help Which of these systems is good to start?

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I always wondered about this. There’s no way hundreds of people could all be faking their speaking in tongues or weird behaviour.

It appears all over the world in different guises.

 

It’s there in Bushman culture, in Norse cultures, in evangelical churches, in shamanism… it’s there in certain Muslim methods too.

 

All these ‘light language’ people doing their ‘speaking in tongues’ stuff - it’s all based around the same natural process…

 

It always appears differently depending on how you’re pre-conditioned. 
 

It’s a real thing. 
 

If it’s conditioned in a way that allows it to release mental, emotional, physical blockages and refine the flow of qi then it’s very beneficial… But it can (and is) subverted for all manner of other stuff too.

[liminal_luke]

Awaken's spontaneous practice sounds very similar to me to Jenny Lamb's Yi Gong (the original version of Kunlun).  If I'm understanding correctly, both teachers emphasize awareness and total spontaneity -- no autosuggestions.  I think it's difficult to practice in a totally spontaneous manner, easy to trick oneself into thinking a practice is spontaneous when it really isn't.  For instance, in my own "spontaneous" practice I have certain habits of movement and I wonder if I'm falling into the groove of doing what I've done in the past rather than being truly spontaneous.  Also, I tend to value certain experiences over others.  I think my practice is better, for instance, if there's lots of movement versus stillness.  This prejudice can lead me away from spontaneity.  Another bugaboo is goals.  Sometimes I set up an intention for my practice -- for instance, that it helps me with my health.  I suspect Jenny Lamb would say not to do this.  

 

I will try to be less contrived in my future practice.  Easy to say, somewhat harder to do.

 

[freeform]

16 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

For instance, in my own "spontaneous" practice I have certain habits of movement and I wonder if I'm falling into the groove of doing what I've done in the past rather than being truly spontaneous.

Probably an ingrained pattern that you’ve not been able to shift quite yet. Or may be a pattern that you’re reintroducing even after it’s shifted. Being concerned that it’s repetitive also adds a subtle conditioning 😅

 

Quote

Also, I tend to value certain experiences over others.  I think my practice is better, for instance, if there's lots of movement versus stillness.  This prejudice can lead me away from spontaneity.

It should actually lead to stillness… just be present with it and you’ll find that much like the tides - what appears still on the outside moves much more strongly on the inside.

 

The way I’ve been taught is that movements should eventually stop… then more subtle changes in the consciousness can take place of their own accord.

[Shadow_self]

36 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Awaken's spontaneous practice sounds very similar to me to Jenny Lamb's Yi Gong (the original version of Kunlun).  If I'm understanding correctly, both teachers emphasize awareness and total spontaneity -- no autosuggestions.

 

I found it very curious that Both Max and Jenny seem to have fallen to the wayside in recent years. You rarely hear their names mentioned anymore

 

Seemed to me they were all over the place a little over a decade ago. Cant speak to Jenny, but Max is certainly a curious fellow

[liminal_luke]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I found it very curious that Both Max and Jenny seem to have fallen to the wayside in recent years. You rarely hear their names mentioned anymore

 

Seemed to me they were all over the place a little over a decade ago. Cant speak to Jenny, but Max is certainly a curious fellow

 

According to her website Jenny is retired.  As far as I know Max is still doing his thing though you're right, we don't hear much about him anymore.   Max is indeed a "curious fellow" -- one of the more understated comments you've made on the board lately.  

[ChiDragon]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:35 AM, almaxy said:

Which systems builds more jing?
Which systems heals the most?

 FYI:
It is the jing(精) that builds up the body.  In modern term, perhaps, it may be considered jing is the body cell. Building more jing which means replenish the body. It maintain the health of the body. In the same token, the body cells have to keep alive too. It is just a different way of saying for the jing and body cell in a differnt time frame. However, the two are differ in name but came from the same source.

I am just wondering is there anyone would buy what I am saying here?

[Cobie]

6 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

… I am just wondering is there anyone would buy what I am saying here?

I respect what you say. it is based on 40 years of practice, on the lineage you learned from and on the knowledge of the native scholars. You studied a lot and you practiced a lot. Over a lifetime, you took in a lot of information, digested it and formed your own system. I admire that, kudos to you. 

I read most of your posts with interest and have learned a lot from you. Thank you.

 

As to “buying it” … no. I have my own system which is different. Peace. 

[ChiDragon]

12 minutes ago, Cobie said:

I have my own system which is different.

Thank you, Cobie
May I hear something about your own system?

[Sahaja]

My personal understanding of it is a step in the change of one’s body mind  in practice in response to Yang qi interacting with one’s unique mental and physical structure.   To help complete the change  you relax, ignore it  and let the change take place. Eventually it resolves or changes to something else. If you attach to and/or get involved with it it it may keep repeating without the change taking place. Having said that ignoring the more dramatic versions maybe a little more challenging. A sense of humor about it helps.  Treat it like it’s a 4 year old playing, give it space to play but set boundaries.  Good news is that it’s your body and in most instances you can stop it if you choose to. 

[Cobie]

3 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Thank you, Cobie
May I hear something about your own system?

You are very welcome.

Thanks for asking. Maybe another time.

[johndoe2012]

19 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I found it very curious that Both Max and Jenny seem to have fallen to the wayside in recent years. You rarely hear their names mentioned anymore

 

Seemed to me they were all over the place a little over a decade ago. Cant speak to Jenny, but Max is certainly a curious fellow

 

Found Max here 

 

https://primordialalchemist.org/

[Shadow_self]

28 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

Found Max here 

 

https://primordialalchemist.org/

 

Oh he's there alright

 

He just doesn't seem to be a name that people gravitate towards anymore. Like if you search the forum he was a big one a few years back

 

I suspect some of that might be related to the people who were attempting to put the roof on the house before the foundations were laid  

 

Generally speaking, that has the potential to get really messy

 

[liminal_luke]

51 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I suspect some of that might be related to the people who were attempting to put the roof on the house before the foundations were laid  

 

Generally speaking, that has the potential to get really messy

 

 

I miss the old days when the boards were aflame with Kunlun threads and it seemed like everyone was flying off to seminars and/or fighting off huge reptiles.  That was fun.

[Shadow_self]

17 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I miss the old days when the boards were aflame with Kunlun threads and it seemed like everyone was flying off to seminars and/or fighting off huge reptiles.  That was fun.

 

I fought a reptile once

 

Fun times

 

 

[forestofclarity]

18 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I miss the old days when the boards were aflame with Kunlun threads and it seemed like everyone was flying off to seminars and/or fighting off huge reptiles.  That was fun.

 

It is very interesting to see where people ended up after some time-- be it connecting to more traditional sources or spiraling into madness with DIY systems. It will be more interesting in another 10-20 years if the forum is still around.

 

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I miss the old days when the boards were aflame with Kunlun threads and it seemed like everyone was flying off to seminars and/or fighting off huge reptiles.  That was fun.

 

Or giving random girls O's at McDonld's which isn't creepy at all lol. 

[dwai]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I miss the old days when the boards were aflame with Kunlun threads and it seemed like everyone was flying off to seminars and/or fighting off huge reptiles.  That was fun.

There was Kunlun, Flying Phoenix, Spring Forest (and the O@AD stuff unfortunately associated with it), Stillness Movement, Verdesi, BK Frantzis, Gary Clyman, and so on. Like passing clouds they all are against the background of the Dao (and it's bums). 

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

There was Kunlun, Flying Phoenix, Spring Forest (and the O@AD stuff unfortunately associated with it), Stillness Movement, Verdesi, BK Frantzis, Gary Clyman, and so on. Like passing clouds they all are against the background of the Dao (and it's bums). 

 

What's trending these days?

[dwai]

50 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

What's trending these days?

Damo Mitchell  

[Jadespear]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:35 AM, almaxy said:

Hello everyone, I'm new to daoism and I was searching for some systems that I could start practicing.

 

I heard I can practice all of these alone because they are safe.

 

So, here are the systems I googled into and I want your opinion on which one can get more healing benefits.

 

First of all I want to heal myself and build more jing, I don't want supernatural powers or spiritual enlightenment at the moment, I just want to be a healthy person above average, if possible. If someone can help me, please, I will be very grateful!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lotus Nei Gong(Damo Mitchell) - https://damomitchell.com/the-academy/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spring Forest Qigong - https://www.springforestqigong.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheng Zhen - https://shengzhen.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flying Phoenix Chi Kung - http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming - https://yangjwingming.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Which systems builds more jing?
Which systems heals the most?
Which systems can cause unexpected and unwanted kundalini awakening?(that's one of my concerns too, if one of the above systems can cause it, please, let me know)

 

 

Thanks in advance!!

 

 

I'd begin by training all 3 parts of yourself... the mind, the spirit, and the body.  

 

Simply begin to eat a taoist way...balance yin and yang with the 5 elements 

Cleanse the mind to purify the spirit by embracing nothingness and space

Meditate to focus on beginning the microcosmic orbit meditation to enhance and amplify qi flow for optimal health

[Maddie]

Here is a question regarding qigong systems. Which ones(s) are best for emotions? 

[liminal_luke]

13 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

Here is a question regarding qigong systems. Which ones(s) are best for emotions? 

 

What does "best for emotions" mean?  With most forms of spiritual practice I find that I become more aware of unpleasant emotions -- sadness, anger, shame, etc.  This isn't an easy experience but if I can allow myself to be with these feelings I  often end up coming out the other side, sometimes ending up with feelings of ease and even joy.  I personally value the "getting to know myself better" aspects of my practice.  Mostly.  At least in theory.  Sometimes the emotions my practice elicits are overwhelming and I end up stopping.  It's very hard to release an energetic  block without becoming aware of the energetic block first, and awareness can be painful.  Different people are ready for different things at different times in their lives.

[awaken]

I am amazed that someone even said that the five elements can be used to balance yin and yang.
This statement is very problematic.
The five elements in alchemy（Dan Dao） are mental, wood, water, fire, and earth.
Soil(earth) represents the purity of mind(thoughts).
Water and fire represent Qi and Shen.
Mental and wood represent rabbit marrow and black liver.
The procedure is to cultivate water and fire first, and then add pure earth to produce wood and mental.
Wood and mental, together with pure earth, will produce golden elixir.
And the whole cultivate procedure is to go back and forth between yin and yang.
So it is impossible to have the so-called use of the five elements to balance yin and yang.
Because yin and yang don't need to be balanced, yin and yang need to be fully enforced.

 

我很訝異竟然有人說出用五行來平衡陰陽這樣的說法。
這個說法是非常有問題的。
在丹道當中的五行是金木水火土。
土代表意念的清淨。
水和火代表氣和神。
金和木代表兔髓和烏肝。
程序是先練水和火，加上清淨的土，就會產生木和金。
木和金，加上清淨的土，就會產生金丹。
而整個修煉的程序，就是在陰陽當中來回反覆。
所以不可能會有所謂的用五行來平衡陰陽這樣的說法。
因為陰陽不需要被平衡，陰陽需要被徹底執行。

 

I hope you will read more alchemy classics and establish correct concepts so as not to be misled by strange terminology explanations.

 

希望各位要多看一些丹道的經典，建立正確的觀念，以免被奇怪的名詞解釋所誤導。

 

 

In addition, the concept of emptiness mentioned above is also very distorted, emptiness cannot be embraced, and emptiness can only be created by the elimination of yin.

And the creation of emptiness must be accompanied by the production of mandala. If there is no mandala, but only emptiness, it is a false emptiness, which is called obstinate emptiness in Chinese.
It means the false emptiness caused by sticking to a little consciousness, the false emptiness like stagnant water.

 

另外，上面有人提到的虛空概念也非常扭曲，虛空無法被擁抱，虛空只能因為陰的消除而產生。

而虛空的產生必定伴隨曼陀羅的產生，如果沒有曼陀羅，只有虛空，那就是假虛空，中文稱為頑空定。
意思就是死守一點意識所造成的假虛空，像死水一樣的假虛空。

 

 

真空必然生妙有

 

The real void must produce a mysterious existence

Edited January 20, 2023 by awaken

[awaken]

On 2023/1/19 at 2:59 AM, liminal_luke said:

Awaken's spontaneous practice sounds very similar to me to Jenny Lamb's Yi Gong (the original version of Kunlun).  If I'm understanding correctly, both teachers emphasize awareness and total spontaneity -- no autosuggestions.  I think it's difficult to practice in a totally spontaneous manner, easy to trick oneself into thinking a practice is spontaneous when it really isn't.  For instance, in my own "spontaneous" practice I have certain habits of movement and I wonder if I'm falling into the groove of doing what I've done in the past rather than being truly spontaneous.  Also, I tend to value certain experiences over others.  I think my practice is better, for instance, if there's lots of movement versus stillness.  This prejudice can lead me away from spontaneity.  Another bugaboo is goals.  Sometimes I set up an intention for my practice -- for instance, that it helps me with my health.  I suspect Jenny Lamb would say not to do this.  

 

I will try to be less contrived in my future practice.  Easy to say, somewhat harder to do.

 

 

 

I'm self-suggestive.
I suggested to myself to be aware of my inner thoughts.
If you don't practice awareness of your own thoughts, you will be carried away by hidden values.

The reason why this kind of practice is difficult is because you sit and practice indoors, so your qi is too weak to "use lead to suppress mercury".

You have to practice outdoors so that you have enough yang energy to produce strong lead.

 

我有自我暗示的。
我自我暗示要覺察內在的念頭。
如果沒有練習覺察自己的起心動念，會被隱藏的價值觀帶著走的。

這種練法很難的原因，是因為你坐著在室內練，所以你的氣太弱，不足以「以鉛制汞」。

你要去戶外練，這樣你才有足夠的陽氣可以產生強大的鉛。

 

I don't know who Jenny is, I only know that what I cultivate is the inheritance of ancient alchemy.

So my second book is about Enlightenment(WuZenPian).
Next, I will also write about Lu Zu.

 

我不知道Jenny是誰，我只知道我練的，就是古代丹道的傳承。

所以我的第二本書寫的就是悟真篇。
接下來，我會把呂祖也寫出來。
 

When your qi becomes strong easily, you don't need to use any technique to strengthen your qi at all.

We need to know that Qi is water and Shen is fire. Qi belongs to Yin, and Shen belongs to Yang.
Therefore, qi belongs to yin, and a good external environment is full of qi.
For example, a pine forest and a room full of furniture, if you cultivate in these two different environments, but you don’t feel any difference at all, then you really need to review your cultivation methods.
Being completely unaware of the aura of the surrounding environment is a very serious problem, especially for a person who has practiced for several years, this should not happen.

 

當你的氣很輕易的變強的時候，你根本不需要使用任何技巧去加強你的氣。

我們要知道，氣就是水，神就是火。氣屬於陰，神屬於陽。
所以屬於陰的氣，好的外在的環境是充滿了氣的。
例如一片松樹林，跟充滿家具的室內，如果你在這兩種不同的環境修煉，卻完全沒有任何不同的感覺，那你真的要檢討自己的修煉方法了。
對於周圍環境的氣場完全沒有覺知，是非常嚴重的問題，特別是對一個練了好幾年的人來說，這是不應該發生的事情。

Edited January 20, 2023 by awaken

[Sahaja]

Sort of an interesting conundrum using a method  that has a goal of generating something spontaneous when the  definition of the word spontaneous includes “without external stimulus”. On the other hand, Zi fa gong that arises as an unintended by-product during a self cultivation practice that has a different goal is less contrived and more of a spontaneous nature. Less prone to attachment too when it’s not the immediate goal of the practice.