St. George and the dragon

[Lairg]

 

 

Here is Set killing Apep

 

 

 

 

 Here is a Roman hunting scene with the bident spear

 

[oak]

Involuntarily visited Notre-Dame of Paris cathedral the past week and found this peculiar representation of St. Michael. Thought of sharing it.

 

[Lairg]

On occasion I have been given various inner plane implements including sword, trident and rod.

 

I store them in my spine - like a golf bag

 

Michael seems to be doing the same

 

 

[oak]

  On 3/17/2025 at 1:47 AM, Lairg said:

On occasion I have been given various inner plane implements including sword, trident and rod.

 

I store them in my spine - like a golf bag

 

Michael seems to be doing the same

 

 

 

Glad you could relate to the image 🙂

[Nungali]

...... even though it was by ' fantasy ego broadcasting  ' ,    

[rocala]

  On 7/13/2023 at 3:59 PM, oak said:

The Archangel Michael killing the dragon is a biblical theme. Not sure when or why in history the brits replaced him by St. George

I don't think they did. Prior to St George, it seems that St Theodore was a dragon killer. The switch appears to have origins in what is now Turkey.

I don't know about St Michael, is anyone suggesting there was only one dragon?

[oak]

  On 3/23/2025 at 2:00 PM, rocala said:

I don't think they did. Prior to St George, it seems that St Theodore was a dragon killer. The switch appears to have origins in what is now Turkey.

I don't know about St Michael, is anyone suggesting there was only one dragon?

 

Maybe you're right. Doesn't really matter to me. I'm interested in the simbology of Michael defeating the dragon, that's all 🙂

[Lairg]

  On 3/23/2025 at 8:18 PM, oak said:

I'm interested in the simbology of Michael defeating the dragon

 

If I recall correctly in one version Michael tamed the dragon and led it through the marketplace.   

 

I wonder if the dragon symbolizes the human persona - that needs to be trained before it is taken out in public

 

 

[oak]

  On 3/23/2025 at 8:36 PM, Lairg said:

 

If I recall correctly in one version Michael tamed the dragon and led it through the marketplace.   

 

I wonder if the dragon symbolizes the human persona - that needs to be trained before it is taken out in public

 

 

 

Didn't know that one. Good luck with taming your dragon 🙂

[Nungali]

  On 3/23/2025 at 8:36 PM, Lairg said:

 

If I recall correctly in one version Michael tamed the dragon and led it through the marketplace.   

 

I wonder if the dragon symbolizes the human persona - that needs to be trained before it is taken out in public

 

 

 

It is the 'eros' of the Knights 'agape'  that the Knight must 'triumph over'  .

 

Check the numerous classical images , often there is a bound maiden nearby .  . .  sometimes hard to spot 

 

 

and sometimes bound or even naked . 

 

There is a classic painting of St George leading a huge ferocious looking dragon , with collar and lead , like a complacent dog , through the town, but I cant seem to find a copy of it . 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

  On 3/23/2025 at 9:17 PM, oak said:

 

Didn't know that one. Good luck with taming your dragon 🙂

 

Its the wild untamed 'western dragon' ... not like the   'lucky eastern dragon' .  

 

Although if your dragon is tamed out in public , it may attract a maiden . Then behavior must be regulated with the utmost  valor and decorum ..... love is permissible, but certainly not lust !    

 

That comes later ,   when the ' tamed '   dragon is able to entice the maiden to its lair .

[Apech]

  On 3/23/2025 at 10:53 PM, Nungali said:

 

Its the wild untamed 'western dragon' ... not like the   'lucky eastern dragon' .  

 

Although if your dragon is tamed out in public , it may attract a maiden . Then behavior must be regulated with the utmost  valor and decorum ..... love is permissible, but certainly not lust !    

 

That comes later ,   when the ' tamed '   dragon is able to entice the maiden to its lair .

I think we might understand all the figures in the scene as being aspects of the Self.  Even the cave which must have what I might call yoni relevance.  I think if you can relate the struggle to your spiritual journey in that way it might begin to make sense.

 

 

[Nungali]

To the modern person perhaps , but to Ye Olde Medieval Knight  it worked differently ; 

 

One may admire , honor and respect a beautiful maiden of  good class ... even have love and devotion  for and 'dedicate' yourself to her . But its all  lute and oratory .   To bring sex into the picture would be ..... 'unthinkable' (or at least deny that you are thinking that ) . 

 

This is because the maiden is a symbol of absolute purity ... that is until some other guy  takes her fancy .

 

Then you have two choices ;  to 'protect her honor' in  a joust .... or lose out .  

 

If you choose the first option , you have two more choices ; beat the other suitor  and gain the scorn of the maiden , then she  will feel sorry for the defeated and injured ... and you will be a brute .   Or loose ... and the other will be a hero and the maiden run off with him . 

 

 

Hey ... wait a minute  ......  have things changed that much  now  ?  

 

 

 

"Fear not helpless maiden, whilst thou art in my arms  ..... "

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

What really intrigues me is all those medieval manuscripts dedicated to knights fighting snails.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes the knight gives up without a fight though and begs the snail for mercy

 

 

And occasionally the snail shells are inhabited by entirely unlikely animals

 

 

 

Edited March 24 by Taomeow

[Sanity Check]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:31 AM, Taomeow said:

What really intrigues me is all those medieval manuscripts dedicated to knights fighting snails.  

 

 

Snail Pest

Written By: Adam Atwood | February 23, 2024

 

 

Snails invade crops or gardens.

In 1966, a boy sneaked three Giant African snails (Achatina fulica) from Hawaii to South Florida in the United States. The boy’s grandmother eventually released the snails in her garden, and seven years later the mollusks had created about 18,000 adult snails and thousands of eggs, which by then was a plague of enormous proportions. In total, the child’s mischief cost about 1 million dollars and ten years to eradicate from Florida.

Snails reproduce with relative ease. They eat almost anything organic, and a single individual can have hundreds of offspring each year. So when the population rises to excessive levels and begins to affect humans or other animals, it becomes a problem.

 

https://snail-world.com/snail-pest/

[Nungali]

Yeah, first thing I thought when looking at the pictures . Anyone that has tried a large garden of veggies will understand . 

 

And the little buggers have their own armor ! 

 

First you need  to clear the ground around your  castle , so they don't have cover as they approach .    The warfare is relentless and the rules of the Geneva Convention are thrown away ; poison might be used .

 

One insidious and underhanded method is to put little taverns around offering free beer .  These can be made by using the cut off bottoms of a 2lt and a 1 lt  milk  plastic container . The  smaller one sits inside the bigger one holding the free beer . The bigger one sits  over the small one to keep the rain out , it has doors cut on all sides with the flap up as a door 'awning' , again to keep the rain out . They drink, drunk, dunk, drown . 

 

For those that want to manage a mini-ecosystem , install a ferocious snail eating blue tongued  dragon ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

'' Who's a good boy , then . " 

 

[Taomeow]

  On 3/24/2025 at 11:01 PM, Nungali said:

 

For those that want to manage a mini-ecosystem , install a ferocious snail eating blue tongued  dragon ;

 

 

 

Or better yet, a French chef.

[Compendium]

  On 7/13/2023 at 10:47 AM, Apech said:

 

Why must the knight slay the dragon and rescue the damsel?  And while you're at it what is that cave doing there?

Unravel the symbolism.

Let us try.

 

It is based on an old (often misinterpreted) piece of wisdom taught within the ancient mystery schools:

 

"Blessed in the man who consumes the beast within, so the beast becomes man. Cursed is the man that the beast cosume, so the man becomes beast"

 

A version of this is found in the Gospel of Thomas. Except it, like the majority of the Gospel of Thomas, has been horribly mistranslated:

 

7. Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

 

It is about man (meaning mankind, male and female) overcoming their base primal instincts

 

It is one of the first stages of the process of initiation within the ancient mystery schools

 

In my tradition, they refer to this as "self-regulation" and it is a condition of being accepted as an initiate

 

"Self-regulation" is similar to what is described as the "40 days in the desert" in the Bible

 

In other historical texts, it is described as a period when famous initiates of the mystery schools "went to live in a cave", or "disappeared from the records for a few years"

 

In this process, we are made to withdraw from the world to the most extreme extent possible. To see if we are able to do so

 

The initial test is 40 days, and you have to give up everything and everyone

 

You are not allowed to see anyone. You are not allowed to go anywhere, unless it is unavoidable (buying food, etc)

 

You are not allowed to drink, smoke, do drugs

 

Any and all types of addictions or vices. Even coffee and sugar

 

If you can avoid you it, you are to cut off communication with the world completely. Talk to nobody. No sex. Nothing

 

The idea is to see if you are able to give everything up

 

Because later in the initiation process, you may very well lose everything and everyone you love. In order to make it impossible for such things to be used against you, to manipulate, coerce or control you

 

Even if it means sacrificing your wife, child, or even yourself, rather than be controlled

 

To begin with, you are tested to see if you can control your primal urges, addictions and vices. For a short period (40 days and nights)

 

More so, it is a test to see if you can emotionally regulate and balance yourself whilst isolated and deprived

 

This is the basis of the man consuming the beast within (slaying the Dragon)

 

This conditions you, to later being incorruptible, blameless and virtuous in you pursuits as an initiate of the mysteries

 

The later gateways of the mysteries to towards becoming what is referred to as one of the "illuminated" are designed to destroy those who attempt to seek them without a heart that is light as a feather, as in the Egyptian book of the dead (correct title "book of Illumination") which is actually a process you go through whilst you are alive, not when you die as is believed

 

The Cave represents internalisation. As with "initiation" meaning "To go into"

 

Opposite of this is the spiral cloud, which represents externalisation, referred to within the mysteries as "ascension", meaning "to go out from"

 

Scientifically today, we would correlate the internal "Dragon" to our internal layer primal "reptilian" brain

 

Overcome by the intelligence and civility of the outer externalised layers of the brain

 

The maiden represents the Meridian (Mary) which is the carrying forth of one torus/sphere of the philosophers stone to the other, in the same way that layered torus (Taurus, Horus, Torah) propagate within the processes of creation

 

Like the layers of all known creation. They get smaller, denser and more complex, exactly equal and opposite to them getting larger and opening, expanding outwards

 

This is "Initiation" and "Ascension"

 

The Meridian is the pathway of creation, which carries across the centre of the torus, throughout every layer, internal and external

 

Within the aspect of the knight and the dragon, it represents the "reason" for all that we do

 

Why should we go through all the effort to consume the beast within?

 

Because there is beauty within this world worth protecting

 

The maiden is a metaphor for the experience of everything that is beautiful

 

It is choosing LOVE over PAIN

 

It is choosing CREATION over DECAY

 

A simplified metaphor would be "the carrot on the stick" that keeps the animal moving forwards

 

The essence within the lesson, is to understand our potential for CREATION is equal to that of our potential for DECAY and destruction

 

It is easy for the man to become the beast

 

It is much harder for the beast to become the man

 

Such is the purpose of the mystery schools

 

To live ignorant within the mysteries is easy enough

 

Easy paths and religion are offered free and easy. They take no effort

 

The path of the illuminated is much harder

 

It needs be earned through sacrificing whatever is necessary. Everything and everyone you love, even if it means theirs or your own life

 

Because true understanding (the understanding of "self") can only come through experience

 

As with what you find with many people in forums such as this, they are well read on many things and have vast amounts of knowledge ... But without any real or true understanding of the things they think they know

 

Because they lack the experience

 

They are like people who may have seen a dragon or two slain, to know how it is done, but they have never done it themselves

 

A good example would be Australian Aboriginal culture, where the uninitiated are never supposed to speak on the rites, processes and things they have not personally been through and experienced themselves

 

In context of St George, they are still beasts. Not yet man

 

They have not traversed the dimensions in order to be able to perceive them

 

Hope this helps

Edited 17 hours ago by Compendium
Corrected mistake

[Lairg]

Notice that the maiden (the soul or perhaps a grail maiden) is on the other side of the dragon.

 

The dragon must be dealt with before approaching the soul or the grail

 

 

[Compendium]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:31 AM, Taomeow said:

What really intrigues me is all those medieval manuscripts dedicated to knights fighting snails.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes the knight gives up without a fight though and begs the snail for mercy

 

 

And occasionally the snail shells are inhabited by entirely unlikely animals

 

 

 

 

Snails symbolised DECAY. The opposite of CREATION, which therefore made them (symbolically) the enemy of progress

 

They symbolised corruption within an ancient kingdom or society. Societies whose strength was measured and defined by their means within things such as agriculture

 

The more abundant the food supply, the happier and healthier the people, and the stronger a kingdom or society was considered to be

 

However, the symbolism extended to the more broad concept of corruption or decay within the governing systems

 

They could indicate infiltration of the lands by outside forces, or corruption within the government bodies. Or simple civil unrest needing to be policed

 

A good example of the importance of agriculture in defining a kingdom or society is the Egyptian sedge and bee

 

The hieroglyphs for the sedge and bee 𓆥 are commonly said to mean "upper and lower Egypt', being described as prenomen for nobility or Pharoah

 

However within my tradition, we are taught to understand different translations for things such as Egyptian hieroglyphs, Sumerian cuneiform, as well as many other languages. The systems and meaning of symbols which formed the numbers and letters of modern language

 

In our translations, the closest modern translation for the sedge and bee 𓆥 in English would be "To sew, to reap"

 

From which, we get the modern saying "to reap what you sew"

 

Although the word for "bee" in Egyptian actually translates to something closer to "bite". In the sense of consuming

 

The sedge is the sewing of seed

The bee is the consuming and harvest

 

Without the sedge, the "bite" would be read with a meaning closer to "sting". Depending on its context, it could mean to very literally be bitten, or it could mean to be taken advantage of, or exploited

 

At its base, it is to CONSUME

 

We grow, we consume. We sew, we reap

 

Upper and lower Egypt

 

Upper Egypt (𓇓 Gardiner M23) "raises" or grows the kingdoms resources

 

Lower Egypt (𓆤 L2) "lowers" or consumes the kingdoms resources

 

The "bread bun" semi-circle hieroglyph, that looks like a rising sun, used for the letter "T", actually means "to". As in the process of moving towards

 

The opposite with the semi-circle downwards like a bowl, means "from"

 

With a handle, it means "come from", as in offering. Close to the commonly accepted translation, but not quite the same

 

When you see a semi-circle like a rising sun "to" with a line under it, this means "Unto"

 

As the horizontal line means limitation, such as source, or destination, depending on how and where it is used

 

When you see "unto" combined with a wavey snake moving from lower (under "unto") to higher, this is "Unto the"

 

Used most commonly in the sense of designating a topic, or specific target audience for what is about to be written. Which is the it is nearly always seen at the start of texts

 

These 3 symbols combined, are one in the same, including the meaning, as the 3 parts of the Om symbol

 

They are also the dimensional foundation of degrees within the mysteries. Including degrees used by those like the Freemasons

 

Much of the accepted hieroglyphic translations are badly understood compared to what we are taught going through the Osirian mysteries (rites of Isis)

 

The translations are generally fairly close. But there is enough confusion that the real meaning behind the texts has been completely lost

 

It is much the same with the Sumerian and Norse traditions. As well as the Biblical Hebrew and Greek
 

As well as the Eleusinian mysteries. The stories such as those of Demeter are actually base concepts of geometry and biology

 

Demeter actually means "Dimension"

 

In the Bible, "Daniel" is "Dimension". As is the "book of Daniel" actually the "book of dimensions"

Edited 5 hours ago by Compendium
Added more context

[S:C]

So the snails symbolize given ‘slack‘ in the Knight, he gives himself too much leeway, gains a few pounds and closes an eye from time to time? Lethargy, inactivity, lack of tension. Must the knight always be on guard? Can’t he play the lute from time to time and eat some grapes? 🍇 Extremes (in any ways) are not beneficial, even if discipline might?