We live by concepts

[Apech]

Quote

 

How do we find inner peace? How do we learn to overcome inner conflict? What is the guiding principle of our lives? Bodhipaksa takes a saying by the 19th century Danish theologian and philosopher, Kierkegaard, and looks at the Buddhist perspective on “willing one thing.”

 

“Purity of heart is to will one thing.”
– Søren Kierkegaard

 

This saying by Kierkegaard, the 19th century Danish theologian and philosopher, suggests that a mind divided is a mind unable to be at peace with itself. When we desire contradictory ends there is no chance for the mind to find harmony; always there is inner strife, conflict, and confusion. When the mind pulls in two directions at once we inevitably suffer; we are forever restless, dissatisfied, and second-guessing ourselves.

 

 

https://www.wildmind.org/blogs/quote-of-the-month/kierkegaard-purity-of-heart

 

 

This, I think, is talking about 'one pointedness'.

 

 

[Apech]

The Four Yogas of Mahamudra:

 

Four yogas (Tib. རྣལ་འབྱོར་བཞི་, naljor shyi, Wyl. rnal 'byor bzhi) — four stages of attainment in the meditation practice of Mahamudra.

1. one-pointedness (Tib. རྩེ་གཅིག་, tsé chik, Wyl. rtse gcig), which establishes the state of shamatha
2. simplicity (Tib. སྤྲོས་བྲལ་, trödral, Wyl. spros bral), which is reached through the clear seeing of vipashyana
3. one taste (Tib. རོ་གཅིག་, ro chik, Wyl. ro gcig), when shamatha and vipashyana become one
4. non-meditation (Tib. སྒོམ་མེད་, gom mé. Wyl. sgom med) is reached when one goes beyond the mind, and beyond the concept of a meditator meditating, the level of Dzogchen.

 

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_yogas

 

 

[old3bob]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

 

https://www.wildmind.org/blogs/quote-of-the-month/kierkegaard-purity-of-heart

 

 

This, I think, is talking about 'one pointedness'.

 

 

 

I'd say with the mind being inherently dualistic it can never really find peace in itself, but if Spirit becomes its master then it will know its rightful place as servant to spirit and have peace in that sense.  (which to me more or less parallels #4 in the quote above)

Edited June 23, 2023 by old3bob

[Mark Foote]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:37 PM, Apech said:

 

From what I understand 'one pointedness' when used in the context of mahamudra does not mean concentration as this would be an effort or activity of the mind.  What I understand it to mean is wholeness or unity in awareness, such that whatever seems to arise or not arise the awareness remains constant - it is one of the mahamudra stages - to say more I would have to look it up and as I may have mentioned I have become lazy ...

 

@Mark Foote

 

Again I think the quote from Tilopa is talking about non-meditation.  So if from the beginning we think we are going to meditate - which suggests doing something - a path of action - this is not it.  Putting effort in at 'advanced' stages obscures the realisation of naked awareness.  There is of course a huge paradox in this because although we pursue dharma (as path) through improvement - when it comes to pristine or naked awareness there is no improvement - in fact any effort we make will mess it up.  Something very subtle happens about letting go or allowing....

 

 

Okay… So, have your hands in the cosmic mudra, palms up, thumbs touching, and there’s this common instruction: place your mind here. Different people interpret this differently. Some people will say this means to place your attention here, meaning to keep your attention on your hands. It’s a way of turning the lens to where you are in space so that you’re not looking out here and out here and out here. It’s the positive version, perhaps, of ‘navel gazing’.

The other way to understand this is to literally place your mind where your hands are–to relocate mind (let’s not say your mind) to your centre of gravity, so that mind is operating from a place other than your brain. Some traditions take this very seriously, this idea of moving your consciousness around the body. I wouldn’t recommend dedicating your life to it, but as an experiment, I recommend trying it, sitting in this posture and trying to feel what it’s like to let your mind, to let the base of your consciousness, move away from your head. One thing you’ll find, or that I have found, at least, is that you can’t will it to happen, because you’re willing it from your head. To the extent that you can do it, it’s an act of letting go–and a fascinating one. 

 

(“No Struggle [Zazen Yojinki, Part 6]”, by koun Franz, from the “Nyoho Zen” site
https://nyoho.com/2018/09/15/no-struggle-zazen-yojinki-part-6/)

 

 

That's from a lecture koun Franz gave.  I think it's an excellent description of "one-pointedness of mind", but so also is your description, Apech:

 

"... wholeness or unity in awareness, such that whatever seems to arise or not arise the awareness remains constant..."

 

A distinction, perhaps:  Franz is pointing to a singularity of mind, to a mind that can move around in the body without losing singularity. 

A friend of mine rejects outright that the "... wholeness or unity in awareness, such that whatever seems to arise or not arise the awareness remains constant..." could have location.  

In my experience, it's possible for a sense of the location of awareness to make activity in the movement of breath automatic, provided that the location of awareness can move freely. 

However, attention directed to the movement of breath, rather than to the location of awareness in the movement of breath, can sometimes interfere:
 

You must strive with all your energy to bite through here and cut off conditioned habits of mind. Be like a person who has died the great death: after your breath is cut off, then you come back to life. Only then do you realize that it is as open as empty space. Only then do you reach the point where your feet are walking on the ground of reality.

(“Zen Letters: Teachings of Yuanwu”, translated by J.C. and Thomas Cleary, p 83-84)

 

 

Gautama said that the "excellence of the heart's release" through the extension of compassion, sympathy, and equanimity throughout the four quarters of the world constituted the first, second and third of the further states.  At some point, the inclusion of what lies beyond the boundaries of the senses is necessary to one-pointedness of mind. 

 

A naked awareness must at some moment incorporate contact in the senses, and contact with what lies behind the boundaries of the senses as well.  That this can happen in stages, I think is the source of the confusion--because, of course, it can also happen all at once, right now. 

 

The teaching of stages is always going to be tricky ("by lack of desire, by means of lack of desire", the concentrations characterized by "one-pointedness of mind" are attained, per Gautama).
 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:58 PM, Lairg said:

 

Is the one point inside or outside the human?

 

Olaf Blanke would say, inside, unless the innate coordination of the senses of equalibrioception, graviception, proprioception, and occuloception has been damaged.

Look at that, he's been researching the relationship between sense of self and breathing:

https://hal.science/hal-03583057/document

I was just posting, in response to Apech, that at some point what lies beyond the boundaries of the senses must be incorporated into the location of one-pointedness, in order for the experience of one-pointedness to continue.  

It was a thing I loved about the soft-slam dancing at Mabuhay Gardens, back when--bodies flying everywhere, nobody getting hurt but entirely necessary to incorporate what lies beyond the immediate senses into the point of awareness, the point of awareness that moves the body without thought.  Not outside, but responsive to the unseen, by inclusion.

[Lairg]

16 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

Blanke would say, inside,

 

So a critical issue is finding where inside the human the one point is concentrated 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Lairg

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Mark Foote said:

Olaf Blanke would say, inside, unless the innate coordination of the senses of equalibrioception, graviception, proprioception, and occuloception has been damaged.

Look at that, he's been researching the relationship between sense of self and breathing:

https://hal.science/hal-03583057/document

I was just posting, in response to Apech, that at some point what lies beyond the boundaries of the senses must be incorporated into the location of one-pointedness, in order for the experience of one-pointedness to continue.  

It was a thing I loved about the soft-slam dancing at Mabuhay Gardens, back when--bodies flying everywhere, nobody getting hurt but entirely necessary to incorporate what lies beyond the immediate senses into the point of awareness, the point of awareness that moves the body without thought.  Not outside, but responsive to the unseen, by inclusion.

 

 

"Olaf Blanke would say, inside, unless the innate coordination of the senses of equalibrioception, graviception, proprioception, and occuloception has been damaged."
 

is that why you have a nice but also seemingly mischievous grin on your face?  (in your picture)

Edited June 24, 2023 by old3bob

[Mark Foote]

14 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

 

"Olaf Blanke would say, inside, unless the innate coordination of the senses of equalibrioception, graviception, proprioception, and occuloception has been damaged."
 

is that why you have a nice but also seemingly mischievous grin on your face?  (in your picture)

With my friend from the fourth grade, last fall:

 

 

[Mark Foote]

16 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

So a critical issue is finding where inside the human the one point is concentrated 
 

Lairg, thank you for that.  

Something I wrote to a friend just now:
 

I tried to help a friend understand my essay “Waking Up and Falling Asleep” yesterday.  We got as far as her placing her attention at her navel, but when I told her to let go of the placement of attention and just be there, she lost me.  Sad, that I can’t share that with her.

I’ve had three people who found the meaning in that essay, I know because they used it (use it?) to fall asleep.  Nevertheless, as koun Franz said, it’s not possible to make it happen (letting the mind go away from the head), because making it happen happens from the head.  So to speak.

 

 

The reference is to a lecture of koun Franz's:

 

... The other way to understand this is to literally place your mind where your hands are–to relocate mind (let’s not say your mind) to your centre of gravity, so that mind is operating from a place other than your brain. Some traditions take this very seriously, this idea of moving your consciousness around the body. I wouldn’t recommend dedicating your life to it, but as an experiment, I recommend trying it, sitting in this posture and trying to feel what it’s like to let your mind, to let the base of your consciousness, move away from your head. One thing you’ll find, or that I have found, at least, is that you can’t will it to happen, because you’re willing it from your head. To the extent that you can do it, it’s an act of letting go–and a fascinating one.

 

(“No Struggle [Zazen Yojinki, Part 6]”, by Koun Franz, from the “Nyoho Zen” site--
https://nyoho.com/2018/09/15/no-struggle-zazen-yojinki-part-6/)

 

 

From Waking Up and Falling Asleep:

 

In my experience, the practice is the same, whether I am waking up or falling asleep: when I realize my physical sense of location in space, and realize it as it occurs from one moment to the next, then I wake up or fall asleep as appropriate.

 

This practice is useful, when I wake up in the middle of the night and need to go back to sleep, or when I want to feel more physically alive in the morning. This practice is also useful when I want to feel my connection to everything around me, because my sense of place registers the contact of my awareness with each thing, as contact occurs.

 

Just before I fall asleep, my awareness can move very readily, and my sense of where I am tends to move with it. This is also true when I am waking up, although it can be harder to recognize (I tend to live through my eyes in the daytime, and associate my sense of place with them). When my awareness shifts readily, I realize that my ability to feel my location in space is made possible in part by the freedom of my awareness to move.

 

"This practice is also useful when I want to feel my connection to everything around me"--that's the part where the inside/outside gets interesting:
 

Sitting shikantaza is the place itself, and things. …When you sit, the cushion sits with you. If you wear glasses, the glasses sit with you. Clothing sits with you. House sits with you. People who are moving around outside all sit with you. They don’t take the sitting posture!

(“Aspects of Sitting Meditation”, “Shikantaza”; Kobun Chino Otogawa;
http://www.jikoji.org/intro-aspects/)

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Lairg]

I am inclined to distinguish mind-thoughts (e.g. in dreams or contemplation) from brain-thoughts when fully anchored in the physical body.

 

In meditation I rather like one-pointedness in the heart

 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, Lairg said:

 

I am inclined to distinguish mind-thoughts (e.g. in dreams or contemplation) from brain-thoughts when fully anchored in the physical body.

 

In meditation I rather like one-pointedness in the heart

 

I could use a clarification of terms like "mind-thoughts", "brain-thoughts", and "one-pointedness in the heart".  If you can.

[Lairg]

The mind interfaces with the brain by a layer that looks a bit like honeycomb.

 

When I look at those with dementia, the anchoring layer is largely disconnected.

 

When dreaming, humans are usually out of the body and therefore having mind-thoughts without brain interaction.  On waking the mind reconnects to the brain and usually the memory of dreams fades in a few minutes.

 

The flow of Life Force properly anchors in the heart from above.  The anchor can be seen as a point or when larger, as a flame.

 

One case of severe autism, the vertical flow of Light would not go through the contaminated brain and instead anchored in the back of the heart.  Thus the Life Force did not make the usual consciousness anchor in the brain

 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:12 PM, Lairg said:

 

The mind interfaces with the brain by a layer that looks a bit like honeycomb.

 

When I look at those with dementia, the anchoring layer is largely disconnected.

 

When dreaming, humans are usually out of the body and therefore having mind-thoughts without brain interaction.  On waking the mind reconnects to the brain and usually the memory of dreams fades in a few minutes.

 

The flow of Life Force properly anchors in the heart from above.  The anchor can be seen as a point or when larger, as a flame.

 

One case of severe autism, the vertical flow of Light would not go through the contaminated brain and instead anchored in the back of the heart.  Thus the Life Force did not make the usual consciousness anchor in the brain

 

 

I kinda get a feeling for what you're talking about, here:

The flow of Life Force properly anchors in the heart from above.  The anchor can be seen as a point or when larger, as a flame.

 

 

"One-pointedness" is really more like a flame than a point, for me.  Bends with the wind sometimes, even if it's centered in the dan t'ien.  Comes a moment when it cuts loose, but for me still in the body, even if I extend to include what I can't see, can't hear.