The Reality Behind Cultivation Methods and Building the Foundation

[Antares]

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

If somebody does not understand words on paper in black and white

Alright, can you understand next words?

Quote

Question: What is the method of the five elements?

Answer: First, observe the precepts, be calm, endure humiliation, be compassionate, do good, eliminate the ten evils, act expediently, save all living beings, be loyal to the ruler, and be filial to parents and teachers. This is the method of practice. Then, learn the true method

 

I hope you are able to see black and white here? 

 

[Taoist Texts]

32 minutes ago, Antares said:

This is the method of practice. Then, learn the true method

hehe thanks for this. In general Eskildsen is brilliant, love him, but he fumbled the ball in this passage. He made a naive mistake which can happen to any one who is not in the tradition. But i am an insider so i will explain it to you.

Quote

 

此是修行之法。然后习真功。

this is the method to cultivate conduct. After it is  trained there will be true  effectiveness.

 

 

It is very easy to  ascertain that he made a mistake, wenyan is not necessary. As you see, the original has two different chars: 法 and 功。 Our Doctor  friend  renders them with the same one word: method.  I hope you see how it might be not quite correct.

[Antares]

55 minutes ago, Antares said:

Question: What is the method of the five elements?

He he, and what about five elements method? There are questions and answers. How sitting and calmness work with it? What about Lesser Vehicle method? I would like you to explain it please 

[Taoist Texts]

43 minutes ago, Antares said:

He he, and what about five elements method? ... I would like you to explain it please 

apparently you are asking what exactly IS the 5 elements method. Since you used the magic word (and also because this is so hilarious) here it is: there is no 5 elements method here.

 

What Dr E.  renders as 5 elements is......(drum roll....)  ....5  moral conducts  (rim shot).

wǔ-xíng

1) five elements (metal, wood, water, fire, earth)

2) five constant virtues (benevolence, righteousness, propriety, knowledge, faith)

 

问曰。如何是五行之法。

诀曰。第一先须持戒。清静。忍辱。慈悲。实善。断除十恶。行方便。救度一切众生。忠君王。孝敬父母师资。此是修行之法。

 

1 hour ago, Antares said:

observe the precepts, be calm, endure humiliation, be compassionate, do good, eliminate the ten evils, act expediently, save all living beings, be loyal to the ruler, and be filial to parents and teachers.

See? Thats the method. Asked and answered.

 

[Antares]

32 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

What Dr E.  renders as 5 elements is......(drum roll....)  ....5  moral conducts  (rim shot).

 

Who is the doctor E.? Do you know from whom Wang Chongyan received transmission? This is not the TCM approach and methods, and you seem to be confused. No chance to comprehend what it is about without teacher. Period. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Antares

[Blissdao9]

13 hours ago, Antares said:

Again, you are describing the Northern path of meditations. It's worth keeping in mind that stillness and calmness are Yin. Cultivating only Yin can easily create an imbalance in energy. This way of cultivation can lead to excessive consumption of Yang Qi. It's a very common mistake made by many practitioners

You are not looking at the bigger picture. Stillness is a quality of the overall system that allows for stability and balance. Without stability, one cannot cultivate to higher heights or intensities. You overestimate your understanding of the system, as its capabilities far surpass that which you can imagine. One can only understand the outer layer if one primarily looks at Yin and Yang. 

Let me ask you a question. What is your cultivation, level of intensity, and state of being? 

[mrpasserby]

On 4/15/2023 at 1:16 AM, Antares said:

 Not directly from his writing but nevertheless I have one at least from an article of a сontemporary researcher.

 

 

Gratitude for finding and posting these words. I have no word smith skills to express the bounty of this type of cultivation and have failed for over a decade at attempts to share substantial enough words to make others understand this type of process (western mage), however I am a witness to the practices of this type leading to the cultivation of a functional over soul.  

Edited April 16, 2023 by mrpasserby
clairty, spelling

[Antares]

6 hours ago, Blissdao9 said:

You are not looking at the bigger picture. Stillness is a quality of the overall system that allows for stability and balance.

 

I only respond to what you post here in this thread and share my thoughts with you and others. Yes, I agree with you that stillness is the key and I share my understanding about the root of where the stillness is born from. If you want to grow beautiful tree with strong stem first thing you need to learn how to plant it and how to cultivate it right. Also re: balance what is your understanding of it and where does it come from? Can you share your toughts on it? 

As for my personal experience I would not share it because it is too personal thing. You can consider me as a researcher of daoist cultivation methods.    

[Blissdao9]

6 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

I only respond to what you post here in this thread and share my thoughts with you and others. Yes, I agree with you that stillness is the key and I share my understanding about the root of where the stillness is born from. If you want to grow beautiful tree with strong stem first thing you need to learn how to plant it and how to cultivate it right. Also re: balance what is your understanding of it and where does it come from? Can you share your toughts on it? 

As for my personal experience I would not share it because it is too personal thing. You can consider me as a researcher of daoist cultivation methods.    

I respect your thoughts. It is that we cannot speak with utmost certainty, as words fail to express the nature of the natural laws. It may also do many injustice if we do not present our knowledge as accurately as possible despite the many flaws in our language; hence I stated to read with a grain of salt to filter all the nonsense.

 

My understanding comes from learning from gurus and personal cultivation. All of my knowledge comes from my cultivating experience, what works and does not work. In practice, I have faced numerous obstacles, whether they are physical, mental, or energetic, to which I had to find solutions for. Walking the wrong path will bring immense suffering to the point of madness, while walking the proper path will bring bliss and joy, so I am sensitive enough to determine the byproducts of my decisions.

 

At higher intensity levels, these obstacles likewise become more intense and require greater solutions, such as deeper levels of stillness or inclusivness, etc. I wish to help others unleash their potential and walk further on their paths, but I do not wish them greater unnecessary suffering.

[Antares]

16 minutes ago, Blissdao9 said:

My understanding comes from learning from gurus and personal cultivation. All of my knowledge comes from my cultivating experience, what works and does not work.

 

Alright, but as we are in daoist discussion thread I reflect over daoist methods of cultivation. As in a previous discussion I stressed the importance of no mixing approaches of different schools and methods. I mean in general it is incorrect to consider yogic and daoist methods as one common method of cultivation. They differ and should be mixed by no means. The Daoist method of cultivation is very narrow in terms of its precision, clarity, and sequence of stages. Any deviation from the rules leads to very undesirable consequences because the balance of yin and yang is a very delicate matter, as is the energy of the body as a whole

Edited April 16, 2023 by Antares

[Blissdao9]

5 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

Alright, but as we are in daoist discussion thread I reflect over daoist methods of cultivation. As in a previous discussion I stressed the importance of no mixing approaches of different schools and methods. I mean in general it is incorrect to consider yogic and daoist methods as one common method of cultivation. They differ and should be mixed by no means. The Daoist method of cultivation is very narrow in terms of its precision, clarity, and sequence of stages. Any deviation from the rules leads to very undesirable consequences because the balance of yin and yang is a very delicate matter, as is the energy of the body as a whole

Again, there is no method in the post. Only a discussion of the natural way. In the Dao, there is no distinction, yogic or daoist, as there are only the natural laws. Attempting to discuss the Dao with a limited mindset is already a step towards failure. 

You are not wrong that cultivation requires precision, clarity, and order. Indeed, if one deviates from the natural laws, one will experience potentially immense suffering. Hence, I would like to think that we are on the same page. But if my qualifications are not meeting your "daoist method," then I shall not post any further on this thread. 

I wish you all the best.

[Antares]

1 hour ago, Blissdao9 said:

Again, there is no method in the post. Only a discussion of the natural way. In the Dao, there is no distinction, yogic or daoist, as there are only the natural laws.

 

Incorrect. Even in re: DDJ there was specific method which is outlined inbetween words actually. There is no such thing as "one yogic, daoist, muslim...method ". More over it such posts mess up the daoist discussion branch of this forum.  

[Taoist Texts]

12 hours ago, Antares said:

Who is the doctor E.?

Dr. E. is an abbreviation for Doctor Eskildsen. He mistranslated the passage you quoted. Based on his incorrect translation you mistakenly claim that there is a '5 element method'. There is not. There is a '5 virtues method', which has nothing to do with neidan. I proved it in my previous post above. Therefore your misunderstanding of taoism  and neidan comes from a wrong translation by Dr. E.

 

Please (if you wish) let me know if I am clear enough for you to understand what i just said in this post. Thank you;)

[Antares]

13 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Dr. E. is an abbreviation for Doctor Eskildsen. He mistranslated the passage you quoted. Based on his incorrect translation you mistakenly claim that there is a '5 element method'.

How you think what is the root of the Virtue as such and whether it is possible to gain Virtue without specific daoist method? The Virtue has 2 parts - internal and external or in orher words preheaven and postheaven manifestations. In order to obtain preheaven Virtue one needs to cultivate it what implies a specific cultivation method. I even provided a reference to DZ in re: on this issue.

Please (if you wish) let me know if I am clear enough for you to understand what i just said in this post. Thank you;)

Edited April 16, 2023 by Antares

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

Please (if you wish) let me know if I am clear enough for you to understand what i just said in this post. Thank you;)

Yes i understand. Lets see if you do;)

3 hours ago, Antares said:

How you think what is the root of the Virtue as such and whether it is possible to gain Virtue without specific daoist method?

Your question has nothing to do with your quote from Wang Zhe. He talks about 五行  which Eskildsen  and you misunderstood as 5 elements. But Wang meant

Quote

five constant virtues of Confucianism, namely: benevolence 仁, righteousness 义, propriety 礼, wisdom 智 and fidelity 信
five cardinal relationships of Confucianism (between ruler and subject, father and son, husband and wife, brothers, friends)

Now your question is about a different chinese  word: the De  德  (singular) which is also translated as the virtue in english. You seem to be very confused on what the De is. Despite you changed the subject a couple of times from the original 'secret ming method in the beginning', i am happy to discuss your new topic of “先天德“

 

3 hours ago, Antares said:

In order to obtain preheaven Virtue one needs to cultivate it what implies a specific cultivation method.

it does not make sense by definition. Pre-heaven means something inborn independently of cultivation and existing before any cultivation. thats why it is called pre- (before)  先。

3 hours ago, Antares said:

I even provided a reference to DZ in re: on this issue.

 

If you did i did not see it. maybe you post it again?

 

Now lets see  what an authoritative author says about  "preheaven Virtue"  which in chinese would be “先天德“. Oh wait we can not. Because it is not widely used in those it seems. Do you have a quote for this exact term “先天德“ so we know that it is a real thing and not a modern fiction?

[Antares]

37 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Your question has nothing to do with your quote from Wang Zhe. He talks about 五行  which Eskildsen  and you misunderstood as 5 elements.

Not only Dr E. translates it as Five Elements. I have seen other researchers translating it as "5 agents".  So may be you translate it wrong... I have other researches translations on early Quanzhen methods and Wang Chongyang writings and they only confirm what I said. Nothing changes in general. I dont want to argue with you. Read my reference to DZ again. There everything is clearly stated, and your emotions are hindering you from understanding it

[Neirong]

On 30.03.2023 at 12:11 PM, Chang dao ling said:

How can a person meditate without a meditation method?

The method here is to spend 5-hours a day posting on facebook/reddit/forums to spread an online cult based on a delusion experienced by self-initiate person who confuses svadhistana and manipura, and has no clear goal or attainment in cultivation.

Self-initiation is dangerous, you might do a half-step and believe your a master, you have nothing to compare yourself with, no assessment model, no tests and exams.

[johndoe2012]

On 15.4.2023 at 8:43 AM, Antares said:

Again, you are describing the Northern path of meditations. It's worth keeping in mind that stillness and calmness are Yin. Cultivating only Yin can easily create an imbalance in energy. This way of cultivation can lead to excessive consumption of Yang Qi. It's a very common mistake made by many practitioners

 

So you need to do standing to cultivate Yang?