Sadhguru on being stoned and alert at the same time without intoxicants

[Taoist Texts]

17 hours ago, searcher7977 said:

mocking and disrespecting another spiritual teacher, Sadhguru. 

must be a bad thing to do. not sure if this article mocking him or disrespecting him

Quote

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgy8bw/climate-yoga-celebrity-sadhguru-india-will-smith-trevor-noah

 

He’s a regular face at global climate change events hosted by organisations like the U.N. and World Economic Forum. 

In India, though, an army of environmentalists, activists and indigenous communities paint a contrasting – and problematic – picture of the world-famous yoga guru. 

“He’s not a guru, he’s a businessman,” said Siva, who is a member of Velliangiri Hill Tribals Protection Society

 

WEF eh?

[Ajay0]

42 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

must be a bad thing to do. not sure if this article mocking him or disrespecting him

WEF eh?

 

These points have been covered in this thread of mine...

 

 

[Ajay0]

18 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Ok for a serious answer

 

This whole thing is very simplistic. Being drunk and being stoned are both very different things, you have a different state of mind for both and your body is affected in different ways.

 Whether you are being drunk with alcohol or stoned with drugs , you are just experiencing euphoria for a temporary period of time followed by miserable hangovers.

 

 Also the strong desire or craving one develops for such external intoxicants creates addictions and effectively prevent one from moving to higher states of consciousness and enlightenment. Drugs and alcohol actually have the effect of making a person more unconscious rather than mindful or aware.

 

 Statistics shows that the majority of manslaughters, murders and stabbings and domestic assaults, traffic violations and accidents are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

 

Dependent users of drugs also commit crimes such as theft, fraud and shoplifting to buy drugs if they lack the financial resources to buy the same.Drug users in the general population are more likely than nonusers to commit crimes.

 

https://www.drugwise.org.uk/how-much-crime-is-drug-related/

 

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF

 

https://recovered.org/addiction/alcohol-drugs-and-crime

 

Quote

 

 It’s estimated that between 25-50% of violent crimes are committed by someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol, as were nearly 60% of robbery, theft, and property crimes which led to incarceration.

 

 

 

 

 Meditation is cheap to study and learn, but it is not so with drugs/alcohol and I know of many people who have badly damaged their finances as well as professional and personal lives due to indulgence in it.

 

 It is quite clear from this that meditation makes one more aware or mindful while drugs and alcohol makes one more unconscious.

 

 Also health benefits from practice of meditation are well researched and documented...

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/meditation/in-depth/meditation/art-20045858

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/12-benefits-of-meditation
 
https://positivepsychology.com/benefits-of-meditation/

Alcohol and drug consumption, on the other hand, are associated with poor health...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/well/mind/alcohol-health-effects.html

 

Quote

 

After decades of confusing and sometimes contradictory research (too much alcohol is bad for you but a little bit is good; some types of alcohol are better for you than others; just kidding, it’s all bad), the picture is becoming clearer: Even small amounts of alcohol can have health consequences.

 

 

 

 

https://www.who.int/health-topics/alcohol#tab=tab_1

 

Quote

 

Alcohol consumption contributes to 3 million deaths each year globally as well as to the disabilities and poor health of millions of people. Overall, harmful use of alcohol is responsible for 5.1% of the global burden of disease.

 

Harmful use of alcohol is accountable for 7.1% and 2.2% of the global burden of disease for males and females respectively. Alcohol is the leading risk factor for premature mortality and disability among those aged 15 to 49 years, accounting for 10% of all deaths in this age group. Disadvantaged and especially vulnerable populations have higher rates of alcohol-related death and hospitalization.

 

 

 

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/drug-addiction/symptoms-causes/syc-20365112

 

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/substance-use/index.htm

 

Quote

 

Youth with substance use disorders also experience higher rates of physical and mental illnesses, diminished overall health and well-being, and potential progression to addiction.

 

 

 

 

 

 I regularly read or hear of people dying of drug overdoses but never a single case of one dying out of meditation.

 

So one can see that meditation can produce high bliss levels without any of the heavy social, financial and health issues associated with drug and alcohol consumption. 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Ajay0

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

I’m sorry but even equating meditation and getting drunk/high is a massive disservice to meditation and honestly quite infantile. It should not just be reduced to “it feels good plus no hangover”.

 

Whatever happened to enlightenment, spirituality, escaping samsara etc, or something more worldly like better health, clearer mind, no bad habits? Is the bar really so low that you have to compare meditation to going to the pub?

[Neirong]

11 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I’m sorry but even equating meditation and getting drunk/high is a massive disservice to meditation and honestly quite infantile. It should not just be reduced to “it feels good plus no hangover”.

 

Whatever happened to enlightenment, spirituality, escaping samsara etc, or something more worldly like better health, clearer mind, no bad habits? Is the bar really so low that you have to compare meditation to going to the pub?

Scamgong teachers have a tendency to bring their personal pathological flaws into masses. I.e. turning spirituality, daoist path, self-development and enlightenment, into a cozy pub, with sportcars, whiskey and cigars, e.t.c.

Beer talks about Vajrayana, Buddhism, Daoism, Sages of the past, Shen, Zen, Ming, Xing, endless bla bla.
People even wonder what is the problem? Degradation is the new norm, of 2023. Main thing you have a spiritual authority behind with a large crowd of followers to support it.

[C T]

The thing that binds one to samsara is craving. Even craving for the good is a form of stress. This is very clear in the Buddhist approach towards bliss. 

 

Also, it's not just substances that people abuse; even meditation, in its myriad forms, can be abused, or used as a manipulative tool for toxic self  gratification. 

 

On a very practical level, using drugs as an intermediary in attempts to understand and perhaps gain deeper insights into the cause(s) of craving (I think it's Tanha in Sanskrit, translated as 'recurring thirst') present some fundamental but easily avoidable hiccupy problems. 

 

___  ___

 

"Bound with the bondage of craving,

their minds smitten with becoming and non-becoming, they are bound with the bondage of Mara - people with no safety from bondage, beings going through the wandering-on, headed for birth and death. 

 

While those who've abandoned craving, free from the craving for becoming and non-becoming, reaching the end of fermentations, though in the world, have gone beyond." -- Gautama Buddha 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by C T

[dwai]

15 hours ago, Neirong said:

While our methods, for example, can lead to a massive "getting high" experiences, I would be wary of using it as the main selling point to the masses to avoid drug addicts and junkies joining our classes for the sake of getting high itself, rather than spiritual development and improvement of a character. Getting high is merely a byproduct of filling and harmonizing self with energy through cultivation; it is never a goal or addiction.

indeed. If that was the only thing being proclaimed then it is certainly problematic. However often what is picked up in video clips are done so by unaasociated individuals, and are missing the context of the larger talk or conversation. What if it was the case that a teacher is asked about the use of drugs etc? Would it then be reasonable for them to say, “you don’t need drugs - try meditation and yoga/qigong/neigong/what have you” and see - you might find that the high you are seeking is already within you? It can be potentially life-altering for an addict who can give up substance abuse and replace it with meditation. Rest can follow with deepening maturity of practice. 

15 hours ago, Neirong said:

 

If you had a dry river internally for all your life that suddenly has a massive inflow of water, and plants sprout on it, you will feel it positively. If you get a beginner energy body going and internal pressure bouncing you off the ground when you walk, with a dense resin energy between your hands, it will impact your well-being and mood.

Yes - and usually it is a starting point. I’ve found sadhguru draws a line between the “normal” person who is simply looking to improve their quality of life, reduce stress, etc and the “practitioner” who is interested in realization. Sometimes the normal person becomes a serious practitioner. Many don’t. That’s okay imho. They have a better quality of life, and can become better members of society just by doing the basic practices. 

[dwai]

3 hours ago, C T said:

I think it's Tanha in Sanskrit, translated as 'recurring thirst'

It is Trshnā. 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, searcher7977 said:

 

Personally I would say no, no mocking. But that is from my buddhist background, since it tells us to refrain from harsh speech. In yoga, mocking is not encouraged as part of ahimsa depending on the school, but can fall under other yamas and niyamas as well. I do not know about Taoist perspectives. I have posted asking about it on this forum but it went unanswered some time ago.

 

Its one thing to call it out as rubbish or to say its wrong. Its another to mock or be sarcastic. But, perhaps you see it differently. I don't think I have quite as much experience as you, at most I am a serious beginner. 

 

 

 

perhaps you can point out where the mocking actually is  ?

 

You do know what 'mocking' actually means , yeah ?

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 Whether you are being drunk with alcohol or stoned with drugs , you are just experiencing euphoria for a temporary period of time followed by miserable hangovers.

 

 Also the strong desire or craving one develops for such external intoxicants creates addictions and effectively prevent one from moving to higher states of consciousness and enlightenment. Drugs and alcohol actually have the effect of making a person more unconscious rather than mindful or aware.

 

 Statistics shows that the majority of manslaughters, murders and stabbings and domestic assaults, traffic violations and accidents are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

 

Dependent users of drugs also commit crimes such as theft, fraud and shoplifting to buy drugs if they lack the financial resources to buy the same.Drug users in the general population are more likely than nonusers to commit crimes.

 

https://www.drugwise.org.uk/how-much-crime-is-drug-related/

 

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF

 

https://recovered.org/addiction/alcohol-drugs-and-crime

 

 

 Meditation is cheap to study and learn, but it is not so with drugs/alcohol and I know of many people who have badly damaged their finances as well as professional and personal lives due to indulgence in it.

 

 It is quite clear from this that meditation makes one more aware or mindful while drugs and alcohol makes one more unconscious.

 

 Also health benefits from practice of meditation are well researched and documented...

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/meditation/in-depth/meditation/art-20045858

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/12-benefits-of-meditation
 
https://positivepsychology.com/benefits-of-meditation/

Alcohol and drug consumption, on the other hand, are associated with poor health...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/well/mind/alcohol-health-effects.html

 

 

https://www.who.int/health-topics/alcohol#tab=tab_1

 

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/drug-addiction/symptoms-causes/syc-20365112

 

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/substance-use/index.htm

 

 

 

 I regularly read or hear of people dying of drug overdoses but never a single case of one dying out of meditation.

 

So one can see that meditation can produce high bliss levels without any of the heavy social, financial and health issues associated with drug and alcohol consumption. 

 

 

 

I cannot fathom how in any way this relates to the quote from Pak-Satrio  that you put above this little discourse .

 

Its almost as though you think he is advocating drug use over meditation .

 

You dont seem to be understanding the essential point of our protests  .

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Neirong said:

Scamgong teachers have a tendency to bring their personal pathological flaws into masses. I.e. turning spirituality, daoist path, self-development and enlightenment, into a cozy pub, with sportcars, whiskey and cigars, e.t.c.

Beer talks about Vajrayana, Buddhism, Daoism, Sages of the past, Shen, Zen, Ming, Xing, endless bla bla.
People even wonder what is the problem? Degradation is the new norm, of 2023. Main thing you have a spiritual authority behind with a large crowd of followers to support it.

 

12 hrs of satsang is just like driving an E-type Jaguar  ..... and   regular tantric practice is better than going to a prostitute.  '    

[Nungali]

42 minutes ago, dwai said:

indeed. If that was the only thing being proclaimed then it is certainly problematic. However often what is picked up in video clips are done so by unaasociated individuals, and are missing the context of the larger talk or conversation.

What if it was the case that a teacher is asked about the use of drugs etc? Would it then be reasonable for them to say, “you don’t need drugs - try meditation and yoga/qigong/neigong/what have you” and see - you might find that the high you are seeking is already within you? It can be potentially life-altering for an addict who can give up substance abuse and replace it with meditation. Rest can follow with deepening maturity of practice. 

Yes - and usually it is a starting point. I’ve found sadhguru draws a line between the “normal” person who is simply looking to improve their quality of life, reduce stress, etc and the “practitioner” who is interested in realization. Sometimes the normal person becomes a serious practitioner. Many don’t. That’s okay imho. They have a better quality of life, and can become better members of society just by doing the basic practices. 

 

Well, that is exactly what the OP did .   and check the thread title .

 

SOMEONE  thought it was a good idea to bring this aspect forward and disassociate it from any other  context that you suggest might have been   in the talk .

 

and some posters are still defending this 'narrow context '

 

 

[searcher7977]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

perhaps you can point out where the mocking actually is  ?

 

You do know what 'mocking' actually means , yeah ?

 

I know what it means, yes.

 

I'll be honest, I'd rather not point out. I do like reading posts by the other posters here, even if I disagree with them sometimes, and I really don't want to offend or stir up things.

 

And also, as someone who has gone back and read past 10 year old threads that were full of sometimes helpful sometimes not helpful things, I don't want to potentially derail this thread for future readers.

 

I do appreciate your response though, and I'm sure future readers will too when deciding for themselves.

[C T]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

It is Trshnā. 

[dwai]

3 hours ago, C T said:

That’s not a Sanskrit word. Must be pali  

[C T]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

That’s not a Sanskrit word. Must be pali  

Must be 😊

[Ajay0]

Drugs are also a cause of geopolitical issues and disturbances around the world.

 

It served as a major source of funds for terrorist organisations like the Taliban and ISIS. After the defeat of U.S.-NATO forces in 2021, the Taliban came to power and ironically banned drug production, possibly to gain international legitimacy, declaring it as haram under Islamic law, and possibly considering the large number of Afghan drug addicts.

 

The Mexican drug war, initiated in 2006, has resulted in over 350000 homicides and 90000 missing.Similar drug wars in the Phillipines, Thailand,Bangladesh has resulted in deaths of thousands.

 

As a result of the concentration of drug trafficking, Latin America and the Caribbean has the world's highest crime rates, with murder reaching 32.6 per 100,000 of population in 2008. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_Latin_America#:~:text=As a result of the,intensified the Mexican Drug War.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs

 

Narcoterrorism is a term coined by a former Peruvian president describing terrorist attacks against his nations anti-narcotics police.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcoterrorism

 It is clear that a sea of blood has been tragically spilt in these issues of competitive drug trafficking and drug prohibition, as well as violence committed under the influence of drugs. Getting into 'highs' should not be at the expense of society around oneself by creating victims in the process, imho.

 

[Nungali]

[Cobie]

 

11 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

I like the way he holds his matchbox. 

 

 

[Nungali]

'Jungle grip '    

 

My friend (see video I posted in Aboriginal thread ) passed a lighter to me like that, the first time I sat by his fire . The Nephs where having a giggle .   But .....  I used to play with that grip since I was a kid  .... and was able to take the lighter the same way .  Which caused surprise ...... if only I could have lit it up that way .... that would have been  very impressive  ! 

[Cobie]

22 minutes ago, Nungali said:

… was able to take the lighter the same way .  …

Definitely impressive.  
 

 

[Indiken]

40 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

like a New Ager 

[Cobie]

Fond memories. 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Cobie

[Ajay0]

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 Cannabis, also known as marijuana, is a drug that is used in the minority Tantrik  sects of Hinduism (left-handed path) along with alcohol and meat, and some northern Shaivite sects, such as the Naga sect.

 

 Its use is not standard in Hinduism, due to its potential addictive properties that lead to cravings and unconsciousness.

 

 It is stated in Ayurveda, the Indian medical system, as 'nectar' due to its medicinal properties and as 'poison' as a reacreational drug.

 

 It is used judiciously in some religious settings to still the mind, but never for a lengthy period of time due to the tamasic or negative states of mind it can create such as dependency and addiction. But these are done rarely and is frowned upon generally due to the dangers associated with it.

 

It is also taken according to religious rites and regulations , and is considered sinful if not taken according to such rites.

 

Consequently, the sadhus as shown in the photo above, who indulge in cannabis are a peaceful, religious and austere lot and are not known for criminal activities such as theft and murder.

 

It is also used amongst those of the Sufi and Sikh religions during festivals.

 

British researchers in 2007, using Delphic analysis, stated that cannabis has a lower risk factor for dependence/addictivity compared to nicotine and alcohol.

 

In Buddhism, cannabis is generally regarded as an intoxicant and hindrance to development of meditation and clear awareness.

 

It is legal only in some regions of India where licensed shops sell it. 

 

Other drugs such as opium ( introduced in India around 700 A.D. by the arabs) has no similar status or sanction though it has medical properties in Ayurveda when used judiciously. The  same goes for other drugs like heroin, lsd, mdx and so on.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Ajay0

[Nungali]

 "  Cannabis causes unconsciousness "