Mind Body cultivation

[ChiDragon]

11 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

So, Channels, Mind, Body.

 

Strong relationship right?

I have never denied that! However, mind and body are two different entities need to be discussed separately here.

Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Shadow_self]

3 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I have never denied that!

 

Nobody suggested you did  

 

So we access the mind via the body through the channels

 

Mind body cultivation.

 

Shall we explore this further? What is your opinion

[ChiDragon]

Mind and body are two different entities need to be discussed separately here. We can do without connecting to the channels.

[doc benway]

50 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Thanks, I can only learn from my own mistakes. I shall remember and learn from this embarrassment

I’m sorry, I didn’t intend to embarrass you. I know it’s not your first language - just trying to be helpful. 

[doc benway]

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Mind and body are two different entities need to be discussed separately here. We can do without connecting to the channels.

Where is the separation? Where does mind end and body begin? Mind, body, channels… all just labels made up to describe and define elements of our experience.

[Shadow_self]

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Mind and body are two different entities need to be discussed separately here. We can do without connecting to the channels.

 Are they?

 

Get angry and tell me you dont feel something change in your body  

[ChiDragon]

6 minutes ago, steve said:

I’m sorry, I didn’t intend to embarrass you. I know it’s not your first language - just trying to be helpful. 

Oh no, It was not your fault.
I didn't mean you embarrassed me. It was my own embarrassment for making the spelling mistake.

[Lairg]

It could be that there is a physical/etheric body, an emotional body, a mental body and a buddhic/heart body.

 

Each is an energy structure on its own plane - with many resonances/harmonics to higher and lower octaves

 

 

[ChiDragon]

6 minutes ago, steve said:

Where is the separation? Where does mind end and body begin? Mind, body, channels… all just labels made up to describe and define elements of our experience.

Again, the mind is mental and the body is physical. Cultivating the mind is for mental health and cultivating the body by martial exercise is for physical heath. What takes place inside the body is biological. It is a different approach in explanation. The way you guys are suggesting is the Neidan approach. Thus we are speaking with different terms.

[Shadow_self]

5 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Again, the mind is mental and the body is physical. Cultivating the mind is for mental health and cultivating the body by martial exercise is for physical heath. What takes place inside the body is biological. It is a different approach in explanation. The way you guys are suggesting is the Neidan approach. Thus we are speaking with different terms.

 

If you exercise, it improves your mental health

 

Exercise is not neidan  

[ChiDragon]

29 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 Are they?

 

Get angry and tell me you dont feel something change in your body  

Part of Cultivating the mind is not to get angry. Even though you are real mad, but you must maintain the mind in a calm state. This is what cultivation is all about. Cultivation of the mind is to suppress some bad things from happening.

Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

5 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

If you exercise, it improves your mental health

 

Exercise is not neidan  

I'd never said the Exercise is neidan. I only said that: "The way you guys are suggesting is the Neidan approach."

[Shadow_self]

6 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Part of Cultivating the mind is not to get angry. Even though you are real mad, but you must maintain the mind in a calm state. This is what cultivation is all about.

 

3 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I'd never said the Exercise is neidan. I only said that: "The way you guys are suggesting is the Neidan approach."

 

The point of these examples are to show you that the mind and body are not separate

 

Cultivate the body, it affects the mind

 

Cultivate the mind it affects the body

 

The are on a continuum

 

Does that make sense friend? 

[doc benway]

9 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

The way you guys are suggesting is the Neidan approach."

 

I’m referring to a natural and spontaneous consequence of the exercises the OP posted, yoga and qigong (and I added taijiquan) not to any particular internal approach. Although it is necessary to remain attentive and connected to what is happening. At least that was my experience and that of many of my classmates and students.

[ChiDragon]

9 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Cultivate the body, it affects the mind

 

Cultivate the mind it affects the body

Cultivate the body is easy to do and understand.

Okay, what is your approach in cultivating the mind?

Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

8 hours ago, dmattwads said:

My question is aside from systems like Qigong and Yoga asana being healthy for the body, can they be used to cultivate the mind and if so, how so?

 How would you interpret this question?

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

Okay, what is your approach in cultivating the mind?

 

I do it in three ways

 

I work with the body to affect the mind by using Yi Jing Jing principles, which are grounded in somatic experiences

I use non contrived breathing practices to manage the bridge between body and mind

I use mental training and certain training of other aspects or qualities (like gratitute)

 

All of this works in tandem to transform the mind  But mostly, the body is the access point  

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I do it in three ways

 

I work with the body to affect the mind by using Yi Jing Jing principles, which are grounded in somatic experiences

I use non contrived breathing practices to manage the bridge between body and mind

I use mental training and certain training of other aspects or qualities (like gratitute)

 

All of this works in tandem to transform the mind  But mostly, the body is the access point  

"I use non contrived breathing practices to manage the bridge between body and mind"
I don't understand this part.

"I use mental training and certain training of other aspects or qualities (like gratitute)"
Finally, this sounds like the mental cultivation of the mind. This where the separation is, the mind and body are apart. This is what I want to hear from you.

Okay! I understood your approach. Your thoughts are still maintained the same approach at the beginning. You have never step into my thoughts which is okay. I guess we can stop here!

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

 How would you interpret this question?

 

My interpretation:

i know yoga and qigong are good for the body, can they benefit the mind and if so, how?

 

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

"I use non contrived breathing practices to manage the bridge between body and mind"
I don't understand this part.

 

I know you dont  But ask a few questions and maybe you will

 

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

 

"I use mental training and certain training of other aspects or qualities (like gratitute)"
Finally, this sounds like the mental cultivation of the mind. This where the separation is, the mind and body are apart. This is what I want to hear from you.

Hold on a moment

 

The mental training creates somatic sensations, and I work with these sensations too

 

Nothing is as simple and straightforward as you think my friend  

 

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Okay! I understood your approach.

Do you? 

 

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Your thoughts are still maintained the same approach at the beginning. You have never step into my thoughts which is okay. I guess we can stop here!

 

I know what you are trying to say

 

But like I said, try to get angry and see if you can do so without it affecting your body  

[ChiDragon]

36 minutes ago, steve said:

 

My interpretation:

i know yoga and qigong are good for the body, can they benefit the mind and if so, how?

 

My understanding in cultivation of the mind is to increase the mentality of the mind such as enhancing wisdom and knowledge. Thus does the good body resulted from qigong and Yoga enhance the wisdom and increase the knowledge of the mind as benefits？I would say it did not. Wisdom and knowledge have to acquired externally, not internally from the body to the mind.

Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

14 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

My understanding in cultivation of the mind is to increase the mentality of the mind such as enhancing wisdom and knowledge. Thus does the good body resulted from qigong and Yoga enhance the wisdom and increase the knowledge of the mind as benefits？I would say it did not.

 

Would you say that a sick and  burdensome body support a healthy and well functioning mind?

 

Do you feel that you’ve experienced no mental benefits from your decades of taijiquan and qigong practice? From your breathing? 

 

Where is the dividing line between mind and body, at the skin?

[awaken]

It is because the Buddhism you have come into contact with only takes care of the heart but not the body. This is not the original appearance of Buddhism.

The original Zen Buddhism is the Zen Buddhism taught by Bodhidharma, with the Lenga Sutra as the fundamental classic.

After the Political Monk Shenhui, it was changed to focus on the Six Patriarch Altar Sutra.

 

The meridians, qi and mind are always together, and they will be separated only when they practice heresy.

Cultivating the mind is not not to be angry, but to see yourself who is angry.
The cultivation of the mind in Taoism is mainly the pure soil, that is, the mind that is not drawn by blind desires.

 

Cultivation is not about suppressing emotions, and suppressed emotions will eventually be deposited in the five internal organs.

Therefore, in the process of cultivating, not only should you not suppress your emotions, but you should let your emotions volatilize.

Our brain does not need to be in a state of calm, but the brain has to stop functioning temporarily to allow deep awareness to emerge.

 

是你接觸的佛教只有照顧到心沒有照顧到身體，並非佛教的原始面貌如此。

最初的禪宗，是達摩所講的禪宗，是以楞伽經為根本經典的。

到了政治和尚神會之後，才改成以六祖壇經為主。

經脈和氣和心靈本來就是一起的，只有練到旁門左道才會分開。

修心不是不要生氣，而是看見正在生氣的自己。
道家中的修心主要是清淨的土，也就是不受盲目的慾望所牽引的意。

修煉不是壓抑情緒，壓抑的情緒最終都會沈積在五臟當中。

所以在修練的過程中，不僅不應該壓抑情緒，更應該讓情緒揮發出來。

我們的頭腦不需要處於平靜狀態，而是頭腦必須要暫時停止運作，讓深度的覺察出現。

 

There is too much distorted knowledge in the world of cultivation, and it is impossible to find the truth among these distorted knowledge.

 

修煉的世界有太多扭曲的知識，在這些扭曲的知識當中，要找到真相，是不可能的事情。

 

For example, if you wishfully believe that Buddhism only has a cultivation mind, this is distorted knowledge.

 

例如你一廂情願的認定佛教只有修煉心，這就是扭曲的知識。

 

Why do you think so?

Because you only listen to Buddhist masters, you never read Buddhist scriptures directly.

 

為什麼你會這樣認為？

因為你只有聽佛教大師說話，你從不直接看佛教經典。

 

Why do you think that the practice of Taoism is to suppress emotions and keep the mind calm?

That's because you only listen to qigong masters, and you never directly read Taoist classics.

 

為什麼你會認為道家的修練就是要壓抑情緒，保持大腦的平靜？

那是因為你只有聽氣功大師說話，你從不直接看道家經典。

 

When you think that masters can understand classics, then you are really mistaken.
The world these masters live in is different from ours. We live in an information-rich age. There is no reason for us to make these mistakes unless your values lead in a certain direction.

 

當你以為大師都能看懂經典，那你就真的誤會大了。
這些大師所在的世界，和我們不同，我們活在資訊豐富的時代，我們沒有理由犯這些錯誤，除非你的價值觀導向特定的方向。

 

The four foundations of mindfulness are one of the most basic teachings of the Buddha. If you ignore the four foundations of mindfulness, you are tantamount to fabricating a non-existent Dharma.

The four places of mindfulness are the places where the four thoughts are placed.

The first is the body.
The cultivation practice taught by the Buddha begins with the body.

Please stop saying that Buddhism ignores the cultivation of the body. This is a lie and a wrong message from false masters. Please discard such wrong statements.

 

四念處是佛陀最基本的教義之一，如果你忽略了四念處，你等於就假造了一個不存在的佛法。

四念處就是四個心念擺放之處。

第一個就是身體。
佛陀所教導的修煉，就是從身體開始的。

請不要再說佛教忽略身體的修煉，這是謊話，是假大師所傳遞的錯誤訊息，請屏棄這樣的錯誤說法。

 

Taoist practice never talks about suppressing emotions, please read Lu Zu's hundred-character inscription carefully.

"Whether it's moving or quiet, you know that you can truly dominate"

Taoist practice does not focus on suppression, but on awareness of the existence behind.

 

道家修煉從來不說壓抑情緒，請仔細看呂祖百字銘。

動靜知宗主

道家修煉不講究壓抑，而講究覺察背後的存在。

 

 

The accumulated emotions are suppressed in the five internal organs, and will gradually surface during cultivation.
These blind emotions are not easy to create as long as we are not drawn by blind desires.
But as long as we are drawn by blind desires, emotions are bound to arise.
When emotions arise, in order to create the illusion of calm, we take actions to suppress emotions, which will harm our body.
The Yellow Emperor's Canon of Internal Medicine clearly states that emotions harm the body.
Emotions do not hurt the body only when they are released. On the contrary, emotions that are not released can also damage the body, and are repressed deeper.

 

堆積的情緒壓抑在五臟當中，在修煉當中會逐漸浮現出來。
只要我們不受盲目的慾望所牽引，這些盲目的情緒就不容易被製造出來。
但是只要我們受到盲目的慾望所牽引，情緒就一定會產生。
當產生情緒之後，為了製造平靜的假象，而做出壓抑情緒的舉動，這樣就會傷害到我們的身體。
黃帝內經就很清楚地說明了情緒傷害身體的條文。
情緒並非發作出來才會傷害身體，相反的，不發作出來的情緒同樣也傷害身體，而且被壓抑的更深。
 

Edited January 22, 2023 by awaken

[ChiDragon]

16 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Would you say that a sick and  burdensome body support a healthy and well functioning mind?

 

Do you feel that you’ve experienced no mental benefits from your decades of taijiquan and qigong practice? From your breathing? 

The former is not.

To answer the latter.

Yes, it does. It only gives me a healthy mind but does not enhance my wisdom without acquire external knowledge. To acquire knowledge, the mind has to be done externally.

Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

If the mind has the wisdow with the desirable knowledge how the body functions and gives what the body wants, wouldn't you say that the body would be more beneficial？