Unpopular Opinions

[doc benway]

21 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Where can I buy the hat?

 

China

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

if "Tao in the human world was destroyed" then all would turn to less than dust in an instant, so I call bullshit on such a cynical proclamation.

 

I didn't find the Yuandao, Wenzi and Laozi cynical.  Nor the taoist concept of "eating bitter" (吃苦 - chi ku). 

Of course there's always plenty of more popular opinions, derived from Hollywood et al. 

 

    

 

And here's a version of that "spoonful of sugar" I find a whole lot less cynical than the original, and a whole lot more accurate.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

thats impressive. but to what end?

 

 

My best guess would be, that was part of culture to them.  I suspect (and, no one will believe me and I can't provide any proof but I also, on some level, remember) that they modeled their culture on nature/tao, and that's how nature/tao keep records -- memory is the most sacred thing there is to them, memory embodied -- genealogical information is internal, DNA and stuff, and it's kept, all of it.  In the human world where there's language, oral transmissions are perhaps the epigenetic part of this internalized memory, though who's to say other life forms don't have languages of this "cultural" kind we simply don't understand?  Among domestic cats, more than half are unable to catch mice if they were separated from mom too early, instincts alone don't cut it.  If they were raised by mother cat, pretty much all of them later know how to hunt, regardless of whether they had live demos.  So maybe mother cat tells them somehow?  "You are a cat, and if you see such and such creature, that's prey, and it's edible.  That's our legacy.  Your ancestors lived like that for millions of years so you can too."  Might be a stretch of course...       

[Miffymog]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

My best guess would be, that was part of culture to them.  I suspect (and, no one will believe me and I can't provide any proof but I also, on some level, remember) that they modeled their culture on nature/tao, and that's how nature/tao keep records -- memory is the most sacred thing there is to them, memory embodied -- genealogical information is internal, DNA and stuff, and it's kept, all of it.  In the human world where there's language, oral transmissions are perhaps the epigenetic part of this internalized memory, though who's to say other life forms don't have languages of this "cultural" kind we simply don't understand?  Among domestic cats, more than half are unable to catch mice if they were separated from mom too early, instincts alone don't cut it.  If they were raised by mother cat, pretty much all of them later know how to hunt, regardless of whether they had live demos.  So maybe mother cat tells them somehow?  "You are a cat, and if you see such and such creature, that's prey, and it's edible.  That's our legacy.  Your ancestors lived like that for millions of years so you can too."  Might be a stretch of course...       

 

I remember reading somewhere that if you asked a Westerner

who they were or how they defined themselves, they would nearly always answer that question with what their job or profession was.

 

But if you asked an African, they were more likely to define themselves by who they were related to (Who/what are you? - I'm so and so's cousin/brother/sister).

 

I'm trying to redefine myself in my own mind in these terms, but I'm not quite there yet

Edited July 28, 2023 by Miffymog

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Minnesota Dairy Goat Association?

 

https://www.acronymfinder.com/MDGA.html

 

it is unimaginable that somebody's first guess would be that. instead of this

MDGA	Miniature Dairy Goat Association (Corvallis, Oregon)   2 hours ago, Apech said:   The goats will be disapointed.   yes the miniature ones. in you. (sigh)

[Taomeow]

34 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

 

I remember reading somewhere that if you asked a Westerner

who they were or how they defined themselves, they would nearly always answer that question with what their job or profession was.

 

But if you asked an African, they were more likely to define themselves by who they were related to (Who/what are you? - I'm so and so's cousin/brother/sister).

 

I'm trying to redefine myself in my own mind in these terms, but I'm not quite there yet

 

In my childhood in a "backward" country, that's how kids used to find out about who other kids were: "Who is she/he friends with?" was the question when someone's name was brought up and someone else didn't know that person.  Once the circle of friends was named, the understanding of who they're dealing with in that person would start shaping up immediately. 

 

Even today, I'm in touch with some of the people I went to kindergarten and elementary school with, some of whom stayed put right where I first met them while others are all over the globe by now.  Not that we have much in common today except for the memories of the days/years long gone, but we all like to reminisce about those times on occasion -- and when someone asks, "remember how such and such did this and that?" the response often is, "no, I can't place that girl/boy -- who were they friends with?"  So then you name the friends -- and the person in question is often immediately identified.  "Ah...  that's right, now I remember her/him."   And other memories jump on the bandwagon and start unfolding. 

 

I love it.  There's something genuine in those exchanges. 

    

Edited July 28, 2023 by Taomeow

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Your ancestors lived like that for millions of years so you can too.

yeah. i have no clue what they are thinking. this is what mine does when i work

 

[Apech]

45 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yeah. i have no clue what they are thinking. this is what mine does when i work

 

 

What!  Your human plays with a mouse while you work!

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I didn't find the Yuandao, Wenzi and Laozi cynical.  Nor the taoist concept of "eating bitter" (吃苦 - chi ku). 

Of course there's always plenty of more popular opinions, derived from Hollywood et al. 

 

And here's a version of that "spoonful of sugar" I find a whole lot less cynical than the original, and a whole lot more accurate.

 

 

T.T.C. Chapter 21. (not from hollywood or bollywood)

 

"THERE was Something undefined and yet complete in itself,
Born before Heaven-and-Earth.
Silent and boundless,
Standing alone without change,
Yet pervading all without fail..."

 

"Tao" can not be destroyed in the human world nor any other, if so then no one would be around to give opinions.

(that includes during the Kali yuga with a drastic lessening of dharma in effect if that is what you are getting at?)

Edited July 28, 2023 by old3bob

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie

[old3bob]

4 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

This line is not in the Guodian DDJ.

 

~~~

25 

又状虫成， 
先天地生， 
敚[糸禾]， 
独立而不亥， 
可以为天下母。 
未智（知）其名， 
字之曰道。 

 

There is a form that developed from primordial chaos 
That was born before heaven and earth. 
Silent and still, it stands on its own and does not change. 
... 
It can be regarded as the mother of all under heaven. 
Not yet knowing its name, 
We refer to it as the Dao. 

Were I forced to give it a name, I'd call it the Great. 

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html#Kap25 

 

 

yea there are multiple interpretations, even including materialistic ones that deny spirituality, and which can be debated forever,  but the import is there if one is fortunate enough to have to come upon understanding.

Edited July 28, 2023 by old3bob

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Apech]

5 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Enlightenment is realising there’s nothing "spiritually" meaningful to be accomplished. 
 

 

sounds a little nihilistic

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Miffymog said:

 

I remember reading somewhere that if you asked a Westerner

who they were or how they defined themselves, they would nearly always answer that question with what their job or profession was.

 

Jeeze I hate that !  .... at a party , or whatever ;  " ... and what do you do ? " 

 

One time I was  pretty fed up with that -  talking to  two  rather 'stuck up' women ;  " And what do you do ?"

"  Me ?  Oh .... I'm a male model ."

"You ! ?  What sort of model ? "

" Well, you know how they have those sex dolls ?  Well, they wanted to make a  male version and they used my body for the mold ."

....  the looks I got !    

 

 

 

 

But if you asked an African, they were more likely to define themselves by who they were related to (Who/what are you? - I'm so and so's cousin/brother/sister).

 

Here I have seen the indigenous version of the question ;   What country you from ?  ( In Australia that is , we used to have  a few different ' countries' across the continent  ) . What tribe you from?  Who is your God ? What is your totem ?  ... and then  the family connections .

 

I'm trying to redefine myself in my own mind in these terms, but I'm not quite there yet

 

Try defining yourself  in  regard to the 'special mission'  your present incarnation is on ( or seeking ) .

 

 

or , you could go ' Led Zep ' abstract     " I am a traveler of both  time and space .....  to be where I have been ... "

( 'Kashmir' )

 

[Nungali]

26 minutes ago, Apech said:

sounds a little nihilistic

 

I thought you wanted UNPOPULAR opinions ? 

 

 

 

So ... to you I present .....

 

my whole posting history .

[Nungali]

But I am more a fan of unpopular acts .....

 

like wearing my new BBQ apron when I put on a lunch for my  GFs   father    ( who is the local   Freemason 'Lodge  Master' )

 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

so what is your sun and moon sign, also your ascendant, oh I knew that  just by looking at you and us talking for a few minutes, tough luck but we are not compatible.... you stinging double Scorpio.  

(but at least I know where you stand)

Edited July 29, 2023 by old3bob

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

But I am more a fan of unpopular acts .....

 

like wearing my new BBQ apron when I put on a lunch for my  GFs   father    ( who is the local   Freemason 'Lodge  Master' )

 

 

 

 

 

 If that guy in the apron was really you, I'd love to perform an unpopular act.  

Edited July 29, 2023 by Taomeow

[oak]

Books are living things!

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

Your answer tells me you do not understand what the Guodian is. 
 

 

so we have an expert, good luck with that...

 

"Debates concerning the original composition and transmission of the "Laozi" have been stimulated by the recent discovery at Guodian of late fourth-century-B.C. bamboo-strip manuscripts composed entirely of textual material found in the received text of the "Laozi". Edward L. Shaughnessy shows that, although the archaeological finds are new, the issues they raise were first debated in China in the 1920s. Tracing discussions of the "Laozi" over the course of the twentieth century, Shaughnessy suggests that now, as in the past, political, institutional, and intellectual agendas shape the debates. He cautions against premature conclusions based on the new finds. Although the Guodian "Laozi" manuscripts do not resolve issues about transmission, some evidence suggests that the Guodian manuscripts drew from an already existing text with more or less the same sequence of chapters as the received "Laozi"."

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

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Edited July 29, 2023 by Cobie