Anyone here practise Chinese classical martial-arts?

[galen_burnett]

I was going to post a long take on my view on practising classical martial-arts, but I understand now that this probably isn’t the right forum-site for that. But if anyone’s interested let me know and I’ll post it.

 

(I generally talk about why I fell out of love with it and my personal criticisms of it, after having practised fairly intensively in it some years ago.)

[Cobie]

I don’t practice it. But I still would like to see your view, as I think it might be interesting to read. Possibly start with a digest. See if anyone takes an interest.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Cobie

[Nintendao]

Hi @galen_burnett, I learned some pretty good kung fu a decade or two ago. I don't do the forms anymore but still find myself applying the principles daily. Later when I learned nei kung, it was from a tai chi school, so was able to advance a little faster. For instance already having a trained horse stance and rudimentary "sinew changing"

[galen_burnett]

@Nintendao Cool. Do you happen to know of any martial-art forums? It’s funny that you should reply to this post because a fair bit of what I’ve written is to do with Smash Bros. lol!

[galen_burnett]

@Cobie Alright. I’ll do that then. Also do you know of any martial-art forums which would suit that sort of thing?

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi Galen,

 

While we have many threads here that discuss the spiritual and cultivation aspects of the martial arts, including the fitness side, general principles, and historical aspects, there are forums out there suitable for the more comprehensive treatment of the topic in all its aspects.

 

Currently the best one is probably:

 

www.martialtalk.com

 

Kenpo greetings,

Michael 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Michael Sternbach

[galen_burnett]

@Michael Sternbach Thanks for that pointer!

[Nungali]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:58 AM, galen_burnett said:

I was going to post a long take on my view on practising classical martial-arts, but I understand now that this probably isn’t the right forum-site for that. But if anyone’s interested let me know and I’ll post it.

 

(I generally talk about why I fell out of love with it and my personal criticisms of it, after having practised fairly intensively in it some years ago.)

 

yes please ! 

 

We have long threads on that in the past , it used to be a much more popular subject here back then .

 

I had a lifetime of practice, not in Chinese arts , but towards the last 10 years , Okinawan, which has  or had a strong Chinese influence and possibly origin .

 

I too have personal criticisms of what happened to them  ( they got turned into that weird  modern practice of 'karate'  ... they even changed the  letter form (kanji ) in the word 'karate'  that meant 'Chinese hand '  (boxing) to 'empty hand'  and removed the weapon training . I fell out of love with that many years back , have criticisms ... which I can demonstrate validly 'on the floor' as they say , and back up historically .

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, galen_burnett said:

@Nintendao Cool. Do you happen to know of any martial-art forums? It’s funny that you should reply to this post because a fair bit of what I’ve written is to do with Smash Bros. lol!

 

I have found them pretty bad . Maybe there are some  CMA good forums ???

 

ed;  MA forums that is ....

Edited August 13, 2023 by Nungali

[Nungali]

I'll start o/f by throwing a wild question at you ;

 

In a few spear or longer staff forms   ( and in one long staff  form I  practice  *  there is one move like it )

 

there is a move like ; one end of the staff or the spear is sweeping up , usually from the back, coming down and then to the front , sweeping up rather vigorously and ending in a  high position . As it sweeps up , the rear leg is lifted into a high position , knee bent and high up , lower leg  vertical and foot down .

 

Why lift the leg up when doing that ?

[galen_burnett]

@Nungali Maybe my post will answer your question in a roundabout way; personally I don’t trust the application of classical martial-arts to the real-world in the absence of real-life fighting experience; maybe the large forms are a perversion of much denser forms that were practised at the time when those arts actually were training soldiers for battle? Otherwise though, I guess maybe the idea is something like that by being familiar with a movement when performed on a larger scale it makes it easier to perform it on a smaller scale; by analogy the little details in a picture or edited video require you to zoom-in really closely to put them there in the first place, no good trying to insert small details into a picture while standing at normal viewing distance; it’s not a great analogy, but then, like yourself, I don’t think I ever really understood clearly why the movements were so broad in forms. I think I heard that the large movements are good for maintaining the strength and flexibility of the body also.

[Nintendao]

16 hours ago, Nungali said:

Why lift the leg up when doing that ?

 

Lol yeah! could be a dodge, in case the opponent sweeps low while ducking the high spear? Maybe as Galen noted, a deliberately exaggerated way of training the back leg to support one's weight during that position. It's true a lot of what is in classical forms doesn't translate directly to practical maneuvers, but rather over time to sculpt and strengthen certain angles and edges.

[Michael Sternbach]

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

I'll start o/f by throwing a wild question at you ;

 

In a few spear or longer staff forms   ( and in one long staff  form I  practice  *  there is one move like it )

 

there is a move like ; one end of the staff or the spear is sweeping up , usually from the back, coming down and then to the front , sweeping up rather vigorously and ending in a  high position . As it sweeps up , the rear leg is lifted into a high position , knee bent and high up , lower leg  vertical and foot down .

 

Why lift the leg up when doing that ?

 

Hmm, this sounds suspiciously like the description of a scorpion kick.

 

 

Amazingly, the move seems to work under certain circumstances. 

 

 

But yeah, I'm going out on a limb...

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, galen_burnett said:

@Nungali Maybe my post will answer your question in a roundabout way; personally I don’t trust the application of classical martial-arts to the real-world in the absence of real-life fighting experience; maybe the large forms are a perversion of much denser forms that were practised at the time when those arts actually were training soldiers for battle? Otherwise though, I guess maybe the idea is something like that by being familiar with a movement when performed on a larger scale it makes it easier to perform it on a smaller scale; by analogy the little details in a picture or edited video require you to zoom-in really closely to put them there in the first place, no good trying to insert small details into a picture while standing at normal viewing distance; it’s not a great analogy, but then, like yourself, I don’t think I ever really understood clearly why the movements were so broad in forms. I think I heard that the large movements are good for maintaining the strength and flexibility of the body also.

 

Yes, that seems part of it . I know there can be other parts too ;

 

Eg , in one form we did ,  there is an upward sweeping movement with the hand , fingers pointing up ( I call it 'crane strikes beak into throat ' { not the throat, but above the 'Adam's Apple '  upward at 45 deg. }  ) and at the same time , the leg is lifted in a similar action to what I described in the other movement .   So I tried it on  someone     ( well, he says he is a 6th Dan, so .... )  ;   one has to be in close to strike up to the throat ... I tried it = knee in his balls , he doubled over and got the rising 'break' strike in an eye .

 

I have found that if one has a  wide variety of cross training and styles and technique , many holes in  mis or not understood moves can be resolved .... like that classic 'unknown' move in Kusanku  form .

 

This is all due to a cultural process . I studied mostly its effect on MA in a Japanese form , but similar applies to Chinese .

 

Eg .  What ! ?   You DARE to ask the MASTER a question ?    or in Japanese culture see the principles of tatame and honne and their proclivity to copy 'master' without understanding or questioning . Now,  continue that down the generations .

[galen_burnett]

[deleted]

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by galen_burnett

[zerostao]

5 hours ago, galen_burnett said:

@Nungali Well that sounds pretty fun, but honestly I’m done with martial-arts because of injury-risks like that—you only have one body for this whole lifetime, and fixing it if it breaks can be very very difficult if not impossible. Imagine if you had a hole in your roof, or a broken door in the house, and no way whatsoever to fix it—ever!

 

Yes I agree, I think the hive-mind attitude of following instructions without question definitely contributes a lot to the problems in martial-arts.

 

 

 

 

 
perhaps, this would be useful

 

https://saltwrap.com/pages/built-from-broken

[galen_burnett]

@zerostao lol yes maybe it would

[zerostao]

To answer the OP;

yes, I play with Chinese Classical Martial Arts. My experience is that I owe my good health to these classics. Baguazhang remade me from an old guy gasping for his last struggling breath to now, fourteen years later, and if we count age by how many solar years or Moon cycles, at my place of employment, which has had as many as 400 employees, me being second oldest, yet fastest on my feet, with my hands, and my mind, and express the most endurance.This isn’t even debatable.

at first my goal was better health, and I’ve received more than I ever expected. Then, energetics became what I’ve enjoyed playing with. Subtle although Deep. I was tested all year in 2019, at age 60 by an entire town. They failed to subdue me, even after  every dirty trick they tried. Other Chinese Arts have benefited me as well. I’ve experienced things beyond my imagination.

I rarely speak about any of it. I didn’t enter these arts with the intentions of being some brawler, or tough guy, and I am certainly not those. I don’t spar. I look very average. Although, 99% guess my age at least twenty years less than I am.

Ive read several threads on this forum about various martial arts, hard, soft, etc imo

there are countless variables involved as to why or why not they are useful, beneficial, harmful, what have ya. 
my experiences with these arts are that they not only sustain me, they carry me to new thresholds and gates. I am extremely grateful what they’ve provided for me.

[Nungali]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:37 AM, Nintendao said:

 

Lol yeah! could be a dodge, in case the opponent sweeps low while ducking the high spear? Maybe as Galen noted, a deliberately exaggerated way of training the back leg to support one's weight during that position. It's true a lot of what is in classical forms doesn't translate directly to practical maneuvers, but rather over time to sculpt and strengthen certain angles and edges.

 

No to the first bit ... its the back leg that comes forward and sweeps up .   Your front leg would still be hit by the others sweep , and if you examine how I described this move ...with  a vertical upward strike . it doent matter if they 'duck' .

 

The second part of your post ?  Yeah ... probably .

Edited August 16, 2023 by Nungali

[Nungali]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:17 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Hmm, this sounds suspiciously like the description of a scorpion kick.

 

 

Amazingly, the move seems to work under certain circumstances. 

 

 

But yeah, I'm going out on a limb...

 

 

Finally .... something to use the 'upper X-block' for !   

 

 

    But  No .... I neglected to add .... the rear leg is bought forward and lifted up to the front of yourself .

 

The only thing I seen anything like a scorpion kick (in 'real life' ) was years back, I was training with a friend, we where warming up and doing some rolls ; we crashed   (  on warmups  ) ;  I did a roll and was flipping upwards , he did roll slightly later coming from the opposite direction and was flipping over , his rear foot whipped over in a circular motion as he dived into the ground to roll and connected with my head as it flipped up as I was coming up from my roll ; his rear heel smacked me right in the side of the temple . We both ended up standing , he " You okay ?  " .  Me  ? Well I finally understood why that image of people with 'stars' around their heads exist .... it went very dark black all round , there where stars twinkling all round . I felt my body staggering about, and arms reaching out  ... then ... just black and no stars .  I remember hearing him laughing before I passed out .

[Nungali]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:05 PM, galen_burnett said:

@Nungali Well that sounds pretty fun, but honestly I’m done with martial-arts because of injury-risks like that—you only have one body for this whole lifetime, and fixing it if it breaks can be very very difficult if not impossible.

 

Yes I agree, I think the hive-mind attitude of following instructions without question definitely contributes a lot to the problems in martial-arts.

 

Eg.  I was helping 'Queen Bee' assemble hive frames the other day ; we did around 100 , she is comfortable sitting on the grass on a blanket .  Me ? for about 5 mins  but I did it anyway .  Its obvious after a while , I fidget and move , when I get up for a walk, thats really obvious .. take a few spastic steps before I can walk normal . She is "Oh, are you alright ?"  "  Sure... I live like this . "

 

Sometimes I veggies garden lying on the dirt on my side . Once put my back out  (and injuries where only added to by MA 'accidents' , but started by motorcycle accident ), I was laying next to the chopping block , couldnt move , lay there for about 1/2 an hour before someone turned up .   But then I have good days .... LOOK OUT !  

 

Still , I count my blessings ... even when having to garden by lying in the dirt ..... I'm not complaining, could be worse ... could be a lot worse , just by accident , or even 'blind fate from birth'   : 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine if you had a hole in your roof, or a broken door in the house, and no way whatsoever to fix it—ever!

 

I have no need to imagine such things .    I live with them     .

 

Both in house and body .   But I seen a LOT worse .  Life got bumps .   You can get them worse from rugby , cliff climbing, motorcycle riding .   It seems people like less the same injury done in MAs .

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Nungali

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, zerostao said:

To answer the OP;

yes, I play with Chinese Classical Martial Arts. My experience is that I owe my good health to these classics. Baguazhang remade me from an old guy gasping for his last struggling breath to now, fourteen years later, and if we count age by how many solar years or Moon cycles, at my place of employment, which has had as many as 400 employees, me being second oldest, yet fastest on my feet, with my hands, and my mind, and express the most endurance.This isn’t even debatable.

at first my goal was better health, and I’ve received more than I ever expected. Then, energetics became what I’ve enjoyed playing with. Subtle although Deep. I was tested all year in 2019, at age 60 by an entire town. They failed to subdue me, even after  every dirty trick they tried. Other Chinese Arts have benefited me as well. I’ve experienced things beyond my imagination.

I rarely speak about any of it. I didn’t enter these arts with the intentions of being some brawler, or tough guy, and I am certainly not those. I don’t spar. I look very average. Although, 99% guess my age at least twenty years less than I am.

Ive read several threads on this forum about various martial arts, hard, soft, etc imo

there are countless variables involved as to why or why not they are useful, beneficial, harmful, what have ya. 
my experiences with these arts are that they not only sustain me, they carry me to new thresholds and gates. I am extremely grateful what they’ve provided for me.

 

tested ALL YEAR ... by an entire town ... when you where 60  ? 

 

Thats a long test .... I hope you got toilet breaks .   

 

When I was working , just before retirement  and over 60 , I would have to 'keep up  with ' ( and sometimes run rings around ) some young, fit looking , tough guys . At least 10 hrs per day . Thing was , it was the film industry and most of them where  .... 'fueled' .
 Sometimes , someone would comment ; You do alright for an old fellah ."   I would add ;   ' It more 'alright' than you imagine ......  I dont take cocaine . "       

 

Where comes 'energy' ?     Mate on the same job ... wow, what a powerhouse !  And can fight  ( bare knuckle champ from outback cattle yard bouts ) , did amazing feats in some films . Got run over by a bus , wheel across midsection, back at work doing same  in 5 weeks . Eats mostly steak and not much else .  Has a triple vodka and Red Bull for breakfast .  Not a big muscly fellah either .

 

Me ?  I have not been sick in over 8 years ( flue cold sniffle covid etc . ) yet health freaks, good diet , 'health conscious people' all around me seem to be constantly getting them .   I think there is this underlying 'constitutional factor' .  I think they have 'weak constitution' . . . regardless of all their numerous practices , they dont seem to be helping .

[galen_burnett]

[deleted]

Edited August 18, 2023 by galen_burnett

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, galen_burnett said:

@Nungali sounds like you live an interesting life 👍

 

Really .... just from those tiny little snippets ?   I hope you are comparing it to the 'average ' and not your own .

 

Life should be interesting , varied, full, exciting, joyous , grateful, celebrating ....

 

What does galen_burnett do when he aint arguing with people on the internet ?

 

I am in the process of courting two young ladies : they cant find a suitable boyfriend  so I offered this :

 

"Look, you know how much of a hassle men are , why dont you two share a boyfriend and then you only have half the hassles !   I am willing to take you on ... and before you protest that I am too old for you  .... if you add both your ages together , well, it nearly equals  mine . "  

 

 

 

Actually its about to get more interesting ... just like the old days ;  in the past I been on the committee  (some times that meant me and one other ) for about 7 festivals here on our commune . None for years and years now , people tried but they nothing like they used to be  , now they are just noisy music 'duffs' on drugs .  This one 

is supposed to be different .  Not 'us' but another group is using our festival site .    Spring !   Party !   Ya-hoo ... oh yeah and  LOVE! ... apparently .

 

https://www.lovefestaustralia.com/

 

(  here I was thinking with a name like that, imagine the sleezebags that will turn up .  Then I hear the girls talking ; " Maybe there will be yummy men there ? "     

 

some type of  ' ...fest'  any way . 

 

Come on down !

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Nungali

[galen_burnett]

[deleted]

Edited August 18, 2023 by galen_burnett