Right technique to lower the heart rate

[WujitoTao]

Hello Dear Dao People,

 

I remembered your forum as trying to find out the answer to the above question.

The fact is that i know this forum for quite a while know because i got into qi-gong like more than 10 years ago.  I studied it diligently (every single day) back then during more than 2 years.  Following the teaching from The Doctor Yang-Jwing Ming 's literature and DVDs.

I left the practice let's say due to better living conditions or not feeling the need as strong as before.

However , it turns out that today i have been diagnosed quite an annoying illness (hypertyroïdia) and i am thus coming back strongly to my loved practice in order to get back on the path of healing.

As my heartrate is getting higher due to this illness, i am getting down to meditation and breathing exercices. (slow abnominal breathing for instance)

I found on the internet that the best way to lower the heart rate is to exhale longer than inhaling. On Youtube everyone is saying like taking a 4sec inhale and having a 8 sec exhale for example.

I found also this article on the web:

https://jingselfcare.com/articles/deep-slow-breathing

They say that exhaling is enhancing PSNS (parasympathetic nervous system) and Inhaling is enhancing SNS (sympathetic nervous system).

In other words,they also say that when Inhaling , heart rate speeds up and when exhaling heart rate slows down. Which suits what they say on youtube. We then can say that Inhaling is Yang according to their satement and that Exhaling is Yin.

 

But when i look back in my litterature, Dr Yang Jwing Ming says that Inhaling is Yin (Water Qi) and that Exhaling is Yang (Fire Qi)...

 

How come that there's such a contradiction ?

 

As far as i know, i don't remember Qi-gong focussing specifically on lowering the heart rate. I think that it is said that it comes when breathing is slow and deep, and that inhale and exhale are getting longer and longer.

But why isn't there the other piece information that is given about exahlation being longer than inhalation ?

 

When it comes to my own experience, i know that my heart rate reduces at once but just for a few seconds, when i perform a full breath (unlocking the breath that goes to the abdomen). So in fact, it happens on an inhale and not on an exhale.

 

What is your opinion, experience and/or conclusions about that matter?  Is there something i didn't get ?

 

Thank you for your interest and sharing,

Newcomer

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by WujitoTao

[ilumairen]

Welcome @WujitoTao

[Chang dao ling]

Welcome. Talk to infolad1 and privately message him

[WujitoTao]

4 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Welcome. Talk to infolad1 and privately message him

Hi,  thank you for your answer, who is infolad ? Maybe we can just share here, because it can also be interesting to others ?

Edited April 2, 2023 by WujitoTao

[Chang dao ling]

2 minutes ago, WujitoTao said:

Hi,  thank you for your answer, who is infolad ? Maybe we can just share here, because it can also be interesting to others ?

Hi, he ( infolad1) practiced Qigong 20+ years. He also give me instructions in LDT meditation. So i think he can give you better advice to your problem 

[Lairg]

12 hours ago, WujitoTao said:

As my heartrate is getting higher due to this illness, i am getting down to meditation and breathing exercices.

 

Is it better to deal with symptoms or causes?

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Lairg

[WujitoTao]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

Is it better to deal with symptoms or causes?

 

 

 

If you ask my endocrinologist (so called "specialist" here in france), she will say that it's almost impossible to know the causes..  this is an auto-immune illness so that's it.. 

when i ask her about Covid (which i had quite often..) or even 5G,...   it's like i am from another planet..   We shouldn't even talk about Covid now;. .. it has completely disapeared like a magic and it of course shouldn't have influences or consequences...  Anyway.

 

Regardless of the causes, I personally think that i should get back on strenghtening my immune system personnaly and internally. What 's better than qi-gong or internal/energetic exercices in order to to it ?

 

But you 're right i should keep on trying to figure out what are the causes. (i think it is due to Covid personnally)

I also focuss on phytotherapy which i believe to be better , smoother than chimical pills brought by health Industry .

Edited April 2, 2023 by WujitoTao

[Lairg]

Not all causes are physical.  Consider the vibrating palm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_of_Death

[WujitoTao]

11 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Not all causes are physical.  Consider the vibrating palm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_of_Death

?

[Infolad1]

18 hours ago, WujitoTao said:

Hello Dear Dao People,

 

I remembered your forum as trying to find out the answer to the above question.

The fact is that i know this forum for quite a while know because i got into qi-gong like more than 10 years ago.  I studied it diligently (every single day) back then during more than 2 years.  Following the teaching from The Doctor Yang-Jwing Ming 's literature and DVDs.

I left the practice let's say due to better living conditions or not feeling the need as strong as before.

However , it turns out that today i have been diagnosed quite an annoying illness (hypertyroïdia) and i am thus coming back strongly to my loved practice in order to get back on the path of healing.

As my heartrate is getting higher due to this illness, i am getting down to meditation and breathing exercices. (slow abnominal breathing for instance)

I found on the internet that the best way to lower the heart rate is to exhale longer than inhaling. On Youtube everyone is saying like taking a 4sec inhale and having a 8 sec exhale for example.

I found also this article on the web:

https://jingselfcare.com/articles/deep-slow-breathing

They say that exhaling is enhancing PSNS (parasympathetic nervous system) and Inhaling is enhancing SNS (sympathetic nervous system).

In other words,they also say that when Inhaling , heart rate speeds up and when exhaling heart rate slows down. Which suits what they say on youtube. We then can say that Inhaling is Yang according to their satement and that Exhaling is Yin.

 

But when i look back in my litterature, Dr Yang Jwing Ming says that Inhaling is Yin (Water Qi) and that Exhaling is Yang (Fire Qi)...

 

How come that there's such a contradiction ?

 

As far as i know, i don't remember Qi-gong focussing specifically on lowering the heart rate. I think that it is said that it comes when breathing is slow and deep, and that inhale and exhale are getting longer and longer.

But why isn't there the other piece information that is given about exahlation being longer than inhalation ?

 

When it comes to my own experience, i know that my heart rate reduces at once but just for a few seconds, when i perform a full breath (unlocking the breath that goes to the abdomen). So in fact, it happens on an inhale and not on an exhale.

 

What is your opinion, experience and/or conclusions about that matter?  Is there something i didn't get ?

 

Thank you for your interest and sharing,

Newcomer

 

 

 

 

WujitoTao,

 

They're both right. It depends on how you look at it.

 

You inhale, that's yin. Yin is centripetal and contractive. You exhale, that's yang. Yang is centrifugal and expansive.

 

But the belly expands slightly as you inhale, which is Yang, and contracts when you exhale, which is Yin.

 

So it depends on how you look at it.

 

You can't accurately measure your heart rate yourself. When you focus on it, it slows down. you have to use a measurement device, like a Fitbit, to get an estimate.

 

Your heart rate slows on the exhale. It activates the parasympathetic division of the nervous system through the vagus nerve.

 

Vibrating the palm is physical. Any thing that isn't the absolute is physical, most of which we can't perceive in a normal state.

 

But that has nothing to do with this discussion. That's for The Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique thread. 

 

I hope this helped. Cheers!

[WujitoTao]

2 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

 

WujitoTao,

 

They're both right. It depends on how you look at it.

 

You inhale, that's yin. Yin is centripetal and contractive. You exhale, that's yang. Yang is centrifugal and expansive.

 

But the belly expands slightly as you inhale, which is Yang, and contracts when you exhale, which is Yin.

 

So it depends on how you look at it.

 

You can't accurately measure your heart rate yourself. When you focus on it, it slows down. you have to use a measurement device, like a Fitbit, to get an estimate.

 

Your heart rate slows on the exhale. It activates the parasympathetic division of the nervous system through the vagus nerve.

 

Vibrating the palm is physical. Any thing that isn't the absolute is physical, most of which we can't perceive in a normal state.

 

But that has nothing to do with this discussion. That's for The Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique thread. 

 

I hope this helped. Cheers!

 

Thank you for your answer Infolad,

 

There's also this interesting quote from the page link i pasted above:

 

Equally, while a deep, vigorous in-breath will strongly stimulate the SNS, if we make our inhalation long, slow, quiet and deep (to the lower abdomen) we moderate this with PSNS activation (yin within yang). And while a slow, releasing exhalation will strongly stimulate the PSNS, if we exhale more vigorously and noisily, for example when lifting a weight or making a martial strike, then we increase SNS within PSNS (yang within yin).

 

When i focuss on my heart, it speeds up  Lol..  it depends i guess also of the state of mind.

 

What would be your best technique/procedure to slow your heart rate at will ?  As you mentionned that the heartrate slows on the exhale, i assume that you would do with longer exhale than inhale?

i focuss on this because i'm also interested in that field of reducing heartrate and oxygen consumption as i like to freedive when i'm in holidays at the sea..  ahah

This guy made me thought about that exhaling longer than inhaling : (he can breath hold like more than 9 minutes)

 

I didn't get what is the matther with that thing called "Vibrating the palm", what's that ?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Infolad1]

WujitoTao,

 

Please do not attempt to control your heart rate. That's very advanced and very dangerous

if you don't know what you're doing, for obvious reasons. The Intelligence that runs our body

knows what it's doing, we don't.

 

Breath holds are also VERY dangerous without proper training and guidance. Your body has to

build a tolerance to higher levels of carbon dioxide to do that. This is what freedivers do. This takes years of

practice under a teacher and with a support structure on hand so that someone's there if things go wrong.

 

You have to know and practice using static apnea charts so that

you don't irreversibly damage your breathing. Ideally, you should have a way of monitoring your body's

carbon dioxide levels, so you don't run into problems.

 

Stick to simple diaphragmatic breathing for a year. Then you can learn from the Breathing Center

about Buteyko Breathing, which involves breath holds.

 

Do NOT play around with these practices. Cheers!

[Infolad1]

WujitoTao,

 

If your heart speeds up when you focus on it, then you need to learn to relax.

 

Stop focusing on your heart. Focus four finger widths below the navel, at the center of the torso.

 

Sit cross-legged on a meditation pillow or upright in a sturdy chair, palms on thighs. Eyes 90% closed. Breathe from your lower diaphragm, as if breathing into your lower stomach. Your lower abdomen comes out slightly and down, as you inhale and gently contracts as you exhale. Your shoulders and rib cage are relaxed and don't move. The tip of your tongue is gently resting on your upper palate, right above your upper back row of teeth.

 

You're gently breathing in and out. No force is used. Your eyes are looking straight ahead, five miles off into the distance. Any tension in the face, then just put a slight smile on your face.

 

Focus on your lower abdomen, four finger widths below the navel, at the center of your torso. Just keep your attention there, as you softly breathe in and out. You mentally say to your self "breath In", as you breathe In, and "breath out", as you breathe out. After a while, the mental chanting fades away. You become one with the breath. In later stages, you "zero out", just aware of being aware.

 

Doing all of the above activates the vagus nerve, which helps you to calm down and relax.

 

Start with 10 to 15 minutes, working your way up to an hour over six months. Practice twice a day after twelve months. You should have built up your LDT energy by then, feeling warmth emanating from it, in addition to other effects.

 

Moderate your leaking (ejaculating) or else it'll take longer to make progress.

 

Your stomach should be mostly empty, so 1 to 2 hours after a meal.

 

Do not practice for a day or two after having sex, especially if you're over 35. Do not practice during bad weather, especially lightning storms.

 

Stick to these basics. PRACTICE! Theory means nothing if you don't apply it. People want to talk forever about different techniques instead of putting in the work. No good.

 

As Yoda told Luke In "The Empire Strikes Back": "All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm?"

 

I hope this helps. Cheers!

[Infolad1]

12 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Is it better to deal with symptoms or causes?

 

 

Hi, Lairg,

 

Great Insight. you've got to get to the cause.

 

Cheers!

[Infolad1]

WujitoTao,

 

If you're dealing with hyperthyroidism, you've got to deal with the cause.

 

Are you taking medication? It might be necessary until you get a handle on what's happening.

 

I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Show the following to your Primary Care Physician:

 

What You Must Know About Thyroid Disorders and What to Do About Them: Your Guide to Treating Autoimmune Dysfunction, Hypo- and Hyperthyroidism, Mood ... Loss, Weight Issues, Heart Problems and More

https://www.amazon.com/What-Must-About-Thyroid-Disorders/dp/0757004245/ref=sr_1_23?crid=1FBB62SGKZ9BL&keywords=hyperthyroidism+book&qid=1680470679&sprefix=hyperthyroidism%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-23

 

You may also want to check out SelfDecode:

https://selfdecode.com/?nab=1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F

 

You need to find out from medical professionals what's actually going on inside your vehicle.

ESPECIALLY when it comes to the thyroid. Once you have assessments done, THEN you can 

make informed choices. 

 

Cheers!

[Lairg]

Not all causes are physical - hence physical medicine is not always the best path.

 

The other day I was speaking to a woman I know well.  She has been swollen in the belly for years.  Recently a couple of strange things happened so I had a look at her situation.

 

It seemed to me that she had had a miscarriage so I asked her.  She denied that, so I said: between your first and second son.

 

She remembered that she had certainly felt pregnant then but the tests were negative and there was no child. 

 

I pointed out the dark cloud in her uterus and the energy line going from there to her left hip.  She could see those.   Then she could see the personality that had wanted to be born.  It was still there at her left hip and her body was trying to get ready.

 

She sent the personality away and the swelling in her belly is starting to reduce.

 

Not all causes are physical

 

 

 

[Infolad1]

4 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Not all causes are physical - hence physical medicine is not always the best path.

 

The other day I was speaking to a woman I know well.  She has been swollen in the belly for years.  Recently a couple of strange things happened so I had a look at her situation.

 

It seemed to me that she had had a miscarriage so I asked her.  She denied that, so I said: between your first and second son.

 

She remembered that she had certainly felt pregnant then but the tests were negative and there was no child. 

 

I pointed out the dark cloud in her uterus and the energy line going from there to her left hip.  She could see those.   Then she could see the personality that had wanted to be born.  It was still there at her left hip and her body was trying to get ready.

 

She sent the personality away and the swelling in her belly is starting to reduce.

 

Not all causes are physical

 

 

 

Hi, Lairg,

 

A cause is an effect, which is "physical".

 

I know what you're trying to say, but you're talking about phenomena, which are things.

 

A persona is physical. That's the noumenal aka mental realm. 

 

The realm of molecules, atoms, quanta, etc., is the phenomenal realm.

 

The realm above that is the mental realm. Thoughts, Images, personas aka personalities, Psychoid Archetypes, etc.

 

Above that is the Absolute. Consciousness aware of Its Consciousness.

 

People have more complicated versions of the above model, but that's the basic version.

 

Thoughts are things. Images are things.

 

Energy/Qi is Information. Knowledge put "Into Form".

 

Persona/Person/Personality - Etymology:

 

https://www.etymonline.com/word/persona

 

Person
c. 1200, persoun, "an individual, a human being," from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay, covering the whole head, worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." De Vaan has no entry for it.

From mid-13c. as "one of the persons of the Trinity," a theological use in Church Latin of the classical word. Meanings "one's physical being, the living body" and "external appearance" are from late 14c. In grammar, "one of the relations which a subject may have to a verb," from 1510s. In legal use, "corporate body or corporation other than the state and having rights and duties before the law," 15c., short for person aggregate (c. 1400), person corporate (mid-15c.).

 

cause (v.)
late 14c., "produce an effect," also "impel, compel," from Old French causer "to cause" (13c.) and directly from Medieval Latin causare, from Latin causa "a cause; a reason; interest; judicial process, lawsuit," which is of unknown origin. Related: Caused; causing. Classical Latin causari meant "to plead, to debate a question."

 

Now with all of the above said...

 

...It's all Maya, a virtual reality.

 

So phenomena, noumena, all things...Come from No Thing.

 

No Thing created Itself, then created everything else.

 

So when you keep saying that some causes are not physical, the only one that's not physical is

No Thing aka Consciousness, Original Nature, etc.

 

Everything else is physical, but most at levels of subtlety that we can't perceive without "upgrades". Like thoughts,

Images, etc.

 

This is the paradox.

 

So you're not correct, but you are correct. Because all form is empty. Virtual. But there's no woman with a swollen belly

for you to help without It.

 

It's all part of the game, the story, the dream. 

 

Cheers!

[Lairg]

7 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

all form is empty.

 

And here was I thinking that Life Force (Divine Light) extended through the densest mind or body

[Chang dao ling]

9 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

Do not practice for a day or two after having sex,

What about Wet dreams and involuntary emissions?

[WujitoTao]

17 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

WujitoTao,

 

Please do not attempt to control your heart rate. That's very advanced and very dangerous

if you don't know what you're doing, for obvious reasons. The Intelligence that runs our body

knows what it's doing, we don't.

 

Breath holds are also VERY dangerous without proper training and guidance. Your body has to

build a tolerance to higher levels of carbon dioxide to do that. This is what freedivers do. This takes years of

practice under a teacher and with a support structure on hand so that someone's there if things go wrong.

 

You have to know and practice using static apnea charts so that

you don't irreversibly damage your breathing. Ideally, you should have a way of monitoring your body's

carbon dioxide levels, so you don't run into problems.

 

Stick to simple diaphragmatic breathing for a year. Then you can learn from the Breathing Center

about Buteyko Breathing, which involves breath holds.

 

Do NOT play around with these practices. Cheers!

 

Hmm..

 

When i used to have advanced practice of Qi-gong, i used to have really deep breathing and also breathhold (like 2 to 3mn breathhold).  At that time, i remember that my heartrate was droping and had a really soft, steady and slow heartbeat.

 

I don't see that as a really advanced practice,  Every serious qi-gong (or pretends to be) practicionner should be able to get into a state af deep relaxation with a very slow heartbeat.

 

I know what you mean about freediving  ( we must have a buddy and so on).  the fact is that you do not always have a buddy that can follow you 10meters deep..   i only practice it occasionnally and am really aware of all the things to know , don't worry. 

 

Regarding, hypertyhroïdia,  my so-called "specialist" cannot give me the causes of it,  it is auto-immune  and that's it...  she also doesn't know about phytotherapy at all and when i said to her that i stopped the pills and was taking Lycupus Europeaus, she asked me what is that thing ??   Can you imagine ? A specialist that even doesn't know about the first herb that is acting against hyperthyroïdia !...   AT first  i already haven't had a strong confidence in conventional medecine, but now,...  

I think i'll search another doctor..

 

Thanks for you replies,  much appreciated, will read the others throuhgout the day,

Have a Good day

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by WujitoTao

[WujitoTao]

16 hours ago, Lairg said:

Not all causes are physical - hence physical medicine is not always the best path.

 

The other day I was speaking to a woman I know well.  She has been swollen in the belly for years.  Recently a couple of strange things happened so I had a look at her situation.

 

It seemed to me that she had had a miscarriage so I asked her.  She denied that, so I said: between your first and second son.

 

She remembered that she had certainly felt pregnant then but the tests were negative and there was no child. 

 

I pointed out the dark cloud in her uterus and the energy line going from there to her left hip.  She could see those.   Then she could see the personality that had wanted to be born.  It was still there at her left hip and her body was trying to get ready.

 

She sent the personality away and the swelling in her belly is starting to reduce.

 

Not all causes are physical

 

 

 

 

Yes , in my case, that can be stress or angryness..   idon't see food with endocrins disruptors, as we (with my family) are really carefull about the quality of food we eat.

But i 'm also really suspicious about COVID..  because i know that i caught it several times,  and we shouldn't be wary about it....  it's like an elephant in the room  and nobody 's lookign at it!...

 

Anyway, you're right about non physical causes and i still believe angryness or irritability, can be a cause.  Hypertyroïdia is driving people irritable  but maybe it's irritability that caused hypertyroïdia in the first place, and hyperthyroïdia only makes it even worse.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by WujitoTao

[WujitoTao]

7 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

What about Wet dreams and involuntary emissions?

Depends on your age i guess,  you can control it easily though.  (the pc muscle technique)

 

Besides, i don't really see the reasons why one should'nt do qi-gong after having sex..

I always have been aware of the energetic depletion caused by ejaculation though,..

but why is it like forbidden to practice breathing exercices or 8 pieces of brocades?...  i don't see any contraindications. 

Maybe it's for really advanced practicionners that needs to feel the Qi , to perform a microcosmic orbit or to project QI? maybe they cannot feel it after having sex ? lol.. i don't know

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by WujitoTao

[Lairg]

7 hours ago, WujitoTao said:

you're right about non physical causes

 

Next time you are meditating you could look inwardly at your throat and perhaps find an energy issue

 

 

[liminal_luke]

Not a medical practitioner here, but for autoimmune issues you might research an elimination diet called the Autoimmune Protocol.  Lots of people with hashimotos (an autoimmune thyroid condition) have helped themselves with this diet, though of course no one approach works for everybody.  

[Infolad1]

11 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

And here was I thinking that Life Force (Divine Light) extended through the densest mind or body

Hi, Lairg,

 

The problem is that people are not using words precisely, which leads to a LOT of misunderstandings.

 

The other problem is people using different words for the same thing, due to culture, dogma, misunderstanding, etc.

 

It's all a matter of perspective and perception.

 

Everything is Information, "The Word", "The Developer's Code of The Matrix/Maya", which becomes, light, sound, etc.

 

Think of all of this like a AAA videogame. The code creates a completely realistic world, and it's real to the game characters.

But at the fundamental level, it doesn't actually exist.

 

Doesn't stop us from having fun playing the game, though. 

 

Life Force aka Qi/Ra/Nephesh, etc. is part of the phenomenal realm.

 

EVERYTHING is composed of light. Molecules, sub-atomic particles, all of it. Reality is a hologram of frozen light. That light is an information carrier. The active version of No Thing. A wavicle.

 

So every thing is composed of Divine Light.

 

Things vibrate at various wavelengths and amplitudes, which is where you're density reference comes in.

 

But we must always keep in mind that density, wave, particle, etc. are just parts of the rule set of the game. Every game has a physics engine, a rendering engine, etc.

 

This is all virtual. All of it.

 

virtual
vûr′choo͞-əl
adjective

 

1. Existing or resulting in essence or effect though not in actual fact, form, or name.
    
2. Existing in the mind, especially as a product of the imagination. Used in literary criticism of a text.
   (Important Note: The Western paradigm considers things of the mind and Imagination to be subjective, with no actual reality. that only the world of gross physical matter is real. This is false. The subjective realm of Consciousness/Will creates the objective realm).
    
3. Created, simulated, or carried on by means of a computer or computer network. (note: or Consciousness)

simulate
verb
sim·u·late ˈsim-yə-ˌlāt 
simulated; simulating
Synonyms of simulate
transitive verb

1.  to give or assume the appearance or effect of often with the intent to deceive: IMITATE
    
2. to make a simulation of (something, such as a physical system)
    

Synonyms for simulate that pertain to this discussion:

• act
• pretend
• pass (for)
• mask
• disguise
• conceal
• playact

So the mind is virtual. The body is virtual.

What do the Yogic, Buddhist, Chan and later Zen masters tell their students constantly?

 

"All things are empty of intrinsic existence and nature". 

 

Cheers!