A Game of Stories

[liminal_luke]

One of my favorite psychologists, Esther Perel, sells a games called Where Should We Begin -- A Game of Stories.  Where Should We Begin A Game of Stories - Esther Perel.  It's a getting-to-know-you-better game designed to help friends, lovers, family members, and really anybody to ask each other provocative questions and learn more about each other.  Rather than buy her game, I'm now thinking....why not design my own?  What questions could somebody ask me that would elicit interesting stories?  What questions would I like to ask others?  

 

So here's a few questions I would ask players of my game if I had a chance.  Please add any questions you'd ask if you were designing the game.  Bonus points if you give answers -- to my questions or your own.

 

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

What is something you used to be able to do that you can't do any longer and miss?

 

What is something that you used to do that you would like to bring back into your life?

 

What is something that most people get wrong about you?

 

How do you the foods you eat reflect your values?

 

How does your living space reflect your personality and taste?

 

How do you fit in or not fit in with the culture of the area you live in?

 

Does your use of technology make you more or less lonely?  Tell us more...

 

Tell us about a time you were moved by art or music or literature....

 

Tell us about a time you were moved by the natural world....

 

What is a quality in your mom or dad that they've passed on to you?

 

Tell us about an important conversation you had that went well...

 

Tell us about how you made an important decision -- where to live? what to study?  who to marry?  whether or not to have kids?

 

What is something you used to do that seems out of character for you now?

 

(I put this in General Discussion but maybe it really belongs in The Rabbit Hole?  If a moderator wants to move it, fine by me.)

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by liminal_luke

[whocoulditbe?]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Rather than buy her game, I'm now thinking....why not design my own?

You have the right idea there. Asking personal questions shouldn't cost £36! Anyway:

• Have you ever realised all too late the significance of words you at first took to be ordinary?

• What sensation do you associate most with the past, and why?

• Is there any memory that you once thought was close to your heart, but which drifted away from your awareness until years later?
• If you see your life as divided into phases, when did the most recent one start? How about the one before that?
• Is there anything you previously considered essential, that you now do without every day?

Edited August 2, 2023 by whocoulditbe?

[liminal_luke]

7 minutes ago, whocoulditbe? said:

 

• If you see your life as divided into phases, when did the most recent one start? How about the one before that?

 

It's not exactly a phase -- hopefully -- but I guess the last section of my life started around 15 years ago when I met my partner.  We started talking to each other online, the way socially shy gay people met each other before the rise of dating and sex phone apps.  At the time I was full-tilt into boyfriend hunting mode and sometimes "interviewed" several potential matches a day at the downtown Starbucks in Zacatecas, Mexico.  Given my present age and, um, stats, I doubt I could rustle up any kind of enthusiasm among central Mexico locals today, but at the time it was easy enough to easy enough to entertain suitors over fancy coffee.  When Jose walked into the coffeeshop, I had some sort of chocolate sauce dribbling down my chin, which, lucky for me, he found endearing.  Jose didn't say much but what he did say was spoken in perfect English and there was just something about him.  

[thelerner]

What is your favorite fairy tale, and why?

Tell me about a memorable time at a restaurant.  Which place and why?

What scares you?

What do you think I have in my left pocket?

What's the difference between angels and aliens?

If you were a movie star, which movie would you want to be in?

What is your favorite ride in the playground?

Tell me about a time you stupidly hurt yourself.

What is an underrated sexual move?

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, thelerner said:

 

Tell me about a memorable time at a restaurant.  Which place and why?

 

First memorable time: in my early teens, in Lithuania.  The restaurant was some kind of spacious log house in the middle of a forest (the town was interesting in that you could get deep into the woods that looked every bit like pristine wilderness and then abruptly walk right out in the middle of a city street -- and vice versa).  It had honey-colored artistic benches and tables roughly cut out of massive slabs of wood and then polished smooth, many of them located outside.  Beyond rustic, and before anyone else did such things for furniture.  The main dish we ordered they called carbonnade but it wasn't a stew (unlike the French version), it was more like "buzhenina," a very thick cut of baked/grilled pork with herbs and spices, and the side dishes were very creative though I don't remember what they were.  It was the most impressive piece of meat, tender and juicy and smelling of smoked perfection.  For beverages they had assorted homemade things, cider etc., served in clay jars, not just apple but sour cherry and blackcurrant and the like.  Some were non-alcoholic but there also was a blackcurrant liqueur, and my parents let me have some.  It was very strong and hit me hard, but I had to conceal my condition so that my parents don't get this idea that I can't hold my liquor.  Everything was so dizzyingly amazing, authentic, there was a feel and a taste of something eternal, unadulterated about every detail -- the environment, the food, the delicious liqueur offered to a (barely) teenage girl with no qualms (let her figure out if she can handle it, and how much of it, prohibitions accomplish either nothing in the best case scenario, or else its rebellious opposite in the worst one.)      

Edited August 4, 2023 by Taomeow

[liminal_luke]

15 hours ago, thelerner said:

 

Tell me about a memorable time at a restaurant.  Which place and why?

 

In Italy, my mom and I once asked a restaurant server a question about tipping.  He replied "What service?," as if to imply that our food and drink magically teleported from the kitchen to our table.  His answer and bearing made an impression on me, at once absurdly dismissive of his own role in the operation yet also confident and opinionated.  He was a solid, human presence.  Thinking about it later, I realized he had a point: sometimes when a thing is done really expertly it seems not to exist at all.

[Mark Foote]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:57 PM, liminal_luke said:

Please add any questions you'd ask if you were designing the game.  Bonus points if you give answers -- to my questions or your own.

 

My question:  The last time you put a hand to your face and held it there, what were you thinking about?

My answer:  What would make a good question in Liminal Luke's game.

Ha ha.  I'm thinking, I'm thinking!

Edited August 8, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Taomeow]

10 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

My question:  The last time you put a hand to your face and held it there, what were you thinking about?
 

I was thinking about the absolutely critical initial time of covid when the WHO and the CDC and the FDA and the Big Pharma-made MDs unleashed, as a measure to prevent the then-impending pandemic, a whole campaign instructing people not to touch their faces with their hands. (Sorry, deleted the rest of my answer initially posted - so as not to thwart the mood of the thread.)

Edited August 9, 2023 by Taomeow

[Mark Foote]

On 8/8/2023 at 4:45 PM, Taomeow said:

I was thinking about the absolutely critical initial time of covid when the WHO and the CDC and the FDA and the Big Pharma-made MDs unleashed, as a measure to prevent the then-impending pandemic, a whole campaign instructing people not to touch their faces with their hands. (Sorry, deleted the rest of my answer initially posted - so as not to thwart the mood of the thread.)
 

Aw, common, Taomeow--give us the low-down!

I believe the CDC realized early that the research indicating Covid transmission through surface contact had been done with extraordinarily large amounts of the virus on surfaces, and that in fact Covid was not readily transmitted through contact with surfaces, but only by airborne particles.  They advised such.

And stores continued to offer wipes, and people continued to use hand-sanitizer, in spite of the CDC reversal.

[Taomeow]

16 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

Aw, common, Taomeow--give us the low-down!

 

Thanks for caring, Mark.  I did initially, but then thought, nah, wrong thread, wrong mood.  (That was more appropriate for a different place and time.  The only thing I will say is that I used to hope god, should such an entity exist, is merciful and just.  But now I hope god is as vindictive and wrathful as the old testament says he is, and then some.  Though neither scenario seems more plausible than the third one: he doesn't give a shit.)

 

Now a question to contribute to the game:

What's your biggest passion in life? 

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

What's your biggest passion in life? 

 

People have been known to cringe and roll their eyes, but I'd have to say "the inner journey."  Personal growth, broadly defined.  To me this primarily means my various spiritual practices as well as the pursuit of physical and mental health.  Years ago, a therapist asked me what I wanted to get out of our work together; I told him, rather mysteriously, that I wanted to more fully inhabit my body.  Thirty year later that still sounds to me like the most worthy of goals.  I'm not always especially successful with my various self-improvement projects, but I'm dogged.

 

All this is in contrast to those whose main orientation in life is outside of themselves.  I'm not especially focused on changing the world or making money or achieving career success.  Some might say my self-focus is overly navel-gazing.  I don't think so.  I believe that when I am my most authentic self my authenticity will ripple out into my relationships in beneficial ways, automatically, without micromanagement.

Edited August 10, 2023 by liminal_luke

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I did initially, but then thought, nah, wrong thread, wrong mood. 

 

It's true that I didn't have pandemic policy issues in mind when I started this thread but, personally, I love a digression.  Here's a  pandemic-related question I'd ask in the game....

 

Has covid and covid policy effected you in ways that feel important and lasting but aren't easily addressed in today's social climate?

 

Suffice it to say that if someone asked me that question my answer would be a resounding yes.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Mark Foote]

23 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Thanks for caring, Mark.  I did initially, but then thought, nah, wrong thread, wrong mood.  (That was more appropriate for a different place and time.  The only thing I will say is that I used to hope god, should such an entity exist, is merciful and just.  But now I hope god is as vindictive and wrathful as the old testament says he is, and then some.  Though neither scenario seems more plausible than the third one: he doesn't give a shit.)

 

Yesterday I found myself thinking about that basic tenet of Gautama's teaching, that intention in action creates the ripple effect of karma, and it doesn't matter if the intention is for good or for ill.  The action will circle back, the same circumstance present itself again in one form or another, until intention is no longer present in action in response.

Or at least, that's how I understand it.

 

I thought about the cumulative effect of all the intentional actions of humankind, and my hope for the planet sank.  

 

 

Quote

 

Now a question to contribute to the game:

What's your biggest passion in life? 
 

I'm with Liminal Luke, on the passion for "the inner journey".  At the same time, my dissatisfaction with my use of my mind was the start of the journey for me, not some lofty aspiration (I don't know about your "inner journey" origin story, Luke, maybe yours is more positive than mine!).

I perhaps have a glimmer now of what Shunryu Suzuki meant when he said:

 

So, when you practice zazen, your mind should be concentrated in your breathing and this kind of activity is the fundamental activity of the universal being. If so, how you should use your mind is quite clear. Without this experience, or this practice, it is impossible to attain the absolute freedom.

(“Thursday Morning Lectures”, November 4th 1965, Los Altos; emphasis added)

 

 

As usual, Suzuki only confirms something I've managed to come to through other avenues.  But it was a long time coming! 

 

Kodo Sawaki said:  "Gain is delusion; loss is enlightenment".  A lot of the real journey for me has been the discovery that the movement of breath can place attention, and can shift the placement of attention in such a way as to generate what Feldenkrais called "automatic activity" in inhalation and exhalation.  That activity is not necessarily limited to sitting on the meditation cushion.  That activity gradually affects the spaces between vertebrae to allow some ease in the nerve exits, and thereby open feeling in the body.  That's a gain, yet my part is the abandonment of the willful placement of my attention.

A gradual process, but feeling, while I'm still alive to appreciate the ability to feel in my life.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mark Foote

[liminal_luke]

19 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

A lot of the real journey for me has been the discovery that the movement of breath can place attention, and can shift the placement of attention in such a way as to generate what Feldenkrais called "automatic activity" in inhalation and exhalation.  That activity is not necessarily limited to sitting on the meditation cushion.  That activity gradually affects the spaces between vertebrae to allow some ease in the nerve exits, and thereby open feeling in the body. 

 

Mark -- 

 

I don't always understand your posts but on the off chance you ever teach any kind of somatic education workshop in Ensenada, Mexico I'll be sure to bring my yoga mat.

[Mark Foote]

4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Mark -- 

 

I don't always understand your posts but on the off chance you ever teach any kind of somatic education workshop in Ensenada, Mexico I'll be sure to bring my yoga mat.
 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Liminal'.  

Some somatic background, perhaps:

 

Moshe Feldenkrais described the reason that many people hold their breath for an instant when getting up out of a chair:

 

The tendency to hold one’s breath is instinctive, part of an attempt to prevent the establishment of shearing stresses or forces likely to shift the vertebrae horizontally, out of the vertical alignment of the spinal column that they constitute.
 

(“Awareness Through Movement”, Moshe Feldenkrais, p 83)

 

 

Holding one’s breath retains pressure in the abdomen.  Medical researcher D. L. Bartilink remarked on the utility of a “tensed somatic cavity” in support of the spine: 

 

Animals undoubtedly make an extensive use of the protection of their spines by the tensed somatic cavity, and probably also use it as a support upon which muscles of posture find a hold…

 

(“The Role of Abdominal Pressure in Relieving the Pressure on the Lumbar Intervertebral Discs”, J Bone Joint Surg Br 1957 Nov;39-B(4):718-25. doi: 10.1302/0301-620X.39B4.718. 1957)
 

 

However, Bartilink noted that pressure in the abdominal cavity need not restrict the diaphragm:

 

… Breathing can go on even when the abdomen is used as a support and cannot be relaxed. 

 

(ibid)
 

 

Feldenkrais suggested a practice to overcome the tendency to hold the breath, a series of preparatory movements to be done on a chair before standing.  First, he said, move the upper body forward and backward, then from side to side, and finally “in such a way that the top of the head marks a circle, the head being supported on the spine as on a rod.”  According to Feldenkrais, the relaxed awareness initiated by these exercises can allow a change in the center of gravity to initiate “automatic movement” in the legs:

 

…When the center of gravity has really moved forward over the feet a reflex movement will originate in the old nervous system and straighten the legs; this automatic movement will not be felt as an effort at all. 

 

(“Awareness Through Movement”, Moshe Feldenkrais, p 76, 78)
 

 

Feldenkrais emphasized that in a good posture, “there must be no muscular effort deriving from voluntary control”:

 

…good upright posture is that from which a minimum muscular effort will move the body with equal ease in any desired direction. This means that in the upright position there must be no muscular effort deriving from voluntary control, regardless of whether this effort is known and deliberate or concealed from the consciousness by habit.
 

(ibid)

 

 

... In my experience, “automatic” activity in the movement of breath can at times depend on the relaxation of particular muscle groups and the exercise of calm with regard to the stretch of particular ligaments.  I believe that a pattern in the circulation of “automatic” activity can develop, especially when a bent-knee posture or carriage is maintained over a period of time.

 

“Automatic” activity in the movement of breath also follows as one “lays hold of one-pointedness” [as a presence of mind allows the movement of breath to place and shift attention], but in order to “lay hold”, carriage of the weight of the body must fall to the ligaments and volitive activity in the body must be relinquished. 
 

Body and mind dropped off is the beginning of our effort.
 

(Eihei Dogen, “Dogen’s Extensive Record, Eihei Koroku, #501, tr Leighton and Okumura p 448)

 

“One-pointedness” can shift, as every particle of the body (with no part left out) comes into the placement of attention.  At the moment when “one-pointedness” can shift as though in open space, volition and habit in the activity of inhalation and exhalation ceases. 

 

(A Way of Living, bracketed material added)

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mark Foote

[liminal_luke]

Thanks, Mark.  Are you a Feldenkrais practitioner?  teacher?  I went to one or two Feldenkrais classes some years back and felt interestingly better afterward, better in a different way than I might feel after, say, yoga.  I imagine there's a trove of useful work to be done at the intersection of Feldenkrais and movement practices like Tai Chi.

[Apech]

20 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Thanks, Mark.  Are you a Feldenkrais practitioner?  teacher?  I went to one or two Feldenkrais classes some years back and felt interestingly better afterward, better in a different way than I might feel after, say, yoga.  I imagine there's a trove of useful work to be done at the intersection of Feldenkrais and movement practices like Tai Chi.

 

Feldenkrias and Guildenstern are dead.

 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:41 PM, liminal_luke said:

 

Thanks, Mark.  Are you a Feldenkrais practitioner?  teacher?  I went to one or two Feldenkrais classes some years back and felt interestingly better afterward, better in a different way than I might feel after, say, yoga.  I imagine there's a trove of useful work to be done at the intersection of Feldenkrais and movement practices like Tai Chi.

 

 

Nope, not a Feldenkrais practitioner, per se.

I left a large section out of my previous quote (from my A Way of Living), but since you asked!  (you didn't, but I'm going to say that you did):
 

Feldenkrais spoke about shifting “the center of gravity”.  In his “Introduction to Zen Training”, Rinzai master Omori Sogen offered a quote from Hida Haramitsu, who spoke of shifting ‘the center of the body’s weight”:

 

We should balance the power of the hara (area below the navel) and the koshi (area at the rear of the pelvis) and maintain equilibrium of the seated body by bringing the center of the body’s weight in line with the center of the triangular base of the seated body.

 

(Hida Haramitsu, “Nikon no Shimei” [“Mission of Japan”], parentheticals added)

 

Feldenkrais described how shifting the center of gravity over the feet can generate an “automatic movement” in the legs.  Haramitsu spoke of shifting “the center of the body’s weight in line with the center of the triangular base of the seated body”, and I believe that such a shift can set up “automatic” activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation.
 

Feldenkrais described the origin of the automatic movement in the legs as “the old nervous system”.  While the movement may indeed be coordinated by the autonomic nervous system, I suspect the activity is initiated through the stretch of ligaments.  Feldenkrais’s exercises allow for the relaxation of the muscles of the lower body, so that the weight of the upper body can rest on particular ligaments.  I believe that when the stretch in those ligaments is sufficient, they can initiate the activity of standing. 
 

I would say that the relaxed awareness of the balance of the body that Haramitsu described similarly allows the weight of the body to come to bear on particular ligaments, and the shift in the weight of the body that he prescribed initiates activity to relieve shearing stress on the spine in inhalation and exhalation. 
 

The classic literature of Tai Chi appears to identify the ligaments of the body as a source of activity.  The literature describes three levels in the development of “ch’i”, a word that literally translates as “breath” but in practice is taken to refer to a fundamental energy of the body, and each of the three levels has three stages.
 

The stages of the first level are:
 

“… relaxing the ligaments from the shoulder to the wrist”; “from the hip joint to the heel”; “from the sacrum to the headtop”.
 

(“Three Levels” from “Cheng Tzu’s Thirteen Treatises on Ta’i Chi Chuan”, Cheng Man Ch’ing, trans. Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo and Martin Inn, p 77-78)

 

Unlike the contraction and relaxation of muscles, the stretch and resile of ligaments can’t be voluntarily controlled.  The muscles across the joints can, however, be relaxed in such a way as to allow the natural stretch and resile of ligaments–that would seem to be the meaning of the advice to “relax the ligaments”. 
 

The stages of the second level are:
 

“sinking ch’i to the tan t’ien” (a point below and behind the navel); “the ch’i reaches the arms and legs”; “the ch’i moves through the sacrum (wei lu) to the top of the head (ni wan)”.
 

(ibid)

 

Tai Ch’i master Cheng Man Ch’ing advised that the ch’i will collect at the tan-t’ien until it overflows into the tailbone and transits to the top of the head, but he warned against any attempt to force the flow.
 

Omori Sogen cautioned similarly:
 

… It may be the least trouble to say as a general precaution that strength should be allowed to come to fullness naturally as one becomes proficient in sitting.  We should sit so that our energy increases of itself and brims over instead of putting physical pressure on the lower abdomen by force. 
 

(“An Introduction to Zen Training:  A Translation of Sanzen Nyumon”, Omori Sogen, tr. Dogen Hosokawa and Roy Yoshimoto, Tuttle Publishing, p 59)

 

I would posit that the patterns in the development of ch’i reflect involuntary activity of the body generated in the stretch of ligaments. There is, in addition, a possible mechanism of support for the spine from the displacement of the fascia behind the spine, a displacement that can be effected by pressure generated in the abdominal cavity and that may quite possibly depend on a push on the fascia behind the sacrum by the bulk of the extensor muscles, as they contract (see my Kinesthesiology of Fascial Support). 
 

The final level in the development of ch’i concerns “chin”.  According to the classics, “chin comes from the ligaments”. 
 

The three stages of the final level are:
 

“t’ing chin, listening to or feeling strength”; “comprehension of chin”; “omnipotence”. 
 

(“Three Levels” from “Cheng Tzu’s Thirteen Treatises on Ta’i Chi Chuan”, Cheng Man Ch’ing, trans. Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo and Martin Inn, p 77-78)

 

Another translator rendered the last stage above as “perfect clarity” (“Master Cheng’s Thirteen Chapters on T’ai-Chi Ch’uan”, Douglas Wile, p 57). In my estimation, “perfect clarity” is “the pureness of (one’s) mind” that Gautama associated with “the cessation of inbreathing and outbreathing” in the fourth concentration.
 

The Tai Chi classics emphasize relaxation. For me, calm is also required with regard to the stretch of ligaments, if “automatic movement” is to be realized.  The stretch of a ligament prior to strain is small (6%), and I would say that automatic movement is only initiated at the edge of the range. 
 

Cheng Man Ch’ing mentioned a Chinese description of seated meditation, “straighten the chest and sit precariously” (ibid p 21)–I think that also speaks to the necessity of calm.