Does meditating on the Dan Tian build up the Qi there?

[Taoist Texts]

20 hours ago, CyrusTheGreat said:

Smart people learn from other people's mistakes.

oh about that...you see there is a certain kind of people who ask questions but do not listen to the answers and do not do what they are told to do. they are the smartest of all.

[Nahfets]

On 14.6.2023 at 6:53 AM, CyrusTheGreat said:

Thanks for the answer, but I thought that you first need to fill the real LDT to even conduct the MCO in the first place, no?

Depends of what you describe as MCO. They also use the hands to guide qi through the MCO in Qigong practices to help clear the meridians in the Du and Ren channels. Later you can circulate, heat, vibration and yin qi but it doesn't exclude you from practicing and clearing it even though you haven't achieved these levels. It would be the same as saying you can't flex your perineum until yang qi activates the positive principle and you get an erection. Both are doable and benefitial in certain exercises. 

[EFreethought]

On 5/7/2023 at 8:41 AM, CyrusTheGreat said:

If I meditate on the Real Lower Dan Tian during regular sitting meditation, will that build up and store Qi there? Is that an effective approach to filling the Real Lower Dan Tian?

 

If you are taking advice from random people on the internet: Why not meditate on LDT?

 

Robert Peng started out by meditating on LDT in horse stance. And now he is a big deal.

 

You might not get as far as you would with a teacher, but you probably won't hurt yourself either. It seems like most of the stories of people going crazy from meditation are people who have never meditated going to a Goenka Vipassana retreat and going from 0 to 8 hours, too much too soon.

 

 

 

[CyrusTheGreat]

17 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Find a teacher who can teach you these practices properly, don’t learn from reading random people’s text online.

This is easier said than done. My question was also not a complicated or advanced one.

[CyrusTheGreat]

2 hours ago, EFreethought said:

 

If you are taking advice from random people on the internet: Why not meditate on LDT?

I hoped the advice would come with a source or explanation so I could be sure it is valid.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

59 minutes ago, CyrusTheGreat said:

This is easier said than done. My question was also not a complicated or advanced one.

I and many others managed to do it, why can’t you? I’m not going to reveal teachings, you have to learn the proper way. 

[CyrusTheGreat]

58 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I and many others managed to do it, why can’t you? I’m not going to reveal teachings, you have to learn the proper way. 

Why is one way "proper" and the other way isn't?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 hours ago, CyrusTheGreat said:

Why is one way "proper" and the other way isn't?

Because one can actually get you results, the other way will at best just waste your time and at worst do damage to your body or mind.

 

I’m not trying to discourage you or hide anything from you, I just don’t want to see people hurt themselves by trying out random practices that they see online. 

[jmrout]

15 hours ago, CyrusTheGreat said:

This is easier said than done. My question was also not a complicated or advanced one.

It seems that Nathan Brine, Rudi of Authentic Neigong, and Damo Mitchell all promise to teach anyone this process of building the Lower Dantian, and in each case it involves more than merely focusing awareness on the area. I'm curious about this topic myself, since my background is Tibetan Vajrayana and the Six Yogas of Naropa, and I'd love to make a comparative study of that process with these Daoist methods and models. In tummo yoga, the process that seems closest is 'gathering the winds in the central channel' at an area below the navel - this sounds comparable to what the Daoist Neigong people are talking about. But is it even relevant, or something else entirely? I don't know yet. But here again, whether or not it's a related or similar process, it involves much more than simply focusing awareness on the navel area. 

Regards

[Nahfets]

Proper wuji stands and practicing the right bandhas (muscle-locks) meditation with focus points are crucial for LDT to develop. It will come if you meditate a lot but there are shortcuts to improve flow of qi and accumulation of it also. A good Qigong daily practice will help you clear blockages too and purify your energetiv system. I can recommend this guy and his taoist Qigong set (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QYngRrbsKo&list=LL&index=51&t=1117s) See his video explaining Wuji also. It is recommended by me at least to using quickfire or breath of fire every Day as it is very effective and can even be parred with horsestands this is very potent so don't do these practices if you're sexually active wait 5 Days minimum before and after orgasm. 

A book I can recommen is Taoist Internal Alchemy, Neigong And Weigong Training it describes a lot of the exercises and purification and circulation techniques used to build a LDT. The Qigong set from the video is also explained in detail in the late pages of the book and can be helpful to read through as well but in general he explains a lot more in there than usual in Qigong videos so it is helpful in getting the exercises right. MCO meditation is also very benefital at clearing and activating the micro cosmic orbit and the book describes many techniques as how to facilitate this. 

Doing breathwork techniques is also a great way of releasing tension, waking up the body and scanning for blockages with breathholds after or in between the sets. 

A trick when doing breathwork is to focus on relaxing your perineum/prostate while at the same time focusing on the energy at the fengfu point opposite in the back of the head from the jingtang(third eye) If done with with a slight tilted perineum holding the dual point in between your relaxed prostate/fengfu will quickly achieve vibrations that otherwise can take some time achieving in breathwork sessions and you will want them to start and eminate from the LDT and move up to the middle burner and so forth. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Nahfets

[Vajra Fist]

I mean, it's not strictly daoist, but hara breathing is said to lead to tanden development in rinzai zen.

 

https://zenembodiment.com/2018/06/08/breathing-from-the-belly-tanden-a-great-rolling-ball/

[Master Logray]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:41 PM, CyrusTheGreat said:

If I meditate on the Real Lower Dan Tian during regular sitting meditation, will that build up and store Qi there? Is that an effective approach to filling the Real Lower Dan Tian?

 

Yes.  Effectiveness, depends on a lot of factors.

[jmrout]

I would like to mention this wonderful course from Meido Moore, in which he makes public an oral Rinzai Zen tradition of Dantian development, deriving from 18th century Zen master Hakuin; a tradition Hakuin seems to have learned from a Daoist cave-dwelling hermit Hakuyu, when Hakuin sought to cure his 'meditation sickness.'
https://www.inner-craft.com/courses/embodied-zen/
'The crucial breathing method of Zen, and a foundation of the Rinzai path, is called Tanden Soku: breathing to the navel energy center. In this lesson, Meido Roshi instructs in great detail the basics of Tanden Soku. This will serve as a foundation practice for more advanced Tanden Soku exercises of increasing the dynamic quality of the inhalation and exhalation that will be covered in the next lesson...
 

The great Rinzai Zen master Hakuin instructed a number of practices for the dissolving of psycho-physical obstructions and the attainment of bodily wisdom. One of these is Naikan No Ho, the “introspection method” that powerfully deepens Tanden Soku. Though Hakuin describes this method generally in various texts, the oral instruction necessary to actually practice it is not often taught publicly. Meido Roshi here does so, opening up this dynamic energetic cultivation method for those who are ready to use it.

8. Hara Tanren: Forging the Center

Another class of internal energetic cultivation practices is called Hara Tanren, methods of “forging” the lower abdominal area that is the seat of the navel energy center, of correct breathing, and of the body’s vital power. Meido Roshi will instruct three methods of practicing Hara Tanren over the series of three lessons.'

 

I would note you try this course free.
'

Edited June 18, 2023 by jmrout

[jmrout]

I would also commend and thank our Dao brother, or Daoist Youth Pastor @Taoist Texts, for denouncing all the frauds and grifters. I suspect he was a defrauded student of Alchemy in a past life, and thus has returned to constantly remind us of the profiteers. His skepticism is good medicine. Thank you!

[Wilhelm]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:38 AM, jmrout said:

It seems that Nathan Brine, Rudi of Authentic Neigong, and Damo Mitchell all promise to teach anyone this process of building the Lower Dantian, and in each case it involves more than merely focusing awareness on the area. I'm curious about this topic myself, since my background is Tibetan Vajrayana and the Six Yogas of Naropa, and I'd love to make a comparative study of that process with these Daoist methods and models. In tummo yoga, the process that seems closest is 'gathering the winds in the central channel' at an area below the navel - this sounds comparable to what the Daoist Neigong people are talking about. But is it even relevant, or something else entirely? I don't know yet. But here again, whether or not it's a related or similar process, it involves much more than simply focusing awareness on the navel area. 

Regards

If you hadn't seen it yet, one of the fellas you mentioned did a talk in Bhutan comparing the two

 

 

 

Yes his method is obviously more involved than sustained attention on the lower abdominal space.  The talk spoke specifically about the alchemical process, but his method involves doing quite a bit of foundation work in the area before attempting to 'ignite the fire' in that area.

 

On a podcast of his, a varajyana practitioner guest gave a criticism of the way tummo is commonly taught that ignited a debate on the forum.  I'll look for the link.

 

Edit: Here it is

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Wilhelm