Neem Karoli Baba shows Ram Dass the superficiality of drugs in comparison to the enlightened state

[Ajay0]

In this article, Ram Dass ( Richard Alpert) described an experience he had when the enlightened Neem Karoli swallowed all his drugs in one go ...

 

https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/

 

 

Quote

 

He started yelling for water and drank a cup when it was brought.

Then he asked, “How long will it take to act?”

“Anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour.”

 

He called for an older man, a long -time devotee who had a watch, and Maharajji held the man’s wrist, often pulling it up to him to peer at the watch.

Then he asked,” Will it make me crazy?”

That seemed so bizarre to me that I could only go along with what seemed to be a gag.

So I said, “Probably.”

 

And then we waited. After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening? Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the “medicine” really was. Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch.

 

At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had been a total put-on. And then he asked, “Have you got anything stronger?” I didn’t. Then he said, “These medicines were used in Kullu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now. To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God.Others would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this.” And he left it at that.

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

A contemporary story ( going off memory here , back to the days of Ram Das  ) , I think it was 'Maharishi' that some people gave a good dose of LSD to . he took it and sat there  .... nothing ! Then after a few hours smiled and commented ;   " This is a very   interesting drug ! "

 

....  and left it at that .

 

back then .... psychedelics and gurus (and certain rock musicians    sometimes 'went together ' ) .

[Taoist Texts]

5 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

the enlightened Neem Karoli

what is it with all these enlightened babas and rape? seems to be a thing

https://therevealer.org/the-guru-disciple-relationship-and-the-complications-of-consent/

[Ajay0]

38 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

what is it with all these enlightened babas and rape? seems to be a thing

https://therevealer.org/the-guru-disciple-relationship-and-the-complications-of-consent/

 

Accusations of rape and sexual abuse is an easy way to slander people and malign them.

 

Vivekananda, after his success in the Parliament of religions in 1893, was similarly accused of sexual promiscuity, meat-eating and various other slander without any merit in them. 

 

That an eastern heathen had come and become a major success in the 1893 Parliament of Religions ( which was supposed to be a platform for the supposed superiority of certain religions) was oviously not to everyone's liking.

 

Rigging up false witnesses and testimony is not a major deal in today's world, if you ask me, especially if it serves certain vested interests.

 

Some spiritual teachers like Anthony de Mello and Thomas Merton, who had emphasized interfaith dialogue in their works, were found dead in mysterious circumstances suggesting foul play. 

 

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

what is it with all these enlightened babas and rape? seems to be a thing

https://therevealer.org/the-guru-disciple-relationship-and-the-complications-of-consent/

Yes “a tiny baby” sums it up nicely (see article).

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Cobie

[Taoist Texts]

40 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

Rigging up false witnesses and testimony

hehe yeah this is actually funny.  This particular rape by the the enlightened Neem Karoli Baba

Quote

was published back in 1979 in Ram Dass’s widely read devotional book Miracle of Love: Stories about Neem Karoli Baba.

 

so it was not rigging. It was an admiring factual account of a rape, by an enlightened baba student about his enlightened baba teacher raping somebody

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

hehe yeah this is actually funny.  This particular rape by the the enlightened Neem Karoli Baba

so it was not rigging. It was an admiring factual account of a rape, by an enlightened baba student about his enlightened baba teacher raping somebody

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

 

 

Yeah .... these moderns just will not have it !  Certainly NOT a guru !  they are spiritual and holy !

 

I  once exposed a pedo .... Oh my, the repercussions I faced , I even had female friends support him and go against me !   One of his trips was he was a Sai Baba  admirer , he openly admitted Sai baba was a pedo to as  many of his devotees admitted it , and not as an accusation against him .  Read the above article  - VERY INTERESTING - a similar dynamic unfolded with them , they where not actually  COMPLAINING about it . And the pedo justified it to me as ' Well, he is God , how do we know what his motives are .... maybe he was  'turning on that boy's chakras ' .   OMG !   and the pedo , I suppose was continuing  his masters work ?

 

get this ; in his justification for his actions he posed this scenario to me . We had recently had a huge spring equinox festival with a few rituals and one huge main one in our central circle , which i and my partner at the time organized . He knew I was into ritual magick ( he was not but played with it and posed as if he was - while, of course, warning others about MY 'dark energy '  ), so here is what he posed to me as some type of philosophical justification ;

 

"Say we did a ritual like that and invoked the Great God Pan  and he actually appeared  and said I must have that young girl there to sacrifice her virginity .... what would you say then ?"

Me;  " I would instantly assume someone had got into  the circle that should not be  there  ... like YOU for example ,  and projected their psyche as an apparition and I would draw my magical dagger and stab the imposter right through the throat !  ... and frankly, I would care if I did it to the imposter apparition or the person responsible for generating it . "

 

This pedo was popular , 'spiritual'  and wooed people with his songs and guitar playing . It was sickening to watch .  I went in top report it at child services , boy did that open a huger can of worms !    He left the area , he moved to a 'cooler and more spiritual place ' where new people adore him under his new spiritual name .

 

And ..... some still do not approve of my opinion of him .   Some point blank refused to believe my reported  experience , even women close to the situation !  No wonder victims themselves hesitate or refuse to expose them !

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Accusations of rape and sexual abuse is an easy way to slander people and malign them.

 

Vivekananda, after his success in the Parliament of religions in 1893, was similarly accused of sexual promiscuity, meat-eating and various other slander without any merit in them. 

 

That an eastern heathen had come and become a major success in the 1893 Parliament of Religions ( which was supposed to be a platform for the supposed superiority of certain religions) was oviously not to everyone's liking.

 

Rigging up false witnesses and testimony is not a major deal in today's world, if you ask me, especially if it serves certain vested interests.

 

Some spiritual teachers like Anthony de Mello and Thomas Merton, who had emphasized interfaith dialogue in their works, were found dead in mysterious circumstances suggesting foul play. 

 

 

 

Why defend 'evil' for the sake of your imagined 'spirituality ' .

 

Dont you have any experience ...real life experience  ... in this area ?

[Ajay0]

16 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

hehe yeah this is actually funny.  This particular rape by the the enlightened Neem Karoli Baba

so it was not rigging. It was an admiring factual account of a rape, by an enlightened baba student about his enlightened baba teacher raping somebody

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

 

 Ram Dass had given an account of NKB' interaction with a foreign female devotee, but he has not given such explicit details as is written in the article, otherwise the whole book would have been controversial back then itself.

 

So your argument that it is 'not rigging' does not hold water. 

 

NKB gives attention to foreign devotees who have come all over the world to his ashram. 

 

Because of their youthfulness, perhaps NKB gives more attention and care to them. Because of cultural differences this is often misinterpreted and even amplified with false narratives .

 

I remember reading a letter in a local Indian magazine by an Indian youth addressed to a counsellor, who had a disturbing experience with his cousin who was born and brought up in the west. In his own words, when he met his teenage cousin after a long time, he tried to show love with intimate hugs and holding hands , which is a typical cultural charecterestic in the east.

 

However the westernised cousin misinterpreted this intimate behavior as homosexual , and even insulted his shocked elder cousin with homophobic slurs.  He was at a loss on what to do and thereby wrote a letter for guidance on this matter. 

 

Imho, much of such accusations has to do with cultural differences along with propaganda by powerful vested interests. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ajay0

[Taoist Texts]

9 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 Ram Dass had given an account of NKB' interaction with a foreign female devotee, but he has not given such explicit details as is written in the article

no. what you say is wrong. he has given all the details

Quote

He started making out with me, and it was so cute, so pure. I was swept into it for a few moments— then grew alarmed: “Wait! This is my guru. One doesn't do this with one's guru!" So I pulled away from him. Then Maharajji tilted his head sideways and wrinkled up his eyebrows in a tender, endearing, quizzical look. He didn't say anything, but his whole being was saying to me, “Don't you like me?" But as soon as I walked out of that particular darshan, I started getting so sick that by the end of the day I felt I had vomited and shit out everything that was ever inside me. I had to be carried out of the ashrdm. On the way, we stopped by Maharajji's room so I could pranam to him. I kneeled by the tucket and put my head down by his feet— and he kicked me in the head, saying, “Get her out of here!" I was unable to move for the next three days, but after that I felt perfectly well again. And I had worked through a lot of my reactions to that darshan: revulsion, confusion, and so forth. That was the first time, and I was to be there for two years. During my last month there, I was alone with him every day in the room. There was a progression of comprehension. He seemed in one way to be turning me into a Mother, helping me to understand that sex is okay. Sometimes he would just touch me on the breasts and between my legs, saying, “This is mine, this is mine, this is mine. A ll is mine. You are mine."

https://maharajji.love/files/downloads/pdf_downloads/Miracle_of_Love_v1.pdf

 

 

explicit enough for you?

you are not trying to whitewash this enlightened groomer-rapist baba, i am sure. 

 

19 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Because of their youthfulness, perhaps NKB gives more attention and care to them.

Although here I am not sure what you are trying to say. Do you call the rape 'attention and care'? Or you call Ramdass a liar?

[Ajay0]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

no. what you say is wrong. he has given all the details

 

explicit enough for you?

you are not trying to whitewash this enlightened groomer-rapist baba, i am sure. 

 

Although here I am not sure what you are trying to say. Do you call the rape 'attention and care'? Or you call Ramdass a liar?

 

Lol. 

 

I checked the event described in the book, and the context surrounding it.  This is again an another example of misinterpretation of cultural traits of Hinduism. 

 

Here is additional material after that...

 

Quote

 

Maharajji had called me into the small room in the Kainchi ashram and asked me to sit on the tucket with him. He then began calling me “Ma, M a," and said to me, half in English, half in Hindi, “Meri Mother, meri Mother." As he did so, it seemed as if his body had shrunk to the size of a baby's in diapers before my very eyes. I held him in my arms and rocked him like a baby.

 

 

 

 

As per Shaktaism and right-handed Tantra, every woman or female is a manifestation of the Divine Mother on earth and is seen as such. 

 

Sri Ramakrishna bowed and fell on his feet before every woman, including prostitutes, hailing them as the Divine Mother of the Universe or feminine God.

 

NKB had similarly approached this woman as a son approaches a mother. 

 

I found other similar incidents in this book, and this should be studied and understood in the cultural context of Shaktaism and right-handed Tantra where a man perceives a woman as a son perceives his mother and treats her so, as a form of worship of the Divine Mother. 

 

You can see from the op that NKB  is capable of mind-reading and had responded to Ram Dass's inner questions and doubts promptly and clearly without Ram Dass asking any questions. 

 

An enlightened sage similarly can study the mental makeup of a person , his karmas and psychological structure and act accordingly for the purpose of resolving karmic issues, even though such behavior may seem strange and unconventional to conditioned people.

 

 Sri Mumtaz Ali Khan, an Indian muslim of Afghan origin, had recounted in his autobiography , ' Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master (A Yogi's Autobiography)' , of how he met a famous naked sage through his uncle. When Khan prostrated before the sage, the sage kicked his face . When Khan protested to his uncle, his uncle said it would be for a reason. Later Khan found his sinus issues which had bothered him for a long time had totally disappeared. 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ajay0

[Cobie]

 

 

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

… the sage kicked his face . …

 

 

“the sage kicked his face”. Then there is no “sage”, only an abuser.

 

 

[Ajay0]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

“the sage kicked his face”. Then there is no “sage”, only an abuser.

 

 

 Yes, all the more reason to stay away from dangerous people like him. 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

NKB had similarly approached this woman as a son approaches a mother. 

erm, the account specifically says that he raped this woman/student, made out with her, touched her between her legs, kicked her in the head, groomed her for a long time, breaking her very strong initial  resistance. 

 

no human culture has this kind mother-son approach. also, almost no human would  be so shameless as  to rational rape and the rapist gurus this way. almost. this conversation was quite educational.

[Ajay0]

15 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

erm, the account specifically says that he raped this woman/student, made out with her, touched her between her legs, kicked her in the head, groomed her for a long time, breaking her very strong initial  resistance. 

 

 

 This is not there in the book, only in the article, possibly due to misinterpretation , not studying the whole context in the book, and lack of knowledge of Indian cultural traditions of Tantra. It is quite clear in the book itself that NKB exemplified Tantric practices.

 

These are some of  his own teachings obtained from the book you have posted here ...

 

Quote

 

CHRIST AND HANUMAN SAW ALL WOMEN AS THE MOTHER . YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE MOTHER  TO REALIZE GOD .

 

SEE ALL WOMEN AS MOTHERS , SERVE THEM AS YOUR MOTHER . WHEN YOU SEE THE ENTIRE WORLD AS THE MOTHER , THE EGO FALLS AWAY. ~ Neem Karoli Baba
 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

no human culture has this kind mother-son approach. also, almost no human would  be so shameless as  to rational rape and the rapist gurus this way. almost. this conversation was quite educational.

 

 

 What knowledge do you have of right handed Tantra, which is an ancient tradition in India ! 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ajay0

[Cobie]

 

On 11/07/2023 at 12:57 PM, Ajay0 said:

… What knowledge do you have …

Common sense.

 

edit: I value common sense above all. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Cobie

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

 

 

“the sage kicked his face”. Then there is no “sage”, only an abuser.

 

 

 

 

No no .... he was a healer .     Just like a rapist might be 'doing a chakra adjustment ' .

 

 

What is it with these 'spiritual types' and their proclivity to believe  lame excuses as a cover up ??? 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

erm, the account specifically says that he raped this woman/student, made out with her, touched her between her legs, kicked her in the head, groomed her for a long time, breaking her very strong initial  resistance.

 

no human culture has this kind mother-son approach. also, almost no human would  be so shameless as  to rational rape and the rapist gurus this way. almost. this conversation was quite educational.

 

Well ... maybe she was untidy , that is why he 'groomed her' , she was also lonely  so he 'made out with her' ,  she had a spider crawling up her legs, thats why he touched her between them,  and she also apparently had a sinus problem that was to do with her general 'resistance'  to 'spirituality'  .... shrank down to baby size  . 

 

Ummmm ......  

 

[Ajay0]

12 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Common sense. 

 

 

 Common sense is not synonymous with ignorance. 

 

It is similar to saying that Trump is the owner of the Taj Mahal, when it is actually a historical  monument in India.

[Ajay0]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Well ... maybe she was untidy , that is why he 'groomed her' , she was also lonely  so he 'made out with her' ,  she had a spider crawling up her legs, thats why he touched her between them,  and she also apparently had a sinus problem that was to do with her general 'resistance'  to 'spirituality'  .... shrank down to baby size  . 

 

Ummmm ......  

 

 

 Do you seriously think that a man who was equanimous and clear-minded even after taking a heavy dosage of drugs which would have made anyone else delirious or nuts or even dead with a heart attack, would be moved to lustful agitation by the presence of a woman !  

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

What is it with these 'spiritual types' and their proclivity to believe  lame excuses as a cover up ??? 

good question. First of all these guru's are very powerful honcho's. They managed to amass a cultist fanatic following. And there is no sane  reasoning with cultists - they are literally insane, remember all these mass suicide cults. And as to sex - sex and power go hand in hand always, remember Clinton, Weinstein etc...

 

The spirituality of these guru's is of a sordid kind, prefabricated for mass consumption like macdonald food or hollywood movies. Just much more sordid, much more hypocritical. Anyone  gullible enough to swallow it will swallow any lame excuse. 

[C T]

Gullibility is the only thing older than the oldest profession. 

 

Some Iranian chap made himself up to be a Lionel Messi lookalike, deceiving 23 women into lustful soirees in the name of gullibility. 

 

But the question is... was it really deception when the whole premise of sleeping with a superstar footballer is based off a fantasy? 23 women fantasised about sex with Messi, and a pretender fantasised about bedding 23 women. Remember: cause and effect is never a linear thing. Similar personal, transactional & institutional dynamics play out in countless other situations, so don't be too quick to pass moral judgements. 

[Ajay0]

27 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

good question. First of all these guru's are very powerful honcho's. They managed to amass a cultist fanatic following. And there is no sane  reasoning with cultists - they are literally insane, remember all these mass suicide cults. And as to sex - sex and power go hand in hand always, remember Clinton, Weinstein etc...

 

The spirituality of these guru's is of a sordid kind, prefabricated for mass consumption like macdonald food or hollywood movies. Just much more sordid, much more hypocritical. Anyone  gullible enough to swallow it will swallow any lame excuse. 

 

 Guru is an ancient sanskrit word meaning remover of darkness ( unconsciousness).

 

 It is an ancient tradition in India and the Buddha himself was a Guru and enlightened master.

 

In the ancient epics Ramayana and Mahabharatha, you can see the Avatars Rama and Krishna having Gurus like Vasishta and Sandeepani.

 

The yoga vasistha is a famous treatise on the discussion between prince Rama and his Guru Vasistha on various issues touching worldly and spiritual life.

 

The Ashtavakra Gita is a similar treatise on the dialogue and discussion between King Janaka and his Guru Ashtavakra leading to his enlightenment.

 

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna serves as a Guru to Arjuna in the midst of the battlefield, clearing up his confusions and delusions.

 It is not a two or three century old tradition.

 

An enlightened sage is also a source of auspicious energies and high prana/chi levels. This is why satsang or company of sages is emphasized in eastern religious philosophy.

 

There is no hard and fast rule that one needs a Guru for enlightenment. A very healthy person, holistically speaking, can attain enlightenment on his own with proper effort and minimal guidance. 

 

 However the learning and progress curve is greatly reduced by the grace and guidance of an enlightened sage, and one can then find time for other pursuits and interests and even excel in them. 

 

 The west has no concept of enlightenment or Buddhahood, and this is why such concepts seem strange over there.

 

[C T]

There are times when darkness can be an excellent teacher. 

 

There are also times where one needs to remove certain gurus in order to regain sanity and balance. 

 

Always question traditional rules, and retain clarity regarding dogmatic hogwash. 

[Cobie]

The vulnerable are often gullible. To exploit this is not ‘spiritual’.