無為。
其中一個人教人什麼都不做，整天當一個懶惰蟲。
另外一個人教人用道法自然的方式努力修煉。

你能說因為兩個人用的名詞相同，就認為兩個老師教的內容是相同的吧？

這麼簡單的道理，聰明人應該一看就能懂。
 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by awaken

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

In general my concern is more to do with the teacher or the environment… for example, zifagong is practiced in some churches… it appears a little different - but it’s still the same thing… except in church people are told that it’s the Holy Spirit working through them.

I always wondered about this. There’s no way hundreds of people could all be faking their speaking in tongues or weird behaviour.

[freeform]

38 minutes ago, awaken said:

One of the main reasons why I responded to you today is that you seriously misled others.

You have your doubts, but you do not present your doubts as a question, but in a misleading way, and you will mislead others by doing so.

I didn’t ask you a question because I thought you had blocked me

 

I had no intention of starting a discussion with you. And I wasn’t even talking about you in the first place.

 

It might surprise you that you’re not the main character in other people’s awareness.

 

I simply quoted what you said to continue with the discussion with others here.

 

Quote

For example, you applied the wrong methods of other teachers to me without understanding what I said.

No I didn’t.
 

Read it again.

 

You wrote yourself into that story.

 

I simply reminded people that zifagong has potential issues. 
 

I didn’t say that how you teach has issues.

 

I just mentioned that people need to be careful and use discernment…

 

Thousands of teachers, gurus and masters use zifagong. You're not the only one.

 

You get very defensive and seem to react as if you’re always under attack by everyone.
 

I’m not attacking you, I’m not misrepresenting you. Please don’t be upset. I’m glad you’re sharing what you’re sharing - I’m not out to get you.
 

 

[Shadow_self]

6 minutes ago, freeform said:

I didn’t ask you a question because I thought you had blocked me

 

I had no intention of starting a discussion with you. And I wasn’t even talking about you in the first place.

 

It might surprise you that you’re not the main character in other people’s awareness.

 

I simply quoted what you said to continue with the discussion with others here.

 

No I didn’t.
 

Read it again.

 

You wrote yourself into that story.

 

I simply reminded people that zifagong has potential issues. 
 

I didn’t say that how you teach has issues.

 

I just mentioned that people need to be careful and use discernment…

 

Thousands of teachers, gurus and masters use zifagong. You're not the only one.

 

You get very defensive and seem to react as if you’re always under attack by everyone.
 

I’m not attacking you, I’m not misrepresenting you. Please don’t be upset. I’m glad you’re sharing what you’re sharing - I’m not out to get you.
 

 

 

Whatever you do don't try to dig deeper into the terminology around the hare and the crow

 

It's black liver dammit!!   

Edited January 18, 2023 by Shadow_self