My take on Chinese classical martial-arts

[ChiDragon]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:51 AM, galen_burnett said:

§4. Furthermore, I began to hit a wall towards the end of my time with those arts. I was beginning to realise that in order to learn how to manipulate a person’s weight one needed to practise with the tension both on and off:

 

there needed to be a switch that could put both persons into either a resistive active fighting-state, in which the centre-of-gravity is difficult to find, or a passive docile state in which it was easy to find.

The centre-of-gravity of a person simulating an attack-position in the docile mode would be easy to find; but difficult to find in the opposite extreme mode of tension and resistance.

Once the position of the centre-of-gravity and the easiest route to it had been found in a particular posture, utilising a person’s ‘docile’ mode, then it could also be found in their ‘resistive’ mode.

But pretty much all of the time people were completely unwilling to enter that docile mode to facilitate the practice; push-hands just was always the other guy being very tense in every direction that I would try to push or pull him in, and then just me swimming around him and shooting in the dark trying to guess where his centre could possibly be.

I would overcompensate for them then: I’d go into rag-doll mode, in the hopes that at least this way I might be able to learn something about the way they used their weight; to be pushed around by them while not distracting my focus with trying not to be pushed, but rather staying relaxed enough to observe them properly while I was being pushed.

Also I hoped that doing so might get the message across that two rams butting heads wasn’t getting anyone anywhere, and to say so verbally, to the effect of ‘you’re supposed to relax, like he says so, you great meat-head!’ never seemed appropriate for some reason. One of the reasons why I learned most when practising with my teacher is because he was incomparably more willing to take turns in being pushed around than everyone else, thence I could learn about his centre.

It was so weird in class: the teacher was telling me to relax and feel out their centre and not worry about being pushed, but whenever I did that, of course everyone acted like I was killing the manly rah rah vibe, and ceased to be willing to engage properly.

So while on the one hand push-hands was blocked by that, progress in contact-sparring was also blocked—though not quite as much as push-hands was, I think—by not ever being able to really pull the stops out, by having to drive with the brakes on all the time, due to people either not wanting to bother with sparring-gear, just plain not wanting to be that aggressive, or else for fear of injury. 

Based on what I had read, it seems you didn't or couldn't follow your teacher's instructions properly. Am I correct? If you like or anyone else, I could explain why it is so weird to you. I went to a push-hand group in a park to see how they do it. They did really push-push hand which is incorrect.

 

Edited November 5 by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

We used to do it on one leg with our feet ; 'sticky foot' we would call it . Works similar to push hands except when you loose it you get a kick in the groin .

 

It was practised for 'leg blocks'   theory was ' if the lower part of your body is attacked, defend it with the lower part of your body . Which meant a variety of ways ; deflects, blocks, roll overs , direct kicking into the attacking leg / nerves , heel stomps , 'absorption'  , foot slaps  .....

 

Ohhh ... to be young again !

[Thrice Daily]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

We used to do it on one leg with our feet ; 'sticky foot' we would call it . Works similar to push hands except when you loose it you get a kick in the groin .

 

It was practised for 'leg blocks'   theory was ' if the lower part of your body is attacked, defend it with the lower part of your body . Which meant a variety of ways ; deflects, blocks, roll overs , direct kicking into the attacking leg / nerves , heel stomps , 'absorption'  , foot slaps  .....

 

Ohhh ... to be young again !

Oh boy, Bruce Lee would be chuckling in his grave... 

 

That's brilliant, I'm going to show it my daughter pronto, gonna have to replace the groin kick with something else unpalatable though. Hmmm.

 

Oh you know I just re-read that, you mean you use the other foot to stick to opponents foot. I get it now... Cool. Going to modify it though and do sticking hands but only on one foot. Surprised I never tried before.

[Paradoxal]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

We used to do it on one leg with our feet ; 'sticky foot' we would call it . Works similar to push hands except when you loose it you get a kick in the groin .

 

In the Wing Chun I was taught, a core principle was that everything you can do with your hands should also be able to be done with your feet (and any weapon you might have). Thus, chi sao practice can become chi tek, chi dao, chi gun, or any other "chi-(weapon)" you decide to take up.

 

I realize that's slightly different from push hands, but I still find the idea of applying hand movements elsewhere to be super useful.

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

In the Wing Chun I was taught, a core principle was that everything you can do with your hands should also be able to be done with your feet (and any weapon you might have). Thus, chi sao practice can become chi tek, chi dao, chi gun, or any other "chi-(weapon)" you decide to take up.

 

I realize that's slightly different from push hands, but I still find the idea of applying hand movements elsewhere to be super useful.

 

 

Indeed !  While I am defending the lower part of my body against attack ( with my legs and feet ) my hands will indeed  be;  'elsewhere to be super useful' .