100 Days of practice/to persevere or not

[gekko]

Hello there, 

 

I'm a newbie here, seeking thoughts on 100 days of qigong.

 

I know the figure of 100 days pops up often in qigong literature, that one should persevere for this amount of time to see results. 

 

I've done 100 days each of a few styles now (Fragrant Qigong, Spring Forest Qigong including sessions w/Master Lin, Zhan Zhuang).

 

Sadly I haven't seen the results I had hoped to. 

 

Which leaves two possibilities in my mind: either I don't respond to these styles, or am going to need to persevere for longer. 

 

Does anyone have any thoughts/advice?

 

I'm a bit bummed that qigong hasn't payed dividends so far, but I am still hopeful of finding a style that works for me (in boosting vitality+expanding consciousness). 

 

Thanks kindly 

[awaken]

Because it is impossible for you to practice the active method to produce a hundred-day evolution.

Only the law of inaction can have a hundred days of evolution.

After 100 days of practicing Wuwei, almost 90% of the people can successfully produce small medicines.

So it is called Hundred Days Building Foundation.

 

 

因為你練有為法是不可能有產生一百天的演化的。

只有無為法才會有一百天的演化。

無為法在練了一百天之後，幾乎百分之九十以上的人，都能成功的產生小藥。

所以稱為百日築基。

 

 

I have been teaching the law of inaction here since 2016.

But no one is willing to spend three months trying to persist in producing evolution.

Because the power of misdirection is too strong, when your mind misleads your practice, it is difficult for you to find the right direction.

 

我從２０１６年就在這裡講無為法。

但是卻沒有人肯花三個月的時間去努力堅持產生演化。

因為誤導的力量太強大了，當你的頭腦誤導你的修煉的時候，你就很難找到正確的方向。

Edited January 22, 2023 by awaken

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, gekko said:

Hello there, 

 

I'm a newbie here, seeking thoughts on 100 days of qigong.

 

I know the figure of 100 days pops up often in qigong literature, that one should persevere for this amount of time to see results. 

 

I've done 100 days each of a few styles now (Fragrant Qigong, Spring Forest Qigong including sessions w/Master Lin, Zhan Zhuang).

 

Sadly I haven't seen the results I had hoped to. 

 

Which leaves two possibilities in my mind: either I don't respond to these styles, or am going to need to persevere for longer. 

 

Does anyone have any thoughts/advice?

 

I'm a bit bummed that qigong hasn't payed dividends so far, but I am still hopeful of finding a style that works for me (in boosting vitality+expanding consciousness). 

 

Thanks kindly 

 

Not seeing results in 100 days of consistent practice can mean a few things.

You may have received poor or inadequate instruction and guidance, details often matter.

You may not have understood the instructions clearly or may not be practicing with accuracy and precision, this is where in person instruction can be highly advantageous. 

Your expectations may be unreasonable.

The particular method may not be a good fit based on your karma. 

The effects of qigong, even when practiced optimally, can be subtle and difficult to recognize.

While it certainly can take longer than 100 days to see the kind of results you may hope for, there should be some clear perceptible effects of practice in that time frame, that's where that number comes from. 

It is said there are 3 ingredients (some say more) to a successful outcome - 

- a capable teacher

- a credible lineage

- a dedicated student 

For these things to come together, proper conditions must come together. 

For some, better sleep, nutrition, physical exercise and activity may boost vitality better than qigong. 

"Expanding consciousness" may be more easily achieved through meditation. 

Good luck in your search!

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, gekko said:

've done 100 days each of a few styles now (Fragrant Qigong, Spring Forest Qigong including sessions w/Master Lin, Zhan Zhuang).

 

Sadly I haven't seen the results I had hoped to. 

(in boosting vitality+expanding consciousness). 

were you promised these results when signing up?

[gekko]

Hello everyone,

 

Thanks for responding to my post/questions.

 

Taoist Texts, I think you might have combined two of my sentences there to form a slightly different meaning to what I intended.

 

I wasn’t saying that I expected vitality AND expanded consciousness from 100 days of qigong.

 

I was saying two independent things: firstly, that I hadn’t seen the results I had hoped after trying several styles of qigong for 100 days. Secondly, that I was hopeful of finding a style that boosts vitality and expands consciousness.

 

Am I expecting too much? Possibly, but it’s certainly not more than the people who teach these styles talk about.

 

Fragrant Qigong has a good reputation and the person I learnt it from certainly suggests that healing and psychic powers can be attained from its practice.

 

http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/fragrant_qigong

 

Regarding Spring Forest Qigong, here is a quote from Master Lin:

 

“I committed myself to 100 days of qigong practice when I first started practice Qigong.  I helped myself to heal my arthritis, bone spurts, and even suicidal depression.  The experience and results were marvelous!  I want you to feel the same benefits like what I feel.”

 

https://www.springforestqigong.com/100-days-of-qigong

 

 

Finally in regard to Standing Qigong/Zhan Zhuang:

As far as I am aware, Lam Kam Chuen has a good reputation and he describes Zhan Zhuang as ‘The most powerful form of Chi Kung’ (The Way of Energy, 1991).

He also notes ‘It is usually said that after 100 days of Chi Kung exercise most people can be sure to see results’ (1991, p. 169).

 

Also in regard to standing meditation/qigong, Y. P. Dong writes that practicing ‘regularly for even less than a year, one can go from weakness to strength, from sickness to vibrant health’ (Still as a Mountain, Powerful as Thunder, 1993, p. 17).

He also talks about how qigong breathing exercises and standing meditation can alter consciousness. ‘The I Chuan method of breathing, combined with standing meditation, is the safest and fastest method of developing and circulating this tremendous energy, which lies dormant within the human body…and which is the source of all higher consciousness.’

(Still as a Mountain, Powerful as Thunder, 1993, p. 69).

 

Am I expecting too much? I would say no from these above examples.

 

Is it possible that qigong over-promises? I guess that’s another question entirely.

 

I certainly do not mean to disparage these styles or teachers, in fact I respect them all a great deal. But my experience is that in the 100 day time frame, I didn’t get the effect I had hoped.

 

Hence the question of whether to persevere or not….

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by gekko
spelling mistake

[ChiDragon]

51 minutes ago, gekko said:

He also notes ‘It is usually said that after 100 days of Chi Kung exercise most people can be sure to see results’ (1991, p. 169).

What he said is just a number. It really depends on the physical condition of each individual. The way of breathing is the key to determine the final result. Breathing coordinates with the movement; and the movement coordinates with the breathing. Breathing must breathe slow and deep down to the abdomen. If the breath did not go deep down to the abdomen, then it would be less effective in reaching the final result.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, gekko said:

Is it possible that qigong over-promises?

they do. to put it mildly

1 hour ago, gekko said:

Hence the question of whether to persevere or not….

i would not persevere with qigong. but you can learn simple sitting or standing from youtube. those are much more useful than any qigong.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

@gekko

 

I would recommend you try Flying Phoenix, you can check the website here for the supposed benefits:

 

http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

 

The benefits I have seen so far (in a year of practice) is:

- better eyesight

- less body pain/aches (this is very important for me because I work 12 hour shifts and stand all day at work)

- no cold/flu since starting practice

- better sleep, usually wake up a few mins before my alarm 

- less stress, less anger. I’m not immune to stress or anger but they only affect me for less than a minute then my mood is back to normal

- once during practice I felt extreme bliss take over my body 

 

What I have been taught as well is to always end your qigong sessions with at least 10 minutes of seated stillness
 

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Breathing must breathe slow and deep down to the abdomen. If the breath did not go deep down to the abdomen, then it would be less effective in reaching the final result.

 

This is a very important point. You need to master breathing in your lower abdomen. 

[freeform]

On 22/01/2023 at 2:54 AM, gekko said:

I've done 100 days each of a few styles now (Fragrant Qigong, Spring Forest Qigong including sessions w/Master Lin, Zhan Zhuang).

Well done for the perseverance and discipline it took to do that!

 

Thats almost a year of daily practice - well done  

 

With no disrespect meant - these systems you’ve mentioned are simplified methods for older folk or for the masses. Designed as simple, gentle follow-along movements - helpful for many people indeed…

 

But if you’re reasonably healthy, active and young - these will have minimal effect (and Lam Jam’s ZZ, is problematic imo)… For older folk with arthritis - it may be a different story.

[Nahfets]

On 22.1.2023 at 3:54 AM, gekko said:

 

 

Does anyone have any thoughts/advice?

 

 

As mentioned proper low belly breathing is needed also applying correct wuji posture for the breathing and movements to align. It can be tricky at first and ofc. its not assured to work for everyone but once I understood the basics it really kicked of with the benefits.

 

I can reccommend this guys most popular videos on the movements as well as the wuji posture. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/@dr.jasongordon5464/videos

[Indiken]

.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Indiken

[Maddie]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

With no disrespect meant - these systems you’ve mentioned are simplified methods for older folk or for the masses. Designed as simple, gentle follow-along movements - helpful for many people indeed…

 

But if you’re reasonably healthy, active and young - these will have minimal effect (and Lam Jam’s ZZ, is problematic imo)… For older folk with arthritis - it may be a different story.

 

This was exactly my experience. I gave Qigong several good years and it didn't really notice any difference. Later I started Pilates and after just a month noticed a lot of difference. 

[mcoolio]

16 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

This was exactly my experience. I gave Qigong several good years and it didn't really notice any difference. Later I started Pilates and after just a month noticed a lot of difference. 

 

Pilates is very good qigong/neigong preparation IMO.

[Master Logray]

18 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

This was exactly my experience. I gave Qigong several good years and it didn't really notice any difference. Later I started Pilates and after just a month noticed a lot of difference. 

 

 

There are differences at first.  But they wane off eventually, as perceive by many people. 

[ChiDragon]

35 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

There are differences at first.  But they wane off eventually, as perceive by many people. 

Yes, Pilates do not have the same effect as qigong.

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

 

There are differences at first.  But they wane off eventually, as perceive by many people. 

 

Do you mean Pilates only have a difference at first? Because I consistently feel like I'm in better shape longer I do pilates.

[gekko]

Hey everyone, 

 

Thanks to each of you for your responses+thoughts, they are appreciated. 

 

Thanks Pak_Satrio for the mention of Flying Phoenix, that may well be the next thing I try. I know that others on this forum have spoken highly of the style.

 

I realise I've probably asked questions here essentially that don't have an answer, but I thought there might be others out there who might have travelled the same terrain (doubt and confusion, essentially).

 

Sadly, I think the answer is probably the obvious one.

 

I have read that the focus is often on the  'QI' in qi-gong, but the emphasis should actually be on the 'GONG', which apparently translates to discipline, perseverance, life long skill etc. 

 

(Read this in a qigong book years back, but can't remember the exact source). 

 

Maybe it's just about finding something you like enough to commit to, be it qigong or something else. 

 

I don't have the answers. I don't know if anyone does, honestly. 

 

I wish everyone peace and good health. OM MANI PADME HUM 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Master Logray]

11 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Do you mean Pilates only have a difference at first? Because I consistently feel like I'm in better shape longer I do pilates.

 

I mean Qigong usually have some effects, at first.   After a while, there is no longer discernible effects.

 

I think Pilates serve different purposes from Qigong.    Qigong also has many stretching functions.  But in general I don't like stretching inside Qigong, Neigong, Kung Fu or Chinese dance.   Because they often stretch in standing or movement mode, tend to be vigorous, easy to hurt as one needs to take care of movement, balance and stretching together.   While Yoga, and Pilates too, have many stationery stretching.  It is far more safer and can be fine tuned. 

[mcoolio]

21 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

I mean Qigong usually have some effects, at first.   After a while, there is no longer discernible effects.

 

I think Pilates serve different purposes from Qigong.    Qigong also has many stretching functions.  But in general I don't like stretching inside Qigong, Neigong, Kung Fu or Chinese dance.   Because they often stretch in standing or movement mode, tend to be vigorous, easy to hurt as one needs to take care of movement, balance and stretching together.   While Yoga, and Pilates too, have many stationery stretching.  It is far more safer and can be fine tuned. 

 

Can't say I fully agree. In the beginning, qigong will have little effect, especially if you do only qigong. And if after a while there are no longer discernible effects, you are definitely doing it wrong I think. It should become stronger and stronger.

 

Average adult body is simply too stiff, too much rigidity in the joints, stiff spine, especially sacrum area, tight and tense muscles, or on the other hand too weak, flabby muscles, instable overly loose joints, .... Doesn't matter that much if you did a lot of sports in your life because most sports will build up some kind of imbalance in your body in some way.

 

Will be very difficult to effectively move qi through such an overly rigid or overly loose body. Is like a guitar string which is either too tight or too lose, the vibration will not pass through.

 

So especially in the beginning, probably need to do something more physical to prepare the body. Pilates is excellent because is very effective for mobilizing the lower back, stomach, hip area, which is obviously and import place that needs to be open and without tension.

 

Once your body is more open, qigong, neigong and breathing will become much more important and will allow you to reach and mobilize those deeper "stuck" zones that you were not able to reach with only physical work.

 

The fastest is probably to have both a little bit of physical work and some qigong stuff in your daily routine. They will work in synergy and then you just have to experiment and see if you need to do one of either a little bit more, mix up the order in which you do them, ...

 

So my advice for OP is too keep doing qigong stuff but also add in some daily physical work. But, to be honest, if the school you learned your qigong from was not already advocating the same thing, I would have my doubts ...

 

I think having a real transformation through qigong takes a long time and perseverance. I am still walking that path. But 100 days should be enough to feel something positive and usually when a "sleeping" body starts to "wake up" it will produce a reaction.

[freeform]

100 days should certainly be enough to feel something…

 

I would say actually 21 days.

 

If you can’t feel something ‘unusual’ happening internally in 21 days - then you’re probably practicing a dud system.

[Master Logray]

6 hours ago, mcoolio said:

I think having a real transformation through qigong takes a long time and perseverance. I am still walking that path. But 100 days should be enough to feel something positive and usually when a "sleeping" body starts to "wake up" it will produce a reaction.

 

In the beginning stage, a Qigong exercise should be able to manifest some results within 100 days, in general much shorter than that.  But the saying of 100 days is strange.  Because in Neidan books, it often talks about 100 days laying the foundation, but it doesn't mean starting an exercise for 100 days.   The "laying foundation" though is a bit off topic.

 

What I mean is not the first 6 months to 1 or even sometimes 2 years.  I mean beyond 2 years, to decades.  The feeling of Chi disappeared.  Of course there would be sensations during the exercise itself.   But these rather belong to the sport sensation than the "Chi" sensation.   On the physical change in the body, there are probably other factors at work during a longer period.  So it is not conclusive whether a Qigong exercise attributes to a certain change in body strength, flexibility etc etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sahaja]

I just completed my 1st year in a qi gong practice . While it’s certainly not 24/7, I often do feel increased energy and a pleasant buzz that I would attribute to the practice . My wife of 33 years describes the change in me as my heart being more open than it used to be. While some of this is related to things that started happening prior to commencing this practice, I still think it accelerated this trend and made a difference.

 

When I started this practice I made a commitment to myself  to do 20 minutes static standing practice and 30 minutes still sitting practice as a minimum each day. On top of this was yoga type practices that I had been doing for years to loosen things up and additional moving practices in qi gong and martial arts (as well as walking/hiking for general fitness) . Since I am retired I have the luxury of time though not the luxury of a younger, more supple body! I didn’t use a 100 day or 21 day rule. (My understanding is that the “100 day rule” is more about stilling the Jing in preparation for internal alchemy practices ) At the end of one year there were 3 milestones that I checked my progress against which when applied I could see change in myself.  Two of the milestones were things that you can physically check. One was mental that was much more subjective but still measurable . I saw the most achievement on the most physical milestone and the one needing the most work was on the milestone that was primarily mental.

 

I think what helps me feel progress and to keep trying is  the experience of qi manifesting at the physical level (along with  increasing the length of time to comfortably sit still and keeping awareness stable for longer periods without the mind wandering). At the physical level this means qi manifesting as contraction and movement of tissue deep inside the body during the practice to the point the effect can be seen by someone else. Getting to 20 minutes of standing correctly with all the focus points in place (and now  longer) was pretty demanding both physically and mentally. While these energy movements aren’t the goal (the goal is a more efficient and healthy mind/body through using the practices) they make it easier to see the impact of the practice, reinforce practice of the underlying principles correctly, and still make me chuckle in disbelief when the movements actually physically arise. I sometimes wonder if that is what happens in everybody’s qi gong programs. 

 

While I know it’s not easy to keep a positive mindset over an extended timeframe, I think the practices can be worthwhile.  If you can find a program that is intended to provide a physical, tangible manifestation of qi I think it helps with the reinforcement but even more importantly points to the possibility that it’s actually doing what it is supposed to do. If one is moving one’s arms and hands around in qi gong and it’s not accompanied by tangible energy movement deep inside the body after suitable time and effort or perhaps more importantly, if the people you are doing it with don’t exhibit qualities you aspire to then maybe it’s time to  look for another teacher/program. Whatever program you choose if it’s too physically and mentally easy it likely isn’t going to help you change. I don’t think the magic is necessarily in the particular  movements or style chosen but is rather in observing the correct underlying principles (like bones up/flesh down, release of tension, stable attention not intention,  breathing with the lower abdomen , mental/physical discipline) and like Patanjali says in repeated practice with detachment.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nahfets]

I've been using healing herbal extracts and working with these medicines for a lot of years now and implementing those in my routines were a game changer for me to say the least. They helped me maintain my focus and become able to keep up an excercise regiment and don't get overwhelmed in social situations thus able to lead a mostly normal life. 

On the other hand it didn't clear a lot of my emotional turbid qi that was locked inside of my system and even though I did sprinting, weightlifting, fasted and meditated (the basic Westernized mindfullness) it didn't really help me get passed those destructive energies in my system. 

I had a nervous energy around me at all times, my voice was stressful to listen to even for myself, and I kept repeating certain selfdestructive tendencies. 

 

I discovered medical qigong as well as the technique of the MCO after only a few sessions I felt better than I had for as long as I could remember. My voice was calm and came from a still deep place in my body even during stress. My body and energy felt light and I started to feel heat in my body arising which also activated my kidneys giving me energy beyond anything I could have achieved with medicines but it at the same time came from such a balanced state of being. My pace of walking became so light and joyious after a few sessions and I became able to look people in the eye with a big smile. Something I haven't really done for years. I would scan my body during the day using the MCO for blockages I would have gotten from subtle stress and clear them as soon as they arose rather than waiting for a good sleep to reset my nervous system or selfmedicate my way out of it. 

 

The key is really in the correct wuji posture, slow and consicous movements of the subtle body alongside the movement, as well as applying stillness in equal amounts as you do cultivation. (for me at least) 

I also coupled this with sessions of breath of fire and reverse breathing and it became way more powerful both the qigong as well as the stillness as energy would heat up move to my spine and all of that stuff. 

 

For medical qigong this guy can't be recommended enough as he talks you through all of the movements and visualizations during the forms. 

https://www.youtube.com/@dr.jasongordon5464/videos

 

He has sets of Hun Yuan, Yi Quan as well as Daoist Five Yin Qigong, all really powerful in of themselves. Parred with sitting meditation / cultivation some stillness this should be able to make a vast difference for ones practice. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Nahfets

[Lo2022]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:48 AM, Pak_Satrio said:

@gekko

 

I would recommend you try Flying Phoenix, you can check the website here for the supposed benefits:

 

http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

 

The benefits I have seen so far (in a year of practice) is:

- better eyesight

- less body pain/aches (this is very important for me because I work 12 hour shifts and stand all day at work)

- no cold/flu since starting practice

- better sleep, usually wake up a few mins before my alarm 

- less stress, less anger. I’m not immune to stress or anger but they only affect me for less than a minute then my mood is back to normal

- once during practice I felt extreme bliss take over my body 

 

What I have been taught as well is to always end your qigong sessions with at least 10 minutes of seated stillness
 

 

This is a very important point. You need to master breathing in your lower abdomen. 

 

Have you seen any spiritual shifts or benefits as well? My physical health *knock on wood and v grateful* is pretty good--I am more interested in mental, emotional, and spiritual effects? Thank you 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 hours ago, Lo2022 said:

 

Have you seen any spiritual shifts or benefits as well? My physical health *knock on wood and v grateful* is pretty good--I am more interested in mental, emotional, and spiritual effects? Thank you 

I wouldn’t say I’ve had much spiritual effects so far, but definitely keeps me in a good mood and my memory is better. I’ve been practicing it for a year so still relatively early.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Pak_Satrio