ABC News anchor credits meditation and mindfulness with recovery from drug addiction

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 

I have come across people in cold climatic conditions in India, who were smoking to keep themselves warm.  I was mostly into hot soups for the same.

 

 

I would ask the same of you. 

>No u

 

the pinnacle of debate 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Anyways this is becoming a huge waste of time and is going nowhere.

 

All the best to you I hope to never post on one of these threads again.

[Neirong]

1 hour ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Shirdi Sai Baba and Bharat Thakur used hookah and cigars to relax or probably to keep themselves warm.  Both had lived in cold climates and hard conditions in India,  ( Thakur grew up in the Himalayas in sub-zero temperatures )and probably smoked to keep themselves warm or to relax. These are exceptions I know. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ajay0 said:

 I stated that drugs and alcohol are not a problem for enlightened masters or accomplished yogis. There were some who took it in exceptional circumstances , just like Neem Karoli Baba took a heavy dosage of drugs to convince Ram  Dass of its superficiality. 

 

It is an obvious problem for untrained minds though as I have shown in my threads on the subject. 

 

One of the major issues in society as a whole across the globe, is that some people are more priveleged than others.
 

The root of this problem lies in the supporters who rationalize any misdeeds committed by their idols. By doing so, they inadvertently enable evil actions. It is important to acknowledge that the source of malevolence does not stem from drugs, but rather from individuals themselves. Regardless of the labels bestowed upon them, be it gurus, enlightened sages, or other grand titles, this practice elevates certain individuals above others, granting them impunity to commit heinous acts while turning a blind eye to their atrocities.
 

Over the course of hundreds of years, Indian culture has been notorious for perpetuating such phenomena. People with popularity, wealth, and influence seem immune to legal consequences for their actions. Even as they engage in activities involving arms and drug trade, organized crime, deforestation, or slavery, they find a market for their books and seminars, with many worshipping them as holy men or godly figures.
 

While you are spamming the forum about "children, drugs are bad, mkay", you are missing the bigger picture, where you enable "holyman" to take drugs without consequences and enable a much bigger evil, blaming all on common people who don't have any influence.

[C T]

@Ajay0  appreciate the replies.

 

It seems like you're saying its okay for some gurus, exposed to certain harsh conditions, to partake of stimulants/relaxants, but not okay for everyday folks, also exposed to harsh conditions, to partake of same? 

 

 

[Bhathen]

Came across this discussion. The link provided is for the book "Aghora" with a chapter on intoxicants.

 

https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/55504/why-do-ascetic-devotees-of-shiva-smoke-weeds

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Well, I know of yogis who have taken drugs and alcohol in large quantities without being the least affected or loss of sobriety. 

 

They did not develop cravings for the same,  or lose their mental clarity. 

 

But this is not the norm for general humanity, for whom the chances for addiction, anti-social behavior, poor physical and mental health and other issues is high. 

 

 

Well, there are yogis like Shirdi Sai Baba and Bharat Thakur who smoked hookah and cigars to relax without any of the negative benefits. They were perfectly okay if they did not have the same.

 

Yogis smoke hookas ..... 'to relax'  

 

OHHHHHH !  

 

well, thats okay then .

 

 

 

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Cannabis is the only drug sanctioned in certain sects of Hinduism connected with Shaivism.  It is also associated with lower addiction levels compared to alcohol and nicotine.  

 

It can help as an aid to meditation in certain settings, and provided it is supplemented by meditation and hard austerities. This is the doctrine followed by Naga Sadhus, but what do westerners have for the same ! 

 

Exo-psychology . if you had an open mind and where attentive to the answers already given to you and did minimal follow up yourself, you would realise this question has already been answered for you .

 

 

 

They do not have any holistic theological doctrine for which the drug becomes a stepping stone rather than an obstacle. 

 

 

I am sorry but this comment above is made in ignorance . Again I cite exo-psychology, which covers not just the use of marijuana  but all psycho active drugs .  way back it was used as therapy for difficult cases , unreformed prisoners who consistently committed violent crimes . Exo psychology is all about reprogramming , it is an holistic theological (in its own right) doctrine and is used as a stepping stone on the way to recovery for a whole variety of problems , not an obstacle and not an aim in itself .

 

It seems westerners are not the only ones that make uninformed observations about their opposite hemisphere ? 

 

Even snake venom has therapeutic properties when it is properly used , and it is in this manner that the Naga sadhus use cannabis. 

 

Therapeutic cannabis is rather big in the west too , in case you have not noticed .  Its good for arthritis .... maybe thats why sadhus smoke it , to relieve the pain from holding your arm straight up and pointing at the sky constantly ?

 

 

Well, they have my sympathies. 

 

But it is hard to meditate and be aware or mindful, when your mind is filled with cravings for drugs, and without the necessary yama niyamas ( rules and regulations attending meditation practice).

 

Of course ... the same applies to both east and west .  Some people take psycho actives to 'get into it' , understand themselves , be a psychonaut ....  others take it to  ' get out of it' , escape 'drop out of life'  etc .

 

 

 

Lol. 

 

Advaitan and vedic philosophies are time-tested philosophies milleniums old. 

 

Yet their 'masters' talk about alcohol, marijuana  and other drugs all together , showing they know little of this science and their effects on the human holistic organism .

 

 

16 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Many ancient, medieval and modern enlightened masters around the world have testified to the validity of these philosophies from the vantage point of enlightenment. 

 

Sure , but  not psychoactives .

 

 

 

 

 

The state of enlightenment is beyond all psychological states. That is why western psychology still does not have a clue on how to treat depression effectively because they are stuck in the mind and psychology. It is like a gardener tending to the branches and leaves instead of the roots. 

 

Some western psychology does have a clue  . Agreed , most doesnt , and hands out more drugs , by whose action 'mania' increases .  However this may change ; certain porogramms are in place that deal with a few factors that are turning around depression (and related suicide) in some communities - but this is part of the formula . other parts exist elsewhere, but this fractured .

 

recent writings on 'worth of life' coupled with those on Eudamonia ( a psychological condition caused by a suite of these seemingly disparate factors, that are now being collated as one cause , instead of spread all over the place  in different approaches and programs as factors of help ) .  Hopefully some genius will come along ( that the system takes note of ) and collate the whole thing together  as this does address  'the roots' of the problem .

 

 

 

 

Tao Te Ching, Dhammapada , Upanishads were created by enlightened masters who were able to perceive existence from the vantage point of enlightenment.

 

 

Anandamayi Ma and Shivayogini Matha did not receive much education beyond the third or fourth grade in those times. But after enlightenment, they attained wisdom and knowledge through experiential understanding and communicated the same.

 

Yes, we can tell the truth of a matter if it is everywhere present in other philosophies and evident in nature ; the observant will, if absorbed in nature , observe that , and the teachings , writings and philosophies supply confirmation of one's own gnosis . .

 

They did not spend any effort in attaining intellectual understanding, but they were more wiser and knowledgeable than the scholars and pundits around who used to come in large numbers to learn from them and clarify their own doubts.

 

An analogy is that of successfully climbing to the summit of the mountain.  You can then see the view clearly instead of relying on written accounts of the same.  This is why the sayings of these enlightened sages are quite similar even though they may be placed in different points in space and time. 

 

and this applies to some westerners as well    

 

 

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, C T said:

@Ajay0 the 2 yogis you mentioned above that smoke hookah and cigars to relax... are you sure about this? In your opinion,  enlightened masters are above and beyond laymen's frailties around substances... but here you're saying those 2 esteemed gurus are somehow, in their 'clean' state, prone to agitations that require external relaxation downers? Do you know if they would've encouraged their student followers to do likewise?

 

 

 

 

Now now .... dont hassle Sai Baba

 

the only treason he smoked all those cigars is he needed the ash  for 'Vibhuti'  ....

 

 

 

 

 

.

(Sai Baba ' in joke ' ) 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Nungali

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Shirdi Sai Baba and Bharat Thakur used hookah and cigars to relax or probably to keep themselves warm.  Both had lived in cold climates and hard conditions in India,  ( Thakur grew up in the Himalayas in sub-zero temperatures )and probably smoked to keep themselves warm or to relax. These are exceptions I know. 

 

 

 It was not inner agitation, but probably need for physical relaxation or warmth that resulted in the same.  They have not encouraged their students to do the same.  

 

So they where not like the dope smoking gurus that could walk naked in the snow that you talked about .

 

 walking naked in snow .... do you have quicksand in India ?

 

It appears the more you go on .... the deeper you sink in it .

 

Note to the cold Baba s   - if you are cold , you are better off setting fire to some wood in a little pile or a fire place .... instead of a cigar .

 

  

Edited July 22, 2023 by Nungali

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, silent thunder said:

ack ackack ackack

ackack ackack ackackack

ackackack ack ack

 

Thats the Sai Baba mantra .... done after smoking too many cigars .

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

I have come across people in cold climatic conditions in India, who were smoking to keep themselves warm.  I was mostly into hot soups for the same.

 

You smoked soup ???  

 

Thats pretty far out man .

 

 

I would ask the same of you. 

 

Now you want him to smoke soup too ?

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

>No u

 

the pinnacle of debate 

 

I love debating with Indians !  They have a unique 'logic' and form of argument .  I have not encountered it anywhere else .