Neem Karoli Baba shows Ram Dass the superficiality of drugs in comparison to the enlightened state

[Ajay0]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

The vulnerable are often gullible. To exploit this is not ‘spiritual’.  

 

 Well, what can I say ? 

 

I am glad that knights in shining armor like yourself, Nungali and Taoist Woods are there to protect the ladies from the bad guys. 

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

 Do you seriously think that a man who was equanimous and clear-minded even after taking a heavy dosage of drugs which would have made anyone else delirious or nuts or even dead with a heart attack, would be moved to lustful agitation by the presence of a woman !  

 

I think a man that needed to take   ( and IF he was a 'guru' and he took the drugs, he would not have done so unless he NEEDED to ) so many drugs  just might be moved by lustful agitation by the presence of a woman .

 

MANY a 'guru' has been moved lustfully by mere presence of a woman .  

 

For those unfamiliar with the dynamic , try this pop ( but now out of fashion ) book ;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_Cola

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, C T said:

Gullibility is the only thing older than the oldest profession. 

 

Some Iranian chap made himself up to be a Lionel Messi lookalike, deceiving 23 women into lustful soirees in the name of gullibility. 

 

But the question is... was it really deception when the whole premise of sleeping with a superstar footballer is based off a fantasy? 23 women fantasised about sex with Messi, and a pretender fantasised about bedding 23 women. Remember: cause and effect is never a linear thing. Similar personal, transactional & institutional dynamics play out in countless other situations, so don't be too quick to pass moral judgements. 

 

 

That is one view .

 

here is another ;

 

'Some guy' ( known to many around my parts ) ,  smashed his girl friends face in .  He spent some time in jail .   She left the area  but he returned when he got out , and went about trying to patch up his reputation .  Mostly women ... other women ...  now defend him in a weird way ;   a story went around ; " Oh ... so-and -so saw ...... ( the domestic assault victim )  in another town, she has a new boyfriend ... AND she had a black eye ! "  ... another  " AND  I heard she got into a fight with a previous boyfriend before she lived here and was battered " ......  they think  the woman   attracts it / has a proclivity towards it / 'asks' for it / etc etc .

 

JUST LIKE people defend molesting gurus !    .

 

and some even trained in bad karate ( )  to be body guards to defend sex guru ;

 

 

everyone got a red' orange gi, hakama  and belt !   .... cool !

 

 

 

 

My view :  Shame on him  (or anyone else ) that gets attracted to that type  ( IF it is a 'type ' )  in the first place !    I have been in a similar dynamic  with a wild '" I'll fight you  ! "  virtually over anything woman .  Fine ; here is your sword, here is mine - here are the rules, go for it .

 

Note: in case people didnt know ;  if you are a woman and lack feelings of motherhood and want to be held and nursed IN A WAY that also includes  sex .... there are professional sex workers that can help you with that .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

....

 

 The west has no concept of enlightenment or Buddhahood, and this is why such concepts seem strange over there.

 

 

All that comment does is just show your ignorance in the matter . 

 

also , your use of 'over there ' is interesting    

[Cobie]

@Ajay0 which country do you live?

 

 

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

 Well, what can I say ? 

 

I am glad that knights in shining armor like yourself, Nungali and Taoist Woods are there to protect the ladies from the bad guys. 

 

Thank you !

 

many a time a distraught woman , or more than one has come to my place asking me to 'go and sort out' some male out of control idiot  .  I will do that once ... and if they go back to him , thats it !  if they dont go back to him and he keeps it up .... its more like the man will then need protection from me .

 

Or even generally ... with the conditions of society being the difficulty - three times I have given my cabin over to new moms, with a  new born  baby , who where homeless and destitute .  can you imagine having a new born baby and being in that situation ?

 

Also I teach women's self defense .

 

I dont give a fuck anymore !  I know what this type understands .

 

My 'big burly' mate accompanied his friend to go and visit his daughters BF . he admits its his daughters faulkt in opart, but damn it , thats my daughter with a black eye !  So they go around , bang bang bang on the door ;   smack smack ... two black eyes :  " From now on, she gets a black eye , you get two , she gets a bruise , you get two "  - of course, the coward squealed 'I'll call; the police " .  he was told to go ahead .... maybe they will search the place and find your ice stash ."

 

Its all fine now ,  daughter doesnt get beaten up .

 

Now we get to the intersting part ... your sarc asm, on this particular issue .

 

 

Are we now supposed to think you DO NOT support the defense of women against violent raping men ???

 

What is your stand on this .... sarcasm , mocking  .,.,....   ? 

 

Do you think there is something wrong with this support ? 

 

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.xVxFdjGgjXGyUnRXa_bYOgHaGj%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=ba45e2143eccadd1031b566aef7b69fb95fcc8507236eb41eed9520c99703e77&ipo=images

 

 

and I am not just talking about supporting ... I am talking about putting yourself on the front line !

[Cobie]

12 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

… knights in shining armor …

I love “knights in shining armor”.  
 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Cobie

[dwai]

I’ve been following this discussion. Remember that we need to stay respectful.
 

 

Consider that the negative views about spiritual teachers can come due to various reasons that are far from the truth. 

[kakapo]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:02 AM, Ajay0 said:

In this article, Ram Dass ( Richard Alpert) described an experience he had when the enlightened Neem Karoli swallowed all his drugs in one go ...

 

https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/

 

 

 

 

I have smoked enough DMT to breakthrough, I passed through a tunnel that compressed my body, on the other side of the tunnel there were geometric, kaleidoscopic fractal entities that jumped into and out of my body, while communicating encyclopedia's worth of information.

 

Indeed this was a profound and life-changing experience for me.

 

That said, none of that even holds a candle to what I have experienced in meditation, not even a little bit.

 

That is not an exaggeration in the slightest.

 

If there was a way to force people to see this for themselves it would absolutely change the world.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by kakapo

[Cobie]

21 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Common sense is not synonymous with ignorance. …

 

I never said it was, the inference is all yours. I value common sense above all. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Cobie

[C T]

@Nungali

 

Have you considered that violence isn't just a gender thing? Of course you have. 

 

Better to address the real issue objectively.... like why certain people, men and women and those who'd rather not be genderised, just cannot help becoming vulnerable. And this includes those sad 'gurus', who, on a different level, are no less gullible. 

 

It's not just women who get violated. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by C T

[Ajay0]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I think a man that needed to take   ( and IF he was a 'guru' and he took the drugs, he would not have done so unless he NEEDED to ) so many drugs  just might be moved by lustful agitation by the presence of a woman .

 

 But he took the heavy dosage of drugs after understanding Ram Dass's interest in drugs, and to show him that it would not affect NKB in the least, as he was blissful by his own intrinsic enlightened state.

 

 It was a teaching, and not an acid trip.

[Ajay0]

7 hours ago, Cobie said:

@Ajay0 which country do you live?

 

 

 I live in India. 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, dwai said:

I’ve been following this discussion. Remember that we need to stay respectful.
 

 

Consider that the negative views about spiritual teachers can come due to various reasons that are far from the truth. 

 

Of course .

 

Then there is the 'other consideration' ... as we all know ( ? )  full well,  that sometimes , this DOES happen .

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, C T said:

@Nungali

 

Have you considered that violence isn't just a gender thing? Of course you have. 

 

Better to address the real issue objectively.... like why certain people, men and women and those who'd rather not be genderised, just cannot help becoming vulnerable. And this includes those sad 'gurus', who, on a different level, are no less gullible. 

 

It's not just women who get violated. 

 

Not only  " of course I have "  ....  I myself have been the attempted victim of such male bullying  at a very young age . I had top learn , although small young and physically weak , how to protect myself .

 

I do remember  once being violently  attacked by a woman  .... once  .  She was a large very butch  very out of it lesbian .

 

I have been attacked by other 'non butch' women ... but in a much better context ;

 

I asked Inga  if she was interested in martial arts , she said " Oh yeah .... I used to do wing chung ."

 

"  Really !  Excellent ! Let's have a go ."  We moved around a bit 'played' a but then .... smack !   Right upsdie me head ! "  

 

Inga : " Oh ! I am so sorry ... I got a bit carried away ."

 

And my ex ,   who I insisted learn some sword drill so I could have a practice partner .  Then after a while she starts scoring the ocassional point on me . "

 

But ,   I wonder if you have comopared the stats and numbers on men;'s violent assaults compared to the number of women that have done that ?

 

of course you have   

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, C T said:

@Nungali

 

Have you considered that violence isn't just a gender thing? Of course you have. 

 

Better to address the real issue objectively.... like why certain people, men and women and those who'd rather not be genderised, just cannot help becoming vulnerable. And this includes those sad 'gurus', who, on a different level, are no less gullible. 

 

It's not just women who get violated. 

 

I feel to address this separately .   I am  not unfamiliar with it .

 

Here is something for consideration  ( and  a few people, mostly women,  have said in response to me telling them this " Oh , I had not thought about that ."  )  ;

 

Statistically , more men  commit violent assaults and rapes than women do .  When they are in session  ( say in a 'women's group or a men's group ) when trying to process this a very different dynamic exists ;

 

In a women's group , the sex of the ( most common )  oppressor is not present  - hence a relatively 'safe' environment  for openness and sharing .

 

In a men's group , the sex of the ( most common ) oppressor is present  ..... maybe even the unknown guy next to you is one ?

 

It may not appeal to one rationally , yet it is , at least, an unconscious dynamic in play during such circumstances .

 

[EFreethought]

On 7/12/2023 at 8:35 PM, kakapo said:

 

I have smoked enough DMT to breakthrough, I passed through a tunnel that compressed my body, on the other side of the tunnel there were geometric, kaleidoscopic fractal entities that jumped into and out of my body, while communicating encyclopedia's worth of information.

 

Indeed this was a profound and life-changing experience for me.

 

That said, none of that even holds a candle to what I have experienced in meditation, not even a little bit.

 

That is not an exaggeration in the slightest.

 

If there was a way to force people to see this for themselves it would absolutely change the world.

 

 

What style of meditation do you do? I have not had any of those sort of experiences in meditation.

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, EFreethought said:

 

What style of meditation do you do? I have not had any of those sort of experiences in meditation.

 

 

Errrmmmm ..... he said  "  none of that even holds a candle to what I have experienced in meditation, not even a little bit."

 

maybe that is why you have not "  had any of those sort of experiences in meditation."   .... and neither has kakapo had those sort of experiences in meditation alone . 

 

Also .... if one knows what one is doing  

 

emphasis

 

if one knows what one is doing  

 

you will not have experiences you have   from psychedelic drugs and meditations like you have from meditations alone  - and visa versa .

 

[kakapo]

41 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Errrmmmm ..... he said  "  none of that even holds a candle to what I have experienced in meditation, not even a little bit."

 

maybe that is why you have not "  had any of those sort of experiences in meditation."   .... and neither has kakapo had those sort of experiences in meditation alone . 

 

Also .... if one knows what one is doing  

 

emphasis

 

if one knows what one is doing  

 

you will not have experiences you have   from psychedelic drugs and meditations like you have from meditations alone  - and visa versa .

 

 

They call DMT experiences hallucinations, because other people can't share your experience.

 

Would it be called a reverse hallucination when other people see what you are experiencing also?

 

If so I think reverse hallucination might be a good term for it.

 

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

Edited July 15, 2023 by kakapo

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

They call DMT experiences hallucinations, because other people can't share your experience.

 

Would it be called a reverse hallucination when other people see what you are experiencing also?

 

 

"They"  call that   'mass hallucination'  - thats the scientific explanation ( with no science behind it )   for things science cant explain  !   

 

If so I think reverse hallucination might be a good term for it.

 

   I like the term and will adopt it .... for something different :

 

like when something is right in someone else's face , others can see see it, but they refuse to ;

 

" Hey dude, you are having a reverse hallucination ! "  ...  love it !    

 

 

 

 

 

 

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

 

[kakapo]

On 7/14/2023 at 11:41 AM, EFreethought said:

 

What style of meditation do you do? I have not had any of those sort of experiences in meditation.

 

 

Sent you a PM.