Angry Daoists

[Wayfarer64]

if i might make a suggestion, and it strikes at the heart of that to which i was alluding. and if i'm wrong then ignore it:

 

you cannot truly transcend unless you first embrace. you cannot have healing unless you first have ownership. these are phrases i throw at my students all the time.

 

it sounds as if you're seeking to disassociate from your feelings, and you write as if you've already done that to an extent, as your "recurring feelings of resentment" sound very distant from who you believe yourself to be. it's just some thing. a tool that won't seem to behave or something. the problem is that disassociation of that sort will never make it go away; in fact, it typically makes healing all the more difficult because of an unwillingness to fully embrace those feelings as a part of you.

 

how often do you sit with yourself, without judgment, and allow the good, the bad, and the ugly within you to just be? this is why so often i say "the saints weren't even saints." they were all just as (un)broken as we are.

 

what i say is feel the resentment, and also feel the shame for "not being better than that," and anything else that might arise. really know yourself, and don't make yourself wrong for feeling. just own it, and you'll naturally cultivate greater compassion for your own flawed humanity as well as the flawed humanity in others. you will be much more skillful in your relationships with others when you can fully embrace your shadow material.

transcendence will happen in its own time if you're able to embrace the whole of you.

beautiful AND grotesque. just like the Tao.

 

I thought that was what I was sharing- the process of recognition, making it "myown" and then releasing it... That the bitterness has not been fully resolved does irk me -for it seems almost impossible to let it go -

 

the issue is that I am unable not to remember being tortured by the Stanton/Pagones gang of neo-nazi miscreant thugs also imfamous for kidnapping Tawana Brawley- (they have attacked dozens of people over the years and continue to get away with murder- quite literally)... that so few in power are willing to investigate these matters, so to hold them accountable, (and also condone the torture of people in Abu-Graib and Guantonimo etc) - is the issue for me. By the way- I see the willingness to subjegate our fellow humans in Myanmar and Darfur as the same sort of thing, so- the issue recurs for me when I hear of those things as well...

 

My ability to sit and make the anger my own is easy. yet the will not to go out and seek vengence is the problem. It is within my power to bring retribution upon those who tortured me, yet I do not...this out of my belief that it will, in the end be my karmic-undoing to be so violent as to seek such recourse.

[Sahaj Nath]

I thought that was what I was sharing- the process of recognition, making it "myown" and then releasing it... That the bitterness has not been fully resolved does irk me -for it seems almost impossible to let it go -

 

the issue is that I am unable not to remember being tortured by the Stanton/Pagones gang of neo-nazi miscreant thugs also imfamous for kidnapping Tawana Brawley- (they have attacked dozens of people over the years and continue to get away with murder- quite literally)... that so few in power are willing to investigate these matters, so to hold them accountable, (and also condone the torture of people in Abu-Graib and Guantonimo etc) - is the issue for me. By the way- I see the willingness to subjegate our fellow humans in Myanmar and Darfur as the same sort of thing, so- the issue recurs for me when I hear of those things as well...

 

My ability to sit and make the anger my own is easy. yet the will not to go out and seek vengence is the problem. It is within my power to bring retribution upon those who tortured me, yet I do not...this out of my belief that it will, in the end be my karmic-undoing to be so violent as to seek such recourse.

 

fair enough.

 

what you explained makes perfect sense. i didn't get that in what you had initially written.

 

...trying very diligently to transcend and thus attend to my better instincts rather then dwell on revenge - (or even just ill will as it pops into my mind - as I am sometimes forced to recollect what angers me)... yet I seem unwillingly attached to my own past (in this life alone that is a serious anchor)

 

that didn't come across to me as ownership, but your latter explanation clarifies it quite well.

 

In all the use of emotions is a good thing. I can use anger as a tool as well as an obstruction for my better self

 

this statement continues to allude me though. but you don't have to explain it if you don't want to.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Hundun

[gendao]

the issue is that I am unable not to remember being tortured by the Stanton/Pagones gang of neo-nazi miscreant thugs also imfamous for kidnapping Tawana Brawley- (they have attacked dozens of people over the years and continue to get away with murder- quite literally)... that so few in power are willing to investigate these matters, so to hold them accountable, (and also condone the torture of people in Abu-Graib and Guantonimo etc) - is the issue for me. By the way- I see the willingness to subjegate our fellow humans in Myanmar and Darfur as the same sort of thing, so- the issue recurs for me when I hear of those things as well...

 

My ability to sit and make the anger my own is easy. yet the will not to go out and seek vengence is the problem. It is within my power to bring retribution upon those who tortured me, yet I do not...this out of my belief that it will, in the end be my karmic-undoing to be so violent as to seek such recourse.

Well, the Tawana Brawley charge was ruled a hoax. She was basically Crystal Gail Mangum v1.0.

Sharpton and Brawley's lawyers asserted "on 33 separate occasions" that a local prosecutor named Steven Pagones "had kidnapped, abused and raped" Brawley. There was no evidence, and Pagones was soon cleared. Sharpton then accused a local police cult with ties to the Irish Republican Army of perpetrating the alleged assault. The case fizzled when a security guard for Brawley's lawyers testified that the lawyers and Sharpton knew Brawley was lying.

After seven months of examining police and medical records and listening to the testimony of over one hundred witnesses, the grand jury determined that Tawana's charges were false and that her condition when found had been self-inflicted. The question remained: Why had she lied? One hypothesis was that since Tawana had already been grounded on the day she skipped school to visit her ex-boyfriend, she had made up the story of her abduction in order to avoid further punishment.

Anyhow, there are plenty of injustices and wrongdoing in this world.

 

And fighting them is not wrong, per se.

 

Just inefficient and short term. The only real way out of any paradigm is to transcend it.

 

Say you wanted to put MS out of business...you could start a company focused on waging ad campaigns against MS. But, until you provide a better alternative, people will still buy MS and keep them in business. You can't expect people to leave a sinking ship when they don't have a better one to jump onto. Also, no company survives by mudslinging alone. So, to really get rid of a mousetrap, you have to build a better one. That's destruction by creation and no violence.

 

And if "activists" focused more on creating than fighting, they'd have much more measurable results over time.

 

Again, I don't think activism, fighting or even violence are necessarily "wrong," per se - just not efficient, lasting solutions.

[Wayfarer64]

Well, the Tawana Brawley charge was ruled a hoax. She was basically Crystal Gail Mangum v1.0. :lol:Anyhow, there are plenty of injustices and wrongdoing in this world.

 

And fighting them is not wrong, per se.

 

Just inefficient and short term. The only real way out of any paradigm is to transcend it.

 

Say you wanted to put MS out of business...you could start a company focused on waging ad campaigns against MS. But, until you provide a better alternative, people will still buy MS and keep them in business. You can't expect people to leave a sinking ship when they don't have a better one to jump onto. Also, no company survives by mudslinging alone. So, to really get rid of a mousetrap, you have to build a better one. That's destruction by creation and no violence.

 

And if "activists" focused more on creating than fighting, they'd have much more measurable results over time.

 

Again, I don't think activism, fighting or even violence are necessarily "wrong," per se - just not efficient, lasting solutions.

 

Vortex- that you choose to regurgitate the lies perpitrated by the press is a usual response to the truth I offer to you. I know for a fact that that gang have attacked many Jews and Blacks and Catholics over the past 25 years.

 

They are a guy named Gary Wojohowitz or Wojohowski -known as "Wojo" in the navy -he was on board the ship that Pagones was officer on-& went AWOL from that ship circa 1980 or so... He now goes by the name "Ed" has had a face-job but as he has very small hands for a man he can still be recognized... a Native American -they called Chief was also from that ship.

 

William Stanton was the true leader of the "leaderless KKK cell". Pagones' brother - Lee was there as was his close friend "Dennis" who has red hair and a white-power (sword) tatoo on his forarm... There were other NYC cops involved as well- A detective who worked in mid-town north & at least two uniformed officers...

 

It is just another inconvenient truth. Because Pagones was the prosicutor of many cases against many blacks as an asst. DA in Paughkeepsie NY -it would be very awkward to reopen so many cases etc...

 

That there is no (political/legalistic) will to fight for the truth I offer here, is not new to me. Nor is the lack of will to address the wrongs in Darfur, Burma, China/Tibet, etc. etc...That we live in a Nation where our elections are rutinely stolen by falsified results -by both major parties - is known to many of us. So there are many reasons to be angry! How we deal with this agravating situations is the question here. Do we let them take us down to the level of the miscreants who perpitrate them - do we address them in a civil manner ( which is not getting it done) or do we try to just work on ourselves to TRANSCEND THIS CRAZY REALM OF EXISTANCE...While we are still here?

 

I think that is the question -not the truthyness of press clips. -In fact I have a very good friend who was a full-time reporter on the Tawana Brawly case who stands by the accepted verdict as well- and he was my campaign manager when I ran for public office... Some truths are just so very hard to grasp - much less accept as such.

 

The crimes at Abu-Graib would have been covered up forever if the current administration had been able to do so. Many injustices are not open to scruteny nor is it likely that all will ever be -(unless ya believe in Judgement day!)

[gendao]

Vortex- that you choose to regurgitate the lies perpitrated by the press is a usual response to the truth I offer to you. I know for a fact that that gang have attacked many Jews and Blacks and Catholics over the past 25 years.

 

wrongs in Darfur, Burma, China/Tibet, etc. etc...

Do you know for a fact that they attacked Tawana Bradley, as claimed?

 

Do you really believe Pagones raped her 33X on separate occasions?

 

I'm not claiming the press version is carved in stone either, but from what I've read there doesn't seem to be much evidence to the contrary. Anyhow, one single case is beside the point, either way...

-------------------------

Nonetheless, I see you yourself can be very press-driven. Just the fact that you bring up Darfur, Burma & Tibet...instead of the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq & Palestine tells me that you let the popular press metaframe your brain, instead of reality. That's what's known as being a "repeater."

 

Here's the facts on those, man:

 

200K dead in Darfur, mostly from climate change (not violence)

22K killed in Myanmar from cyclone

A few dozen killed in Tibet (including Han Chinese)

 

5 million killed in Congo civil war

1 million killed in Iraq since 2003 US invasion

5K Palestinians killed since 2000

 

Now, you tell me why the American press prioritizes the top 3 crises over the other 3? Is this really based on reality-based humanitarian concerns, or propaganda-based political agendas?

 

How in the hell can a few dozen casualties in Tibet MASSIVELY OUTWEIGH 5 MILLION killed in the CONGO in the Western press??

 

Why is Darfur a "genocide" but Iraq just a "police action?"

 

Why are Tibetan separatists "freedom fighters" but Palestinians "terrorists?"

 

How do 1/4 million lives outweigh 6 million in importance to the West???

 

Now, YOU THINK ABOUT IT AND GET BACK TO ME, BUDDY.

Edited May 22, 2008 by vortex

[Taiji Bum]

That's what's known as being a "repeater."

I love David Icke.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36...zJKaO4wKeh53ZCQ

[Spectrum]

Damn plow getting stuck w/ clods... now where are those gold coins supposed to be?

[Patrick Brown]

I love David Icke.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36...zJKaO4wKeh53ZCQ

Yeah but If "I" happen to mention that politicians are lackeys of the system and people that work are slaves then Hundun will just tell me that "I" need therapy!

 

Up yah fucking arse. *pisses self laughing*

 

[Sahaj Nath]

Yeah but If "I" happen to mention that politicians are lackeys of the system and people that work are slaves then Hundun will just tell me that "I" need therapy!

 

Up yah fucking arse. *pisses self laughing*

 

 

get over it already. i was very clear about what i was addressing with you, and then i dropped the matter.

 

you're still stuck on it.

 

with wayfarer i was talking about something completely different, and the political stuff was just tangential.

 

 

 

and i never implied you needed therapy. i implied that you needed to do more homework so as not to make gross generalizations whilst talking about the 'arrogance of pseudo understanding.' and i wasn't the only one to point that out.

 

 

you didn't appreciate my comments. i get it. and i haven't commented on your threads after that.

 

leave it be, man.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Hundun

[Patrick Brown]

[Wayfarer64]

Vortex

you make many good points and yes I dumbed-down my examples to make a point that was weakened by not mentioning the all too many other atrocities we should all pay attention to addressing. -

 

And yes I do know for a fact that the Stanton/Pagonas "leaderless cell" of the KKK are multiple murderers and rapists. I also know for a fact that it was the KKK, (with the help from members of Altanta's police dept.)- who were the killers of the children that Wayne Williams was framed for.

 

The KKK is still very strong in our nation- Remember as recently as the 1920's & 30's they had HUGH marches in our nation's capital...They now wear suits and talk as if they realize that racism has limits that they try to make seem reasonable to those suseptable to such pseudo-info...I for one KNOW neo-nazies are here. I have named a few of them here. And yes, they deal in death, torture and terror. Still.

 

Many are threatened by them daily... the recent quip from Hillary about assassination is pointing in that horrid direction as well- to bring up another press related issue.

 

There are many facts that have been obfuscated here and abroad as far back as history allows memory. And we each seem to choose what we believe as we see fit and as we are exposed to greater and wider truths...or narrower and narrower belief systems as the case may be...