problem encountered in practice zhan zhuang

[kevvv]

Hi all,

 

Ive been doing taichi and for about 7-8 years and Ive recently encountered problems in practice affecting my breathing.  It started when I began doing zhan zhuang and it specifically ocurred when both kua's became free or open.  Its caused my ribcage to go down and in  too much and one side (the left side) has gone down and in too much and I get a crushing feeling wherethe inhalation/exhalation feels quite restricted. 

I was following the Mantak Chia system mainly but I only did his Tantien Chikung practice and the Tendon neikung practices, nothing else.

 

I have had multiple surgeries previously on that left side around the hypochndriac/epigastric region for hernia's so perhaps this might have interfered with internal adhesions or caused problems with residual scar tissue.  Im also not sure if the tendons that have started to 'appear' from the feet to join the top and lower half might be wrapping too tightly around the bones and especially around the ribcage to cause the breathing problems (in the tendon neikung postures ive held). The right side feels OK, maybe because I didnt have surgery on that side, its only the left side. 

 

Not really sure how to resolve this or who to turn to as there are not many competent persons around that I know of who can resolve this.  I saw my regular accupuncture guy and he said he dont deal with internal work problems so looks like this is gonna be difficult to find help with.

 

Does anyone have any similar experiences or any advice on how to go about correcting such problems?

 

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, kevvv said:

Ive been doing taichi and for about 7-8 years and Ive recently encountered problems in practice affecting my breathing.  It started when I began doing zhan zhuang and it specifically ocurred when both kua's became free or open.  Its caused my ribcage to go down and in  too much and one side (the left side) has gone down and in too much and I get a crushing feeling wherethe inhalation/exhalation feels quite restricted. 

Based on your description, it seems you knew the answer already. Zhan zhuang is causing the left side of the rib cage to go down and in too much. It was restricting your breathing. IMO Hence, it is not suitable for you to continue with the practice of Zhan zhuang.

[Gerard]

Lifestyle

Diet

 

Something is messing up your Middle and Lower Jiaos. This is a long standing and ongoing issue which is going to be hard to heal unless you undergo a profound change in your life and the way and food you eat. 

 

Address these two and you'll heal yourself especially if you do an IMA taught by a competent teacher. Head over the Rum Soaked Fist forum and see if there is one near your area. Also this teacher who holds Chinese Medicine practise is very good. Fully focused on healing rather than combat:

 

http://www.internalintent.com/global

 

He happens to be my teacher's uncle who learned Xingyi Quan from him while living in Perth, Australia. Very competent and serious teacher.

 

Good luck!

 

[Taoist Texts]

11 hours ago, kevvv said:

when both kua's became free or open.  Its caused my ribcage to go down and in  too much and one side (the left side) has gone down and in too much and I get a crushing feeling wherethe inhalation/exhalation feels quite restricted. I have had multiple surgeries previously on that left side

the surgeries prevent "jin  劲" coming up the left side. thats why the left side is crushed by the surrounding jin from the rest of the body。 You can try the right leg weighted stance as in san tishi while resting the left hand on a support.

http://www.ycgf.org/Articles/XY_SanTiShi/XY_SanTiShi.html

 

or sitting.

[kevvv]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

the surgeries prevent "jin  劲" coming up the left side. thats why the left side is crushed by the surrounding jin from the rest of the body。

 

This is similar to what I thought might be happening the jin of the rest of the body is crushing the affected area.  While the rest of the body might be "strong" its hampered by the fact the affected area is very very weak and I constantly encounter it in daily life, your only as strong as the weakest link and all that. 

Its like the lower floating ribs have becomes compressed or 'shrunken'  and it might be due to what you describe as the jin of the rest of the body weighing down on it and crushing it.

This is why I attempted the mantak chia Tantien Chikung techniques which is supposed to 'fill' a specific area with chi or whatever to increase the internal pressure of the affected area.  It's like the internal pressure in the affected area has all the air let out and it needs re-filling. 

Ive tried countless hours to 're-pressurise' the area via Tantien Chikungs techniques but to no avail. It feels like a sharp pain or cut glass like feeling when I encounter the area. 

Do you know of any other techniques that may work or is this something that is probably going to remain this way for good now irrespective of whether I find a competent teacher; im not too hopeful because it feels like something has changed inside as far as the structure is concerned; the body wants to operate with that extra 3D compenent that gets built into the body with zhan zhuang but it can't.

 

 

[kevvv]

9 hours ago, Gerard said:

Lifestyle

Diet

 

Something is messing up your Middle and Lower Jiaos. This is a long standing and ongoing issue which is going to be hard to heal unless you undergo a profound change in your life and the way and food you eat. 

 

Address these two and you'll heal yourself especially if you do an IMA taught by a competent teacher. Head over the Rum Soaked Fist forum and see if there is one near your area. Also this teacher who holds Chinese Medicine practise is very good. Fully focused on healing rather than combat:

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions.  I just feel so compressed in the area along with the crushing type feelings.  That lower jiao area naturally starts to weigh you down and with the faulty structure all the weight seems to go down lop sided and really off balances me.

Its also become difficult to do a no2 on the toilet, yeah I know thats how bad its got.  Surgery seems like the only option but that might cause further problems so i'll probably not go in for that no matter how bad it gets.  Its like the lower floating ribs have been bunched together in that typical rib pump handle motion and become fixated very compressed and shrunken.  I'm wondering since I got myself into this mess there must be a way to reverse this proces and get back to some semi-normal state.

[kevvv]

13 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Based on your description, it seems you knew the answer already. Zhan zhuang is causing the left side of the rib cage to go down and in too much. It was restricting your breathing. IMO Hence, it is not suitable for you to continue with the practice of Zhan zhuang.

 

Yes Id imagine thats when the problems started if Id known that it inappropriate to do this with my previous medical history I would have started but I was advised by one teacher that it was ok to start...I can't really blame them as they weren't to know and I decided to start the practices.  But this aside do you know something that may help to reverse this process?

[Taoist Texts]

50 minutes ago, kevvv said:

Do you know of any other techniques that may work or is this something that is probably going to remain this way for good

nah you gonna be fine. just temporarily switch to sitting practice, do Mantak's body hitting on the affected area, spine stretching, maybe left hand bag punching. The idea is to remove the external pressure from around the area while increasing the internal pressure in the area.

[ChiDragon]

17 hours ago, kevvv said:

I have had multiple surgeries previously on that left side around the hypochndriac/epigastric region for hernia's

 

It is obvious that you have some physical issues. The multiple surgeries had caused you some side effects.

 

47 minutes ago, kevvv said:

But this aside do you know something that may help to reverse this process?

 

It is impossible to restore your physical condition back to the normal state as you didn't have multiple surgeries before.

[freeform]

The ZZ posture is the ‘holding the beachball’ style? Or arms down?

 

I’d suggest stopping any static work and focusing on movement.

 

Even just ordinary walking to start as long as that’s not adding to the pain. 
 

You should be able to resolve it - but avoid static work - and especially the arms lifted postures for a long while.

 

If you can find a competent Tui Na practitioner, that may be helpful too.

[ChiDragon]

Tui Na(推拿) is not effective for internal injury or side effects from surgery. It might be it's only good for muscle aches or temporary nervous pain.

[kevvv]

9 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

 

 

 

It is impossible to restore your physical condition back to the normal state as you didn't have multiple surgeries before.

 

Yeah I meant prior to zhan zhuang not the OP's but yes does appear that surgery is the one type of injury that internal arts is unable to repair.

 

20 hours ago, Gerard said:

 Head over the Rum Soaked Fist forum and see if there is one near your area. Also this teacher who holds Chinese Medicine practise is very good. Fully focused on healing rather than combat:

 

http://www.internalintent.com/global

 

He happens to be my teacher's uncle who learned Xingyi Quan from him while living in Perth, Australia. Very competent and serious teacher.

 

 

 

 

Have looked over RSF a few times but they dont strike me as a lot , except a few, who could deal with what I am presenting or a im not familiar with anyone on there who might be.

 

Internalintent seems like a good site thanks.

9 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

nah you gonna be fine. just temporarily switch to sitting practice, do Mantak's body hitting on the affected area, spine stretching, maybe left hand bag punching. The idea is to remove the external pressure from around the area while increasing the internal pressure in the area.

 

Been like this for 5 years now increasingly worsening, have tried sitting with various mudra's but no luck.  Every timethe area relaxes and I give it a try at expanding the area it seems to cause a lot of 'clicks' which doesn't feel right.

Edited February 11, 2023 by kevvv

[Indiken]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:06 AM, kevvv said:

Not really sure how to resolve this or who to turn to as there are not many competent persons around that I know of who can resolve this.  I saw my regular accupuncture guy and he said he dont deal with internal work problems so looks like this is gonna be difficult to find help with.

 

Acupuncture is internal work by my definition.

Oh those acupuncture guys... 

 

18 hours ago, kevvv said:

your only as strong as the weakest link and all that. 

I think this is correct. Consider the possibility of retreating from activities which require you to be stronger than your weakest link can handle.

 

Also, consider the possibility of doing what your body wants to do. When at home and in no need to behave like others, and body wants to take certain movement, try to take that movement. Also, take note how other body parts want to respond to that movement.

 

Also, be careful,

careful means to take as small step as possible and observe the effects, especially the bad ones. If there is bad one, it is time to stop, analyze and try other options.

 

Good luck.