Trunk Posted March 17, 2023 I somehow missed the theoretical importance of collagen, recently 'discovered' it. Basically, collagen is the main protein for the entire continuum of connective tissue: fascia ~ tendon ~ ligament ~ bones, which is a main component of what gets developed in qigong, internal martial arts, Daoist internal arts. A friend of mine mentioned that she'd been taking collagen for a while and her hair was noticeably softer. The reviews on amazon: people notice better hair, faster growing nails and joint pain disappearing. These are signs that a lot is going on on the inside that is *very* relevant to connective tissue growth. from Wikipedia Quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collagen ~~ quote ~~ Collagen (/ˈkɒlədʒən/) is the main structural protein in the extracellular matrix found in the body's various connective tissues. As the main component of connective tissue, it is the most abundant protein in mammals,[1] making up from 25% to 35% of the whole-body protein content. Collagen consists of amino acids bound together to form a triple helix of elongated fibril[2] known as a collagen helix. It is mostly found in connective tissue such as cartilage, bones, tendons, ligaments, and skin. Depending upon the degree of mineralization, collagen tissues may be rigid (bone) or compliant (tendon) or have a gradient from rigid to compliant (cartilage). Collagen is also abundant in corneas, blood vessels, the gut, intervertebral discs, and the dentin in teeth.[3] In muscle tissue, it serves as a major component of the endomysium. Collagen constitutes one to two percent of muscle tissue and accounts for 6% of the weight of the skeletal muscle tissue.[4] The fibroblast is the most common cell that creates collagen. Gelatin, which is used in food and industry, is collagen that has been irreversibly hydrolyzed using heat, basic solutions or weak acids.[ ~~ /unquote ~~ p.s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia Fasciae are similar to ligaments and tendons as they have collagen as their major component. They differ in their location and function: ligaments join one bone to another bone, tendons join muscle to bone, and fasciae surround muscles and other structures. I'm pretty sensitive to this stuff, and I start anything new with microdoses. Disclaimer (and I'm not kidding): Health is an *extraordinarily* complex and personal thing. Impossible for me to tell whether this'd be helpful or harmful to any of you. Be discerning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted March 17, 2023 Alternatively, a person could make and drink bone broth. Yesterday I made a chicken soup that got it's chicken-y flavor from a whole barnyard of chicken feet. I'm guessing the powder is a more concentrated source of collagen but I like the image of myself as a modern herbalist/witch/caveman carefully tending to a bucket of simmering bones. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted March 17, 2023 4 hours ago, liminal_luke said: Alternatively, a person could make and drink bone broth. Yesterday I made a chicken soup that got it's chicken-y flavor from a whole barnyard of chicken feet. … myself as a modern herbalist/witch/caveman carefully tending to a bucket of simmering bones. Yeah, I’ve slow-cooked more batches of ox tail soup than I can count. I pour most of a bottle of red wine in, for starters, and usually a little shu di huang, maybe he shou wu ground up. So frickin’ yummy. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted March 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Trunk said: Yeah, I’ve slow-cooked more batches of ox tail soup than I can count. I pour most of a bottle of red wine in, for starters, and usually a little shu di huang, maybe he shou wu ground up. So frickin’ yummy. Sounds delicious! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted March 18, 2023 I make mostly chicken bone broth for both me and my dogs. Good for gut health and metabolism too. The best thing besides helping my joints is that my dogs farting don’t stink up the room anymore. 2 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted March 18, 2023 The powdered collagen I find very convenient. (I bought mine at Trader Joe's; I've not tried the super-duper one at Amazon). I started out with 1/2 the rec. dosage and have moved to much less than that, lol. ... but I get to micro-dose regularly. The one thing I was concerned with is that it feels that it draws in deeply into some dense tissue ... some things need to percolate *out* (especially if health situation is complicated). The collagen didn’t seem to do that stubbornly, just kinda and it would slowly sort out. So, not bad - but still … I found that a couple of amino acid products produce really good circulation and (by my feel) complement the powdered collagen nicely. (After some experimentation separately, I now take them all together). Branch Chain amino acids L Arginine w/ Pine Bark - Trunk p.s. I’ve been out of the supplements game for a while. Seems that there’s tweeks (pine bark?) and variations I’d not seen before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted March 18, 2023 15 minutes ago, Trunk said: The powdered collagen I find very convenient. (I bought mine at Trader Joe's; I've not tried the super-duper one at Amazon). I started out with 1/2 the rec. dosage and have moved to much less than that, lol. ... but I get to micro-dose regularly, super convenient. The one thing I was concerned with is that it feels that it draws in deeply into some dense tissue ... some things need to percolate *out* (especially if health situation is complicated). I found that a couple of amino acid products produce really good circulation and (by my feel) complement the powdered collagen nicely. (After some experimentation separately, I now take them all together). Branch Chain amino acids L Arginine w/ Pine Bark - Trunk Ah, I can't buy powdered collagen easily here, and so I just throw an entire chicken, bones and all, plus any other chicken bones, into an instant pot to pressure cook for three hours with a pinch of salt and tbsp of apple cider vinegar. The gelatin and collagen that comes out is still pretty good. Drink it in the morning when you wake up and after dinner--you'll quickly find your health improve. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quack Posted March 22, 2023 Have been including some Glycine as a cheaper alternative to collagen. Might be worth looking in to. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted March 22, 2023 15 hours ago, quack said: Have been including some Glycine as a cheaper alternative to collagen. Might be worth looking in to. wtf is Glycine??? Reading references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine reviews on popular amazon products I find informative: one https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-Glycine-Powder-500-Grams/dp/B00EOXU0N6/ and another https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Supplements-Glycine-1000mg-Capsules/dp/B002J0RHTQ/ hmmmm... thanks for the tip! p.s. “Friendly oils” complement the amino acids that build the dense connective tissues. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quack Posted March 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Trunk said: wtf is Glycine??? Apologies, i should have explained a little. But i don't have the mental capacity to do so in my own words at this point. This podcast episode and its notes are a compendium on glycine. 2:43 to 8:28 are the cliff notes. https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/049-why-you-need-glycine-a-panel Quote In humans, the most compelling uses of glycine are as follows: 3-5 grams of glycine before a meal protects against rises in blood sugar after that meal; 15 grams of glycine per day protects type 2 diabetics from metabolic dysfunction; 3 grams of glycine before sleep improves your ability to fall asleep and your sleep quality so that you feel more rested when you rise during the day; 15 grams of gelatin taken before a workout with about 50 milligrams of vitamin C promotes getting that collagen into your tendons to help your tendon health. There are rare metabolic disorders that are treated with 20 grams of glycine a day, which prevents the accumulation of ammonia and the toxic effects of metabolic byproducts that accumulate in those diseases. And in schizophrenia, 60 grams of glycine a day has shown beneficial antipsychotic effects. He does recommend taking collagen as a means to get glycine in but glycine is just more affordable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted March 23, 2023 12 hours ago, quack said: Apologies, i should have explained a little. ... None needed!, that was my attempt at humor. I sincerely appreciate your tip, and part of the advantage of group discussion: different people contribute what they have convenient time/energy for ... no expectations, requirements, all good, then others pitch in. (I was happy to be prompted to research more). Welcome to TheDaoBums! - Trunk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted March 24, 2023 Well, I realize that this is a powerful topic (amino acids), more than fits in a thread - and I'm under-educated: Time for a book (not sure if it's the right/perfect one, but it's a start): YUCK. Received this book and the print quality was so bad that my eyes were hurting after reading less than a page. (I do wear reading glasses, but that has *never* happened to me before). Unable to tell whether the actual content is good or not. p.s. Snuck in book on Tibetan art to make $hipping free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted April 5, 2023 On 3/23/2023 at 5:36 PM, Trunk said: YUCK. Received this book and the print quality was so bad that my eyes were hurting after reading less than a page. (I do wear reading glasses, but that has *never* happened to me before). Unable to tell whether the actual content is good or not. Since the prior book didn't work out, I said, "f### it" and ordered 4 diff books from amazon on amino acids. Gonna browse and return those that I don't want. Taking aminos continues to be interesting. (People vary.) I'm pretty sensitive to new stuff, so am micro-dosing and having days between doses. Monday morning micro-dosed an array of aminos, Tuesday in the wee hours of the morning woke up jones'in' for a steak and all kinds of protein. Cravings definitely leaning that way. Feels like an aggressive process of building, repair, or something. Going deep. My skin feels cleaner, if that makes sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted April 19, 2023 @quack, Glycine is turning out to be a real winner! It really does a lot. That it is beneficial to the nervous system, brain, liver and promotes deeper sleep ... wow! The nervous system healing is *really* interesting. For anyone doing deep internal work (personal and/or transpersonal), your nervous system is going to go through some things. And connective tissue benefits. And it's inexpensive. ($12/bottle of 100 caps) I am cautious about taking anything every day, long term. I'm pretty sensitive and micro-dose my way into things. .. My sense is that Glycine is going to be useful for a long, long time (taken judiciously). After buying 5 different books on Amino Acids, and returning 3 of them, here's the quality two that are left standing: A Guide to Amino Acid and Protein Nutrition The Healing Nutrients Within The above two books I find to be serious. (The other 3, not.) Going to take me quite a while on this study. I also find the reviews at amazon helpful: reading cold theory is one side of it, hearing people's actual feelings/sensations/results (in addition to my own) is also very helpful. - Trunk 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blue eyed snake Posted April 19, 2023 yes, the effects of glycine on the body can be very good. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted April 21, 2023 Diet is obviously a big part of this: the amino acids need raw material to work with. I woke up at 3am the other morning (with the sense that my body was an oven of activity while I slept) and thought, “gee, a raw egg would be good right about now”. And similarly through the day, craving for various high protein foods. I think my body is going through rapid changes, which sometimes happens when I start with a supplement: strongly felt effects initially, typically smoothing out over time. Easy, steady, see how this actually goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted May 2, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 7:11 PM, Trunk said: A Guide to Amino Acid and Protein Nutrition Continuing to enjoy the above book, continuing to be impressed. Too early to say that I 'know' anything, yet, lol. Dinner, couple of nights ago I felt decadent and so did what I haven't done in a long time, but used to do more frequently: pastrami special, w/ chili fries and a coke. And I thought to have 1 capsule of each of the amino acid supplements afterward. Now, usually, garunteed, the next morning I'd feel greasy inside and out ... y'know, just kinda yucky that was the hangover part of the 'special'. ... and I'd feel like I had some pastrami & fries still in me the next day ... This time? After taking the amino acids? I felt CLEAN the next day. My skin feels clean. I didn't feel greasy nor heavy at *all*. Impressive. I think that I've gone through most of the extreme results that are often signature of just-starting-something; it's mellowing some. And I have a better sense of what each do, pacing, and dietary complement. Plenty more to learn. Good topic. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted May 25, 2023 The amino acids have recently left me feeling a little dry (despite protein rich diet), so I thought I'd jet to Whole Foods and get some friendly oils. Then I remembered the Budwig Diet - the main idea of which is basically that friendly oils + cottage cheese makes both the oils and the protein assimilate easier. (The Budwig Diet people try and cure serious diseases w/ it, and take it pretty extremely. I just add friendly oils to my cottage cheese as a take-away, not expecting miracles.) Really appreciated the results of cottage cheese + friendly oils + amino acids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
