Recommendable and not legit systems

[kakapo]

4 hours ago, Barnaby said:

Sounds like a reality TV show 😂

 

Certainly, a private demonstration under controlled conditions would be better, but if we are talking about evidence that can be mass produced and transmitted, that's as good as it gets.

[freeform]

7 minutes ago, kakapo said:

We have looked high and low for good evidence for other systems and not found it.

The issue is that many teachers who are able to do this, actively filter out potential students that are craving this sort of thing…

 

By being so focused on generating power, you’re closing the door on most legitimate teachers for whom the worst nightmare is a bunch of westerners bugging them for superpowers…

 

They don’t show this stuff off in public, they don’t advertise it, they don’t make it a big deal… it’s not a major part of their system… it’s simply a byproduct of having fully open channels and a Dantien that’s full of qi.

 

The teachers who are attracted by the idea of getting a bunch of power hungry (and comparatively wealthy) westerners will generally be scammers… or at best genuinely skilled but with questionable motives…

[kakapo]

11 minutes ago, freeform said:

The issue is that many teachers who are able to do this, actively filter out potential students that are craving this sort of thing…

 

By being so focused on generating power, you’re closing the door on most legitimate teachers for whom the worst nightmare is a bunch of westerners bugging them for superpowers…

 

They don’t show this stuff off in public, they don’t advertise it, they don’t make it a big deal… it’s not a major part of their system… it’s simply a byproduct of having fully open channels and a Dantien that’s full of qi.

 

The teachers who are attracted by the idea of getting a bunch of power hungry (and comparatively wealthy) westerners will generally be scammers… or at best genuinely skilled but with questionable motives…

 

Then, if every teacher who is able is unwilling to do so, I guess we have to hope another person like John shows up or stick with what we have.

We've all spent tens of thousands of dollars chasing fake systems and teachers.

[Barnaby]

4 minutes ago, kakapo said:

We've all spent tens of thousands of dollars chasing fake systems and teachers.

 

You're not alone there.

 

There's a lot of it about 

[Indiken]

5 minutes ago, kakapo said:

We've all spent tens of thousands of dollars chasing fake systems and teachers.

 

Teach yourself if you want something nice, but not superpowers,

There is enough material in internet, books, people behaviour, every person everyday experience.

[freeform]

55 minutes ago, kakapo said:

Then, if every teacher who is able is unwilling to do so, I guess we have to hope another person like John shows up or stick with what we have.

Yeah - they’re not ALL unwilling, I’m sure - but at least the ones I know.

 

There are ways to tell whether it’s an electric device or the real thing (when being emitted into you).

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

I wonder if it's that simple: can you then start and stop the chi projection at will by means of the visualization technique? Otherwise it could well be an effect of static electricity pure and simple...

 

You can do it across the room and only change your finger angles subtly. You can even do it with your eyes but I wouldn't recommend projecting qi out of your eyes. You can even put a thin cloth in between you and the strip of foil and still do it across the room.

[Maddie]

In Buddhism the way to develop powers is generally getting into Jhanna, but the catch is that in order to get into Jhanna you have to quiet the mind and then Jhanna has the effect of lessening the ego so then once you do develop powers they seem much less interesting.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, kakapo said:

Jim only gave us training and video of John up to level 2b; that's as far as his knowledge and experience went.

Even now that we do have video of John teaching later levels, which has been translated from Indonesian, we don't have people who can answer questions for us if need be.

Then what is the point of even learning? You have incomplete instructions and can only reach a certain level after which you don’t have any clue what to do next. 

[Maddie]

I might be a little late to the table for the Mo Pie discussion (I hope I got the spelling right). But what I've never understood is what is the end goal? Enlightenment? If it's just to get powers to light things on fire with your hands I've never understood spending years training to light paper on fire with your hands when you can just go to the gas station and buy a 50 cent lighter?

[kakapo]

11 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Then what is the point of even learning? You have incomplete instructions and can only reach a certain level after which you don’t have any clue what to do next. 

 

We know of no better options.

Our choices are to give up or make the best of what we do have.

Edited February 4, 2023 by kakapo

[kakapo]

11 hours ago, Maddie said:

I might be a little late to the table for the Mo Pie discussion (I hope I got the spelling right). But what I've never understood is what is the end goal? Enlightenment? If it's just to get powers to light things on fire with your hands I've never understood spending years training to light paper on fire with your hands when you can just go to the gas station and buy a 50 cent lighter?

 

It's amazing how many people I and others in our group have argued with over the years about how we're all power-hungry Son Goku wannabes who want to fly and shoot fireballs from our palms.

That's not it at all, not even a little bit.

The end goal of Mo Pai isn't enlightenment either.

Consider how the earth was once a barren rock, similar to how the moon or Mars are now.

How amazing is it that the earth is covered in solar-powered, self-replicating nanomachines that harvest energy from photons to self-replicate and modify their own structures to better adapt to their environment? With all kinds of amazingly complex feedback loops and webs of interactions between different types of nanomachines, these nanomachines eventually figured out the advantage of computation to better adapt and respond to the environment. This has led us to where we are now, and hopefully things keep moving in the same direction they have for billions of years.

It's absolutely dumbfounding how amazing that is, because it would sound like science fiction to me if I couldn't look out my kitchen window and witness it first hand.

That's my opinion: life is pretty @#$ing amazing.

I do not follow any organized religion; my view is that something beyond what could be called a miracle is happening right now, right here, but am I like an insect that is too stupid to grasp its profundity, just as ants can't work differential equations.

Since I was a child, though, it seems obvious to me that we are meant to be doing something, like there is a point to all this, some collective goal this swarm of nanomachines is working towards.

That end goal is not watching Honey Boo Boo, Duck Dynasty, the Kardashians, NASCAR, the NFL, WWE, etc.

The end goal is not to stay drunk on cheap beer and microwave meals and work a 9-to-5 till we wind up in a nursing home.

We are supposed to be doing something, and when I look to nature, it becomes crystal clear what that something is.

If you watch a time-lapse video of an acorn growing into an oak tree, it's fascinating to see the process by which it absorbs energy, pulls water and minerals from the earth, and CO2 from the air, and uses these things to grow and expand.

Life is absolutely wild; think of the energy coursing through that tree, powering it.

 

Mo Pai is focused around the extraction, collection and fusion of yin and yang energies, much like a tree does for much the same reason.

Like I said earlier, I don't follow any organized religion, and I am not a man who likes scripture, but this bit right here really makes me think that maybe Jesus, if he said these words, really understood the point of Mo Pai:

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

 

The Gospel of Thomas

...

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

...

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

...

 Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in a single house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move from here!' and it will move."

...

Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move."

...

Damn the soul that depends on the flesh."

...

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

...

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by kakapo

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, kakapo said:

That end goal is not watching Honey Boo Boo, Duck Dynasty, the Kardashians, NASCAR, the NFL, WWE, etc.

 

The end goal is not to stay drunk on cheap beer and microwave meals and work a 9-to-5 till we wind up in a nursing home.

 

Is this system necessary to accomplish this?

[kakapo]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

Is this system necessary to accomplish this?

 

John said there were 10 others like him alive, but that was 20 years ago; who knows if that figure is still accurate?

If so, that means there are at most 10 other systems that do what Mo Pai does.

 

This all, of course, assumes John's claim was true.

 

[EFreethought]

7 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

We know of no better options.

Our choices are to give up or make the best of what we do have.

If you do not mind my asking: What other systems have you looked at?

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

8 hours ago, kakapo said:

I am not a man who likes scripture

Yet you guys treat Magus of Java like the Bible and hang on to every word.

Like this for example:

 

5 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

John said there were 10 others like him alive, but that was 20 years ago; who knows if that figure is still accurate?

If so, that means there are at most 10 other systems that do what Mo Pai does.

Have you considered that maybe Kosta made some things up to make the story more interesting?

[Master Logray]

9 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

We know of no better options.

Our choices are to give up or make the best of what we do have.

 

Your situation is actually common.  I call It Lost Civilization. 

 

When you learn from a teacher, he could retire, incapacitated, imprisoned, emigrated, or dead.   You may not be able to afford the fee etc.   Then you are stuck forever.   If your teacher belongs to a well-known lineage, then there is a chance to look for his teacher, his fellow disciples, his earlier disciples, his "master uncle" etc for similar teaching, provided what he taught was the lineage's skills, not his own inventions.   If the teacher is a standalone inventor as in your example, then there is nothing similar to draw from.   This is similar to buying a phone from an obscure manufacturer,  you are on your own.

 

It is why many Chinese arts are lost over the ages.  The disciples could not obtain the full teaching of their masters due to many reasons.  Then that school is getting less and less powerful over generations until they become a show, shored up by magics or tales.

 

I have walked away from an interesting art, as it is too obscure, completely not available on internet or even books.   So what happen if I don't have access to that avenue?   I have sufficient experiences of teachers passed away. 

 

If you and your people are still young enough, look for something else.  If not, continue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Maddie]

7 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

John said there were 10 others like him alive, but that was 20 years ago; who knows if that figure is still accurate?

If so, that means there are at most 10 other systems that do what Mo Pai does.

 

This all, of course, assumes John's claim was true.

 

(How does what you said above answer my question below?)

_________________________________

 

"That end goal is not watching Honey Boo Boo, Duck Dynasty, the Kardashians, NASCAR, the NFL, WWE, etc.

 The end goal is not to stay drunk on cheap beer and microwave meals and work a 9-to-5 till we wind up in a nursing home."

 

(Is this system necessary to accomplish this?)

 

 

[Shadow_self]

22 hours ago, freeform said:

The issue is that many teachers who are able to do this, actively filter out potential students that are craving this sort of thing…

 

By being so focused on generating power, you’re closing the door on most legitimate teachers for whom the worst nightmare is a bunch of westerners bugging them for superpowers…

 

I know of at least two teachers who wont even talk about this stuff in public for that very reason, yet behind closed doors there is another situation entirely

 

22 hours ago, freeform said:

They don’t show this stuff off in public, they don’t advertise it, they don’t make it a big deal… it’s not a major part of their system… it’s simply a byproduct of having fully open channels and a Dantien that’s full of qi.

 

The teachers who are attracted by the idea of getting a bunch of power hungry (and comparatively wealthy) westerners will generally be scammers… or at best genuinely skilled but with questionable motives…

 

Of course there is the major elephant in the room here

 

There are many of them that can do that, and yet still fake it most of the time. This is another little trade secret that isn't spoken of

 

There are also mechanical means of messing with the channels and generating qi, including some of the questionable practices I've seen promoted

 

Things like the LED and other electric phenomena, are a very poor test

 

Because what happens if they give you a legit demonstration to hook you in, fake it to the ones who just want "treatments"  then teach you nothings, and have you roped in, all because you believed one demonstration

 

21 hours ago, freeform said:

Yeah - they’re not ALL unwilling, I’m sure - but at least the ones I know.

 

There are ways to tell whether it’s an electric device or the real thing (when being emitted into you).

 

More than one way to falsify certain things

 

In fact if you really wanted to get into it, there are other tests you can use where it is rather hard to fake. 

 

But you still have the issue of whether the energy is generated properly, or mechanically so....

 

Im sure you know what the answer is here, and so do I

 

But I don't feel like saying very much to be honest   (though it is rather obvious)

[Taoist Texts]

14 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

There are many of them that can do that, and yet still fake it most of the time.

this is surprising. Please tell us more. (and welcome back!)

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

this is surprising. Please tell us more. (and welcome back!)

Doing faqi uses up qi. Why waste it on doing a demo to impress thrill seekers when you can use it for healing or to further your own cultivation?

[wandelaar]

19 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Doing faqi uses up qi. Why waste it on doing a demo to impress thrill seekers when you can use it for healing or to further your own cultivation?

 

There's at least one reason I can think of and that is that such (mis)behavior would also make honest seekers after the truth believe that there probably is no real faqi. Not all people interested in faqi are thrill seekers. Of course if there is in fact no real faqi then this wouldn't matter. So faking faqi when you can also do it for real (although less often) messes up the whole thing. It also spoils the trustworthiness of the "master" himself, because apparently he doesn't care that much about the truth so why should we believe him in other matters?

Edited February 4, 2023 by wandelaar

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

30 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

There's at least one reason I can think of and that is that such (mis)behavior would also make honest seekers after the truth believe that there probably is no real faqi. Not all people interested in faqi are thrill seekers. Of course if there is in fact no real faqi then this wouldn't matter. So faking faqi when you can also do it for real (although less often) messes up the whole thing. It also spoils the trustworthiness of the "master" himself, because apparently he doesn't care that much about the truth so why should we believe him in other matters?

If someone can faqi there will be way more people who will doubt that what he is doing is real than those who believe him anyway. It doesn’t matter to them, they know they can do it. Skeptics who doubt them don’t change the reality. It’s up to them whether they want to waste their qi to use it as a demo or not. 

[wandelaar]

Yes it's up to the master, but being a "master" doesn't change the fact that if he fakes faqi (and this becomes known) then the credibility of the "master" will be adversely affected. Not for the true believers for sure (who will keep believing whatever happens) and neither for the diehard skeptics (who wouldn't believe it anyway), but certainly for those with a more open but nevertheless critical mind. It's the last category of people that I am talking about here. Apparently you think that being truthful is optional for a "master". I don't agree - but that's ultimately a moral matter that cannot be decided by arguments alone.

Edited February 4, 2023 by wandelaar

[Taoist Texts]

interesting how this naive idea of wasting or spending qi persists. as if qi  was like gas in the tank or electrical charge in a battery. or the idea that qi can be transferred from one person to the the other as if  human qi was gas from one tank to another or charge between batteries. big mistake.