Location of the middle dantian

[Mrwawa]

Hi all,

 

I practice chen style taijiquan as taught by Feng zhiqiang. I have become more interested in Qigong as taught by Hu yaozhen through Feng Zhiqiang, but am a little confused about the location of the middle dantian. I have mostly heard the middle dantian as being in the chest (near heart). Hu yaozhen refers to the middle dantian below the belly button and seems very close to the lower dantian. 

 

Can anyone help explain this to me. In Hu yaozhen's system, where exactly is the middle and lower dantian?

[Taoist Texts]

29 minutes ago, Mrwawa said:

Can anyone help explain this to me. In Hu yaozhen's system, where exactly is the middle and lower dantian?

 

Quote

 

On the Dan Tian 丹田 - Institute for Classical Asian Medicine

 

20 Aug 2022 — Hu Yaozhen then places the lower Dan Tian at the base of the abdomen in the pelvic cavity, just above Hui Yin 會陰 – the perineum.

On the Dan Tian 丹田 - Institute for Classical Asian Medicine

 

20 Aug 2022 — In Hu Yaozhen's lineage, we located the middle Dan Tian not in the chest, but rather in the abdomen between the navel and Ming Meng

 

 

But then again, these names and locations do not matter the least bit. Because they take your money but  hide from you what is really to be done with these dantians.

[Mrwawa]

29 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

But then again, these names and locations do not matter the least bit. Because they take your money but  hide from you what is really to be done with these dantians.

Thanks for the information, and not sure how I missed that. So curious what you mean by the above quote. Could you expound on it for me?

[Taoist Texts]

16 minutes ago, Mrwawa said:

Could you expound on it for me?

sure thing. take a look at these two posts pls:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40543-misconceptions-of-qigong-neidan-alchemy-20/?do=findComment&comment=676088

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40543-misconceptions-of-qigong-neidan-alchemy-20/?do=findComment&comment=676087

 

[Mrwawa]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

sure thing. take a look at these two posts pls:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40543-misconceptions-of-qigong-neidan-alchemy-20/?do=findComment&comment=676088

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40543-misconceptions-of-qigong-neidan-alchemy-20/?do=findComment&comment=676087

 

 

[Mrwawa]

Thanks for the detailed explanations. Sounds like a lot of charlatans out there!

[ChiDragon]

6 hours ago, Mrwawa said:

 

Can anyone help explain this to me. In Hu yaozhen's system, where exactly is the middle and lower dantian?

Middle means at the middle. How can it be at the lower position？

 

上丹田(upper dantian)

中丹田(middle dantian）

下丹田(lower dantian)

Edited March 9, 2023 by ChiDragon
To add translations

[Mrwawa]

I think that, according to Hu yaozhen, the middle dantian is roughly where the standard lower dantian is located, and his lower dantian was located closer to (synonymous with?) The huiyin. This, the middle was still the middle, since the lower dantian was lower.

 

I am still curious as to why. I know Hu yaozhen was the real deal, so want to know where these locations came from.

[Wilhelm]

6 hours ago, Mrwawa said:

I think that, according to Hu yaozhen, the middle dantian is roughly where the standard lower dantian is located, and his lower dantian was located closer to (synonymous with?) The huiyin. This, the middle was still the middle, since the lower dantian was lower.

 

I am still curious as to why. I know Hu yaozhen was the real deal, so want to know where these locations came from.

On the lower Dan Tien: I was taught in some systems Hui Yin is considered the LDT because it's where Jing is consolidated and later 'fired'.  Other systems put it somewhere in the abdomen, as that's where Qi tends to gather (even TCM recognizes ren4 as the sea of Qi).

 

On the middle Dan Tien: Im practicing master Feng's qigong system (not the Taiji - too complex for me haha) and I was taught to consider the middle Dan Tien as the yellow court region/solar plexus, and you were taught it's somewhere in the heart - so I'm not sure if different students took the material different directions...

 

To add to the confusion, I also studied with another line that traced their lineage up to Hu Yaozhen as well but put the lower dan  mmtien in the lower abdomen, so I'm not sure which he actually taught  - more important is what your teacher wants you to do imo. 

 

As Taoist Texts said, these are all just models - if they work according to your teachers instructions, who cares if other teachers use different models?

Edited March 10, 2023 by Wilhelm

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, Wilhelm said:

who cares if other teachers use different models?

 

IMO Yes, using different models is ok, but they should be universal and consistent.

[Wilhelm]

11 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

IMO Yes, using different models is ok, but they should be universal and consistent.

Good point, I forgot to distinguish between mixing systems and compartmentalizing systems (of thought and practice).  I don't think the former is a good idea, but is very common due to the common human tendency to add their own spin onto what they're taught 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Wilhelm

[Cyric]

I'd highly advise to let things manifest when it's their proper time, but in the mean time I'll do my best to explain from experience. 

There's a bit of confusion as some texts and schools name Huan ting(Yellow court) as the Lower Dan Tian and some that put it behind the diaphragm within the "Jade ring" and the Middle Dan Tian. Such books lead to delusion becoming even more deluded, read less, practice more. 

 

The general area of the Middle Dan tian is the Solar plexus. When Kan ascends it enters at the back between the shoulder blades, Li descends the front with a sensation in the diaphragm. 

 

The lower Dan tian is slightly below the navel. You shouldn't concentrate too hard on it. Keep Shen centered in the head and gently rest your attention at the navel. The turtle(embryonic) breath manifests there as a 'field' about the size of a fist that moves back and forth between Qi Hai and the spine at regular intervals, pulling and relaxing on Hui Yin naturally, which regulates Kan and Li to proper measure. 

All of this requires no intention(yi) whatsoever. When it happens, it will also continue without effort or regulation. 

 

Doing things is easy, it is not De, does not lead to Dao. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Cyric

[Bindi]

On 10/3/2023 at 4:25 AM, ChiDragon said:

Middle means at the middle. How can it be at the lower position？

 

上丹田(upper dantian)

中丹田(middle dantian）

下丹田(lower dantian)

Agreed 🙂

[Mrwawa]

I think that Hu yaozhen placed the lower dantian closer to the huiyin, thus it maintained its "lower" position.

[Lairg]

Some people when they close their eyes can inwardly see their dantiens.  Perhaps it is worth looking to see where they are.

[寒月 Hanyue]

On 09/03/2023 at 4:43 PM, Taoist Texts said:

sure thing. take a look at these two posts pls:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40543-misconceptions-of-qigong-neidan-alchemy-20/?do=findComment&comment=676088

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40543-misconceptions-of-qigong-neidan-alchemy-20/?do=findComment&comment=676087

 

Well thats just a fucking depressing outlook!

Truth is harsh sometimes. The skills, methods and knowledge are out there, but they are hard to come by.

Edited June 2, 2023 by 寒月 Hanyue

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, 寒月 Hanyue said:

Well thats just a  depressing outlook!

to know the true first gotta know the false

 

4 hours ago, 寒月 Hanyue said:

The skills, methods and knowledge are out there, but they are hard to come by.

depends on what we want. what we really really want

 

[exorcist_1699]

Location of  the middle dantian  is always clear , hardly should it  have any quarrels or ambiquity : middle of the breasts .  Generally speaking , women start their cultivation from the middle dantian , men start from the lower dantian ,  the gifted  start from the upper dantian .

Edited June 3, 2023 by exorcist_1699

[taoguy]

On 20/03/2023 at 5:09 AM, Cyric said:

The general area of the Middle Dan tian is the Solar plexus. When Kan ascends it enters at the back between the shoulder blades, Li descends the front with a sensation in the diaphragm.  

 

This... ☝🏻 Middle dantian is underneath the xiphoid process.