Interesting commentary on the eight fold path...

[Ajay0]

Going through a buddhist theravada website, I found the following explanation of the eight fold path, which I found useful and insightful...

 

https://www.sangha.ee/buddha-s-teaching/noble-eightfold-path

 

Quote

The Eightfold Path is best understood as a collection of personal qualities to be developed, rather than as a sequence of steps along a linear path. The development of right view and right resolve (the factors classically identified with wisdom and discernment) facilitates the development of right speech, action, and livelihood (the factors identified with virtue).

 

 As virtue develops so do the factors identified with concentration (right effort, mindfulness, and concentration). Likewise, as concentration matures, discernment evolves to a still deeper level. And so the process unfolds: development of one factor fosters development of the next, lifting the practitioner in an upward spiral of spiritual maturity that eventually culminates in Awakening.

 

 Would this prioritize right view and right resolve over the others as the rest such as right action, speech and livelihood would follow in their wake !

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Ajay0

[C T]

Bikkhu Bodhi: 

"Right view is the forerunner of the entire path, the guide for all the other factors. It enables us to understand our starting point, our destination, and the successive landmarks to pass as practice advances. To attempt to engage in the practice without a foundation of right view is to risk getting lost in the futility of undirected movement. Doing so might be compared to wanting to drive someplace without consulting a roadmap or listening to the suggestions of an experienced driver. One might get into the car and start to drive, but rather than approaching closer to one's destination, one is more likely to move farther away from it. To arrive at the desired place one has to have some idea of its general direction and of the roads leading to it. Analogous considerations apply to the practice of the path, which takes place in a framework of understanding established by right view.

 

The importance of right view can be gauged from the fact that our perspectives on the crucial issues of reality and value have a bearing that goes beyond mere theoretical convictions. They govern our attitudes, our actions, our whole orientation to existence. Our views might not be clearly formulated in our mind; we might have only a hazy conceptual grasp of our beliefs. But whether formulated or not, expressed or maintained in silence, these views have a far-reaching influence. They structure our perceptions, order our values, crystallize into the ideational framework through which we interpret to ourselves the meaning of our being in the world."

[C T]

Right view is twofold: superior and mundane. Mundane Right view is guided by knowledge of kamma. 

 

Superior Right view is guided by insight, arising as... 

[Ajay0]

 

Buddha seems to prioritize right view in the Sammādiṭṭhi Sutta...

 

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-ditthi/index.html#:~:text="One tries to abandon wrong,%26 circle around right view."

 

Quote

 

"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." — MN 117

 

 

He also elaborates on the consequences of wrong view...

 

 

 

Quote

 

"In a person of wrong view, wrong resolve comes into being. In a person of wrong resolve, wrong speech. In a person of wrong speech, wrong action. In a person of wrong action, wrong livelihood. In a person of wrong livelihood, wrong effort. In a person of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness. In a person of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration. In a person of wrong concentration, wrong knowledge. In a person of wrong knowledge, wrong release."This is how from wrongness comes failure, not success." — AN 10.103

 

 

 

[Ajay0]

 

Views and perspectives in life  also seems to be correlated with corresponding belief structures...

 

https://trustinginbuddha.co.uk/buddha-quotes-in-context-dhammapada-1-19-20/

 

Quote

 

The importance of right view is obvious when we consider how our beliefs (i.e. perceptions, ideas and opinions) shape our experience of life. Our beliefs might be well-formulated or half-baked. We might not fully understand our beliefs or even be aware that we have them. Nonetheless, our beliefs orientate us in the world. They underpin our choices and goals, and they inspire our efforts to seek happiness and avoid misery. Within Buddhism it’s axiomatic that we can hold our beliefs less tightly and exchange old dysfunctional/unwholesome beliefs (e.g. about self) for new ones that are more functional/wholesome within the ever-changing world we’re currently experiencing.

 

The Buddha distinguished between right views and wrong views. He spent his entire teaching career encouraging his followers towards right view and discouraging them away from wrong view. Beliefs that are aligned with reality he saw as right views, inclining us towards peace and contentment. Beliefs that are misaligned with reality he saw as wrong views, inclining us towards stress and discontentment. According to Bhikkhu Bodhi, the Buddha saw right view as the single most important cause of wholesome mind states and wrong view as the single most important cause of unwholesome mind states. 

 

 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 7/29/2023 at 1:39 AM, Ajay0 said:

 

Buddha seems to prioritize right view in the Sammādiṭṭhi Sutta...

 

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-ditthi/index.html#:~:text="One tries to abandon wrong,%26 circle around right view."

 

 

He also elaborates on the consequences of wrong view...

 

 

But then again:

 

Now what... is right view?  Now I... say that right view is twofold.  There is... the right view that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth).  There is... the right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way.  And what... is the right view that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)?  There is (result of) gift ... offering sacrifice; there is fruit and ripening of deeds well done or ill done; there is this world, there is a world beyond; there is (benefit from) serving mother and father; there are spontaneously arising beings; there are in the world recluses and brahmins... who proclaim this world and the world beyond having realised them by their own super-knowledge.  This...  is a right view that has cankers, is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth).

And what... is the right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way?  Whatever... is wisdom, the cardinal faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the component of enlightenment that is investigation into things, the right view that is a component of the Way in one who, by developing the [noble] Way, is of [noble] thought, cankerless thought, conversant with the [noble] Way--this... is a right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way.

 

As to this… right view comes first. And how… does right view come first? If one comprehends that wrong purpose is wrong purpose and comprehends that right purpose is right purpose, that is… right view. And what… is wrong purpose? Purpose for sense-pleasures, purpose for ill-will, purpose for harming. This… is wrong purpose. And what… is right purpose? Now I… say that right purpose is twofold. There is… the right purpose that has cankers, is on the side of merit, and ripens unto cleaving (to new birth). There is… the right purpose which is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a factor of the Way. And what… is the purpose which is on the side of merit, and ripens unto cleaving? Purpose for renunciation, purpose for non-ill-will, purpose for non-harming. This… is right purpose that… ripens unto cleaving. And what… is the right purpose that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way? Whatever… is reasoning, initial thought, purpose, an activity of speech through the complete focusing and application of the mind in one who, by developing the [noble] Way, is of [noble] thought, of cankerless thought, and is conversant with the [noble] Way–this… is right purpose that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way.

 

(MN III 71-78, Vol III p 113-121; bracketed "noble" replaces "ariyan" in the original)

 

 

Gautama speaks similarly of right purpose, right speech, right action, right mode of livelihood (but not of right endeavor, right mindfulness, or right concentration), then says:

 

 

As to this… right view comes first. And how … does right view come first? Right purpose… proceeds from right view, right speech proceeds from right purpose; right action proceeds from right speech; right mode of livelihood proceeds from right action; right endeavor proceeds from right mode of livelihood; right mindfulness proceeds from right endeavor; right concentration proceeds from right mindfulness; right knowledge proceeds from right concentration; right freedom proceeds from right knowledge. In this way the learner’s course is possessed of eight components, the perfected one’s of ten components.

(ibid)

 

 

He does put right view first, but there's a distinction between the right view "that has cankers" and the "supermundane" right view.  Also, he has described the path of the "perfected one" as ten-fold, rather than eight-fold.

What's a mother to do--the dhamma is so unruly!

Read the sermons in the Pali Text Society translations, here.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Ajay0]

Quote

If there is the genuine view, the pure view, then all of the ten negative actions will be abandoned naturally. ~ Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche

 

Here we see that comprehension of the genuine view or right view, leads to natural abandonment of a variety of negative actions without even having to develop their corresponding virtues to nullify these vices.

 

Thus right view or right understanding itself is potent enough to nullify negativity and vices or preempt such behavioral traits. 

 

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Ten_unwholesome_actions

Edited October 16, 2023 by Ajay0

[Tommy]

It seems to me that the eightfold path is one of putting things right. A sort of correcting the things in one's house. One can not perceive the truth of nature without having one's own house in order. The Buddha called it a path. To me it is straightening out those things in one's life. To clear the way for the true self to come. The person wishing to see Buddha nature is not actually the  same one who sees the truth. How could it be?

[tao.te.kat]

>It seems to me that the eightfold path is one of putting things right

 

I mostly agree. Maybe prajna will be a little bit more of an outcome, but the rest is putting things right. Sila for sure, that's the basic ground, and a lot of training the mind, that's "sharpening" the tool that is out of shape. A little less with prajna which is more like the outcome.

 

But anyway, it's not linear at all. It's holistic.

 

Some time ago I wrote (sorry it's auto translation to english):

 

The spiritual path is an infinite virtuous circle, an spiral, really.

 

The spiral occurs when the force of attraction of our own liberation and that of others is stronger than our desires, fears and ambitions in manifest reality. So each step brings us closer to our origin and our liberation.

 

And vice versa, when the force of attraction of manifest reality is stronger, then the spiral continues to occur but moving us away from our center, increasingly alienated from what can bring us peace, serenity and equanimity.

 

The virtuous spiral occurs because:

 

Conceptual understanding attracts us and guides us in the process, initiating us in mental training.
Mental training offers us the possibility of obtaining non-conceptual wisdom.

Non-conceptual wisdom, which is a profound mental change, allows us to be effectively more complete and truly live the theoretical proposal, that is, this conceptual understanding is realized in a complete life.

Integrity is intrinsically reduction of suffering and together with non-conceptual wisdom allows us to go deeper into mental training.
and the virtuous cycle continues to spin until…

the Liberation:

 

Without conflicting mental tendencies, there is no conflict.
Without conflict there is no rejection.
Without rejection there is no suffering.
Without suffering there is liberation.

[Tommy]

I view the eightfold path as a way to set thing right within ourselves. This makes for the soil to become fertile and such seeds of awareness can grows. The practice of meditation is one of not controlling thoughts but of unbinding ourselves from identifying with thoughts. We do not stop thoughts or if one gets hit on the head then one would have experienced Nirvana? But, one does not. We let go of the attachment to thoughts. And so free ourselves from this view. With grace, one may view an entire scenery apart from self.