Recommendable and not legit systems

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Enough for now.

Yes very boring. Any newcomer reading the thread now will be completely put off by cultivation and head directly to the strip club for beer and chicken wings. 
 

I want to hear more horror stories from different lineages.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Pak_Satrio

[Shadow_self]

11 minutes ago, kakapo said:

 

The motivation here is to convince serious seekers that this is real.

 

Seems like an awful lot of effort. You guys seem to have a very clear definition of what constitutes proof

 

Because I know it is your thing, why not ask a few scientists and doctors to catch the thing on video, then present that. If a person was of a like mind, they'd probably come to you. Seems like it saves you all a bunch of money, time and effort?

 

Personally, I dont find the electrical thing a good measure. I think I explained why earlier. The effect isnt always whats faked, sometimes it is the cause. And that is far more difficult to capture

 

How would you say, convince someone who said that? (Dont worry im not trolling you, just curious)

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

36 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Seems like an awful lot of effort. You guys seem to have a very clear definition of what constitutes proof

 

Because I know it is your thing, why not ask a few scientists and doctors to catch the thing on video, then present that. If a person was of a like mind, they'd probably come to you. Seems like it saves you all a bunch of money, time and effort?

 

This is a good idea. Make a video of current Western Mo Pai practitioners doing exactly what Pak John did in his video with the scientists and doctors present. That will clear up a lot of things.

 

But even then that doesn't solve the problem of lineage. They are still not allowed to join the actual Mo Pai, so they will never progress past a certain point unless they decide to figure things out for themselves, but at that point it will turn into completely new practices unless they get lucky and find the exact same practices that Mo Pai do for higher levels. 

 

In my opinion it's not worth starting a path if it will lead to a dead end. If you want to invest years of your life and so much of your time doing practice then do something that has a chance of taking you to the end of the road, not something that barely scratches the surface.

[Shadow_self]

7 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

 

This is a good idea. Make a video of current Western Mo Pai practitioners doing exactly what Pak John did in his video with the scientists and doctors present. That will clear up a lot of things.

 

Im just curious why thats not been done up to this point. I mean why go to all that trouble? If this is the burden of proof expected to undertake something for them, isnt that the burden of proof that should be provided?

 

7 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

But even then that doesn't solve the problem of lineage. They are still not allowed to join the actual Mo Pai, so they will never progress past a certain point unless they decide to figure things out for themselves, but at that point it will turn into completely new practices unless they get lucky and find the exact same practices that Mo Pai do for higher levels. 

 

Mo Pai is rather odd. Ive seen some of the practices near replicated in Tenaga Dalam, on more than one occasion

 

7 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

In my opinion it's not worth starting a path if it will lead to a dead end. If you want to invest years of your life and so much of your time doing practice then do something that has a chance of taking you to the end of the road, not something that barely scratches the surface.

 

Im not sure what the end of the road is for them to be honest.

 

Seems they are concerned with breaking the transmigration cycle, but Im not sure there is any evidence of Mo Pai doing that.

[kakapo]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Seems like an awful lot of effort. You guys seem to have a very clear definition of what constitutes proof

 

Because I know it is your thing, why not ask a few scientists and doctors to catch the thing on video, then present that. If a person was of a like mind, they'd probably come to you. Seems like it saves you all a bunch of money, time and effort?

 

Personally, I dont find the electrical thing a good measure. I think I explained why earlier. The effect isnt always whats faked, sometimes it is the cause. And that is far more difficult to capture

 

How would you say, convince someone who said that? (Dont worry im not trolling you, just curious)

 

If the evidence we can provide convinces them, great!

If the evidence we can provide does not convince them, then that's unfortunate.

We do the best we can with what we have.

[kakapo]

25 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

 

This is a good idea. Make a video of current Western Mo Pai practitioners doing exactly what Pak John did in his video with the scientists and doctors present. That will clear up a lot of things.

 

But even then that doesn't solve the problem of lineage. They are still not allowed to join the actual Mo Pai, so they will never progress past a certain point unless they decide to figure things out for themselves, but at that point it will turn into completely new practices unless they get lucky and find the exact same practices that Mo Pai do for higher levels. 

 

In my opinion it's not worth starting a path if it will lead to a dead end. If you want to invest years of your life and so much of your time doing practice then do something that has a chance of taking you to the end of the road, not something that barely scratches the surface.

 

There were actually threats of a lawsuit the last time we tried this.

The assumption is that they will only agree to the publication of a video if it appears that they have discovered fraud; if the video is used to validate something of this nature, it will harm their reputation.

We had a legal contract drafted.

This was done to protect us against such a thing in the future.

By signing it, they lose their ability to revoke consent to publish and their ability to sue if we did so against their wishes.

 

This seems to be very off-putting; we've contacted a few dozen people, but none are willing to sign it as part of the demonstration.

We have also contacted every single paranormal challenge we are aware of and have been told that, because the human body can act as an antenna, EMF is the most likely cause.

We have demonstrated in national forest service land, far, far away from any power line or power source, in places where there is no cellphone service even.

This does not seem to affect their decision not to investigate.

[kakapo]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Im just curious why thats not been done up to this point. I mean why go to all that trouble? If this is the burden of proof expected to undertake something for them, isnt that the burden of proof that should be provided?

 

 

Mo Pai is rather odd. Ive seen some of the practices near replicated in Tenaga Dalam, on more than one occasion

 

 

Im not sure what the end of the road is for them to be honest.

 

Seems they are concerned with breaking the transmigration cycle, but Im not sure there is any evidence of Mo Pai doing that.

 

Not everyone in our group wants that; some just want to practice something they know for a fact is legitimate.

Edited February 5, 2023 by kakapo

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

So the earth doesn't have a qi field then? Is this the stance you are taking? 

yes i do. At the big bang the bang split into living qi and inanimate matter which coagulated into planets. The earth being a shard of the latter on its own does not have qi.

[Shadow_self]

32 minutes ago, kakapo said:

 

There were actually threats of a lawsuit the last time we tried this.

The assumption is that they will only agree to the publication of a video if it appears that they have discovered fraud; if the video is used to validate something of this nature, it will harm their reputation.

We had a legal contract drafted.

This was done to protect us against such a thing in the future.

By signing it, they lose their ability to revoke consent to publish and their ability to sue if we did so against their wishes.

 

This seems to be very off-putting; we've contacted a few dozen people, but none are willing to sign it as part of the demonstration.

We have also contacted every single paranormal challenge we are aware of and have been told that, because the human body can act as an antenna, EMF is the most likely cause.

We have demonstrated in national forest service land, far, far away from any power line or power source, in places where there is no cellphone service even.

This does not seem to affect their decision not to investigate.

 

Academics will rarely stick their neck out for you.

 

They are often rather fear based folk (sorry to anyone who is an academic but it is true). Incase anyone thinks this claim is unfounded I could provide a lot of evidence across multiple fields. Most are more concerned with the promotion and the paycheck than doing their job correctly (where uncovering truth is concerned)

 

I am going to tell you now the vast majority of them are dishonest (In many ways, from manipulation of figures to all sorts)  and a large portion of the remainder are  simply too afraid to touch such a topic.

 

There is a very big vested interest in keeping the materialistic worldview going.

 

The very few I do know that are willing to, have already been at loggerheads and been booted from certain universities for touching stuff far tamer than this.

 

Granted some are in other far lower ranked places since this, but they were seriously reprimanded for their actions.

 

That being said, there are too other people who aren't privy to the bureaucracy of "big academia" .

 

It might be the case you have not looked in the right places

 

30 minutes ago, kakapo said:

 

Not everyone in that group wants that; some just want to practice something they know for a fact is legitimate.

 

To what end if not that, curiously? Just to see where it goes

 

I'd be curious to know, have any of you actually went for an MRI scan?  No academic would be needed for that, you can book them yourselves and go right ahead, and come out with the images and a report  

 

Im pretty sure in John's video, he had a very visible dantien

 

Something to consider....

 

 

Quote

‘cinnabar field as firm as a stone’

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Shadow_self

[Shadow_self]

16 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes i do. At the big bang the bang split into living qi and inanimate matter which coagulated into planets. The earth being a shard of the latter on its own does not have qi.

 

Interesting

 

What does Di Qi 地氣 mean? 

[kakapo]

37 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Academics will rarely stick their neck out for you.

 

They are often rather fear based folk (sorry to anyone who is an academic but it is true). Incase anyone thinks this claim is unfounded I could provide a lot of evidence across multiple fields. Most are more concerned with the promotion and the paycheck than doing their job correctly (where uncovering truth is concerned)

 

I am going to tell you now the vast majority of them are dishonest (In many ways, from manipulation of figures to all sorts)  and a large portion of the remainder are  simply too afraid to touch such a topic.

 

There is a very big vested interest in keeping the materialistic worldview going.

 

The very few I do know that are willing to, have already been at loggerheads and been booted from certain universities for touching stuff far tamer than this.

 

Granted some are in other far lower ranked places since this, but they were seriously reprimanded for their actions.

 

That being said, there are too other people who aren't privy to the bureaucracy of "big academia" .

 

It might be the case you have not looked in the right places

 

 

To what end if not that, curiously? Just to see where it goes

 

I'd be curious to know, have any of you actually went for an MRI scan?  No academic would be needed for that, you can book them yourselves and go right ahead, and come out with the images and a report  

 

Im pretty sure in John's video, he had a very visible dantien

 

Something to consider....

 

 

 

 

 

I think lots of people have lots of reasons; I can't speak for every person.

For me, you know, if I could, I would love to explore Antarctica, the ocean depths, and even the galaxy at large.

For me, this is about finding something that is real—exploration into the unknown.

[ChiDragon]

53 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

What does Di Qi 地氣 mean? 

It is a gasous substance emmited from earth.

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

It is a gasous substance emmited from earth.

 

It is a gaseous substance emitted from the earth. Interesting

 

Can you put some into a canister and send it to me  for analysis in that case?

 

Genuine request

[Cobie]

 

39 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

It is a gasous substance emmited from earth.

That’s what I found too.

 

地氣 (earth's atmosphere) is what people in ancient China called the water vapor evaporated from the surface.
地氣是中國遠古時人們所稱的地表蒸發的水氣。 

dì qì shì zhōngguó yuǎngǔ shí rénmen suǒ chēng dì dìbiǎo zhēngfā de shuǐ qì.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Cobie

[Shadow_self]

37 minutes ago, kakapo said:

For me, this is about finding something that is real—exploration into the unknown.

 

I agree

 

A good litmus test of that would be whether the physical aspects of the Lower Dan Tien were formed

 

Dont you think that would be far harder to fake?

 

 

[kakapo]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Shadow_self]

24 minutes ago, kakapo said:

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

As much a question as a suggestion to be honest

 

I assume that given that you have all been training in Mo Pai, someone has reached this degree of development?

 

Because, if so, I think it would be really easy to put questions to bed doubts

[kakapo]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

 

As much a question as a suggestion to be honest

 

I assume that given that you have all been training in Mo Pai, someone has reached this degree of development?

 

Because, if so, I think it would be really easy to put questions to bed doubts

 

We'll be sticking to our demonstrations for now, but if we can find a medical professional who is a US citizen and willing to sign a legally binding contract with us, this may be something we can provide in the future.

We won't be posting any videos or evidence without expert testimony to accompany it.

 

[Shadow_self]

Just now, kakapo said:

 

We'll be sticking to our demonstrations for now, but if we can find a medical professional who is a US citizen and willing to sign a legally binding contract with us, this may be something we can provide in the future.

We won't be posting any videos or evidence without expert testimony to accompany it.

 

 

FYI for anyone who doesnt know what I am talking about, Im talking about this

 

 

There is one thing though, well two actually

 

#1 They wont need to testify to anything because their report will be the findings of an MRI, and thats pretty much their confirmed professional account of what is on the scan right? .
 

That is really more or less testimony in and of itself right? Accompanied by the scan itself, you pretty much have what you need

 

#2 They don't know what they are looking for, and so, Im fairly sure that they'll be sending you to other doctors if they find a rather large unknown mass in your abdomen. It isnt their career that is under threat as a result of the findings

 

You must understand, asking someone to confirm something paranormal = career suicide in academia

Asking someone to perform an MRI scan because of a concerning pressure in your stomach = Their actual job to investigate

 

All you guys really have to do is go to somewhere that'll give you the report and the scan, which is something you can walk in and get the same day in the UK at least. Once the report is signed, thats your medical information, not theirs, and they cannot really sue you because you didnt do anything except release your own medical report.

 

I mean im not suggesting you go disseminating the results to the world or try to get it broadcast on the news or anything. Really, I'm not

 

Just its kind of clear to me that this is probably the easiest way for any of you to get something close to what you are seeking.

 

It'd certainly quieten the naysayers up at least (if thats something you all want).  For a relatively small fee too I might add

 

It is actually reproducible too, because you can always just follow up to another clinic and repeat it, with a different medical professional, which would actually strengthen the result.

 

Im quite surprised, given the lengths you've went to, you didnt think of doing this sooner.

 

 

[kakapo]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

 

FYI for anyone who doesnt know what I am talking about, Im talking about this

 

 

There is one thing though, well two actually

 

#1 They wont need to testify to anything because their report will be the findings of an MRI, and thats pretty much their confirmed professional account of what is on the scan right? .
 

That is really more or less testimony in and of itself right? Accompanied by the scan itself, you pretty much have what you need

 

#2 They don't know what they are looking for, and so, Im fairly sure that they'll be sending you to other doctors if they find a rather large unknown mass in your abdomen. It isnt their career that is under threat as a result of the findings

 

You must understand, asking someone to confirm something paranormal = career suicide in academia

Asking someone to perform an MRI scan because of a concerning pressure in your stomach = Their actual job to investigate

 

All you guys really have to do is go to somewhere that'll give you the report and the scan, which is something you can walk in and get the same day in the UK at least. Once the report is signed, thats your medical information, not theirs, and they cannot really sue you because you didnt do anything except release your own medical report.

 

I mean im not suggesting you go disseminating the results to the world or try to get it broadcast on the news or anything. Really, I'm not

 

Just its kind of clear to me that this is probably the easiest way for any of you to get something close to what you are seeking.

 

It'd certainly quieten the naysayers up at least (if thats something you all want).  For a relatively small fee too I might add

 

It is actually reproducible too, because you can always just follow up to another clinic and repeat it, with a different medical professional, which would actually strengthen the result.

 

Im quite surprised, given the lengths you've went to, you didnt think of doing this sooner.

 

 

 

Please see my previous statement.

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, kakapo said:

 

Please see my previous statement.

 

Im not interested in the "evidence" per se, dont worry  I already know folk with said Dantien

 

Just pointing out something that you may have overlooked

 

[kakapo]

5 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Im not interested in the "evidence" per se, dont worry  I already know folk with said Dantien

 

Just pointing out something that you may have overlooked

 

 

Thanks.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

There were actually threats of a lawsuit the last time we tried this.

The assumption is that they will only agree to the publication of a video if it appears that they have discovered fraud; if the video is used to validate something of this nature, it will harm their reputation.

We had a legal contract drafted.

This was done to protect us against such a thing in the future.

By signing it, they lose their ability to revoke consent to publish and their ability to sue if we did so against their wishes.

 

This seems to be very off-putting; we've contacted a few dozen people, but none are willing to sign it as part of the demonstration.

We have also contacted every single paranormal challenge we are aware of and have been told that, because the human body can act as an antenna, EMF is the most likely cause.

We have demonstrated in national forest service land, far, far away from any power line or power source, in places where there is no cellphone service even.

This does not seem to affect their decision not to investigate.

What about just doing your own videos without them? At the very least you will get more new students.

[kakapo]

Just now, Pak_Satrio said:

What about just doing your own videos without them? At the very least you will get more new students.

 

Quality over quantity

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 minutes ago, kakapo said:

 

Quality over quantity

Ok if that’s the case then why bother doing all that work to get scientists, doctors etc to prove it is real on camera? That will bring the most amount of new people, and a lot more people who would otherwise have no interest in these arts until some guy in a white coat says it’s real.