Disorientation after Meditation?

[Unota]

This is my first topic, so if I've made a mistake on where to put this, my apologies.

 

I meditate to relieve stress and to try to clear my head, because I have difficulty with an inner dialogue. My thoughts are so constant and noisy, I am incapable of singling them out. Meditation has helped me greatly with this.

 

However, lately, when I go out in the morning to meditate, I've had more and more difficulty in "coming out of it." Even loud noises don't seem to snap me back to reality. When I do finally lose my focus, (or lack-there-of?) I find myself really disoriented and confused. It takes me a moment to remember where I am, and it's hard to shake off the haziness. Even more, I'm surprised to find I've lost more and more time.

 

This morning, I lost an extra hour to it. While the moment is very nice, and I feel very relaxed afterwards, I do have daily work to do, if even not on a strict schedule. I find both the disorientation and loss of time a bit troublesome.

 

I wonder if maybe I am doing something wrong in the process itself, or if I am simply at fault for being unable to balance these things.

[silent thunder]

Have you tried Horse Stance?

[whocoulditbe?]

If that was happening to me, I'd want to find another person/other people to meditate alongside, so that we could keep each other in check and grounded. On the other hand, that might distract from the meditation, and you may find such a person hard to come if there aren't any dedicated groups in your community.

[Unota]

.

Edited February 29 by Unota

[Michael Sternbach]

1 hour ago, Unota said:

 

 

Ah, that must be what's happening! I'm having problems grounding myself. Unfortunately I think finding another person would be impossible, because I don't live in much of a community. I live in an agricultural zone, surrounded by expanses of farms and plains, and I'm unable to drive.

 

After looking into the 'Horse Stance,' this seems like a good idea. Putting strain on muscles will force me to keep some awareness...Whether I like this or not. I'm wrinkling my nose just at the thought of it.

 

Start comfortably with doing it for just half an hour and work up to three hours at a time. 

 

Make sure you stay really low during the whole session, any cheating will immediately negate all your effort. Best to do with a low ceiling right over your head.

 

(Note that I am pulling your leg.)

Edited August 14, 2023 by Michael Sternbach

[silent thunder]

Given where you live, perhaps another option would be setting up a garden to tend.  Gardening work is quite grounding as well as productive, yielding healthy food and time spent with hands in soil and good solid physical work, not to mention connecting mind in a more active manner.

[Unota]

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Given where you live, perhaps another option would be setting up a garden to tend.  Gardening work is quite grounding as well as productive, yielding healthy food and time spent with hands in soil and good solid physical work, not to mention connecting mind in a more active manner.

I actually do garden! Ahaha. I'm in the process of going through three eighteen-gallon buckets of green beans. I started doing this several years ago to deal with money problems, and now most of my food comes from it. A lot of it also goes to my family. I wanted to be more reliable to them, but I think they just want to kill me now because they're sick of eating green beans.

 

I also do a lot of cleaning, dishes, and sometimes manual work for a farmer who is a friend of the family, like hauling and stacking firewood. I've subconsciously sought out manual labor like this. It only helps in the moment, rather than a long-term solution, but... as long as I am doing manual tasks, it helps. Is this really okay?

[Apech]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:07 PM, Unota said:

This is my first topic, so if I've made a mistake on where to put this, my apologies.

 

I meditate to relieve stress and to try to clear my head, because I have difficulty with an inner dialogue. My thoughts are so constant and noisy, I am incapable of singling them out. Meditation has helped me greatly with this.

 

However, lately, when I go out in the morning to meditate, I've had more and more difficulty in "coming out of it." Even loud noises don't seem to snap me back to reality. When I do finally lose my focus, (or lack-there-of?) I find myself really disoriented and confused. It takes me a moment to remember where I am, and it's hard to shake off the haziness. Even more, I'm surprised to find I've lost more and more time.

 

This morning, I lost an extra hour to it. While the moment is very nice, and I feel very relaxed afterwards, I do have daily work to do, if even not on a strict schedule. I find both the disorientation and loss of time a bit troublesome.

 

I wonder if maybe I am doing something wrong in the process itself, or if I am simply at fault for being unable to balance these things.

 

 

Could you say what meditation you do?  What is the process?

[Unota]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

 

Could you say what meditation you do?  What is the process?

Oh...I should have mentioned that.

I sit in the 'seated buddha' zazen posture. Sometimes upright on my own, but sometimes I have a bit of back pain from yard work, so I lean against a red maple for some support. I do the white skeleton visualization, because I heard repeatedly that this is good for beginners, and also because of it's emphasis on focus. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to repeat the process due to copyrighted materials being prohibited in the rules, but I think you already know it.

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Unota said:

Oh...I should have mentioned that.

I sit in the 'seated buddha' zazen posture. Sometimes upright on my own, but sometimes I have a bit of back pain from yard work, so I lean against a red maple for some support. I do the white skeleton visualization, because I heard repeatedly that this is good for beginners, and also because of it's emphasis on focus. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to repeat the process due to copyrighted materials being prohibited in the rules, but I think you already know it.

 

I would suggest that perhaps your disassociation is influenced by this practice - why not try something basic like counting breaths.

 

 

[Daniel]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:07 AM, Unota said:

However, lately, when I go out in the morning to meditate, I've had more and more difficulty in "coming out of it."

 

"However lately" indicates that your practice was previously beneficial?

 

On 8/14/2023 at 10:07 AM, Unota said:

I'm surprised to find I've lost more and more time.

 

In the past when it was beneficial, the duration was less?  Much less?

 

On 8/14/2023 at 10:07 AM, Unota said:

Even loud noises don't seem to snap me back to reality.

 

"snap me back" indicates that that the meditation is ending harshly and abruptly? 

 

On 8/14/2023 at 10:07 AM, Unota said:

I wonder if maybe I am doing something wrong in the process itself, or if I am simply at fault for being unable to balance these things.

 

It doesn't sound like there is any "wrong" or "fault" with what you are doing.  But, I think you should listen to yourself.  If there is something "not-right" which is increasing, that is a signal that maybe a change is warranted.  However, I wonder if a small subtle change would be appropriate as a first step/triage?

 

Maybe fine tuning the duration of the meditation?  The trick will be to find a way to gently return to consciousness?  I know you've said that loud noises don't work, but perhaps a long gentle soothing alarm on your phone which gradually increases in volume would work?  My phone will do something like this for me with its built-in "clock" app.  But I am guessing that there are many many alarm apps out there designed for gently rousing the user if your phone doesn't have something built-in that is working for you.  I would be aiming for gentle, soft, and increasing in volume gradually.

 

Also, maybe, apply this gentle, soft, and increasing attitude to the duration limit?  If you are naturally meditating for an hour with some adverse reaction, maybe start out trying to limit it slightly to 55 minutes, and see how that feels.  Then maybe reduce it a little more the next day to 50 minutes.  Each day try to determine if the adverse reaction is diminishing, once it is diminished, continue experimenting to see if the benefit increases with further reductions in duration.  Little changes, changing just one thing at a time, will maybe fine tune the practice to acheive maximum benefit tailored to your own body, mind, and circumstances.

 

On 8/14/2023 at 12:00 PM, Unota said:

After looking into the 'Horse Stance,' this seems like a good idea. Putting strain on muscles will force me to keep some awareness...Whether I like this or not. I'm wrinkling my nose just at the thought of it.

 

"wrinkling my nose" indicates a bit of reluctance which I don't think should be ignored?  On the one hand, reluctance can be a signal of a weak point which should be shored up, but on the other hand it can be a signal of a practice which is not sympathetic to your own personal goals and dispostion making it less likely to be a sustainable addition.  Further, I read something interesting recently about horse stance.  Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit answers various questions about the horse stance.  Among the answers...

 

Zhan zhuang is therefore a very powerful form of chi kung exercise. Paradoxically, because it looks simple — and is simple — it is easy to make mistakes when one trains without proper supervision. Because there is only one form, if you make just one mistake, you are 100% out. Making mistakes in powerful chi kung training can lead to serious side-effects.

 

On the other hand, Ba Duan Jin or “Eight Pieces of Brocade” is a gentle form of chi kung. There are eight exercises and each exercise consists of a few movements. Hence, even if you make a few mistaken movements, you are only a few percent out, and the gentle nature of the exercises further minimizes their harmful effects.

 

The way you asked the question, suggests that you practice chi kung without a master's supervision. At 57 it is best for you to leave powerful exercise like zhan zhuang aside. Ba Duan Jin is an excellent set of exercise for you. You can have marvellous results if you practice Ba Duan Jin as chi kung, which is energy exercise; but even if you practice the set as gentle physical exercise, you still can have many benefits, such as loosening your joints and muscles, giving you balance and elegance, making you relaxed and improving your blood circulation.

 

https://shaolin.org/general-2/horse-stance.html

 

Also, horse-stance in a kung-fu context is going to be very different from zhan zhuang from a taiji-quan perspective.  But either way, if it doesn't appeal to you, maybe there is good reason for that.

 

If you have something that has been working for you in the past, perhaps a small change to this practice will return the benefits without the negative outcomes.  Then after that, maybe, adding something gentle to feed and nurture the body's movement would be good if it is appealing to you. 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Daniel

[Unota]

 

 

19 hours ago, Daniel said:

It doesn't sound like there is any "wrong" or "fault" with what you are doing.  But, I think you should listen to yourself.  If there is something "not-right" which is increasing, that is a signal that maybe a change is warranted.  However, I wonder if a small subtle change would be appropriate as a first step/triage?

After thinking about it a bit, I feel like I haven't been doing anything incorrect with the meditation itself, at least not for its purpose here. In fact, I think I've actually improved at it (good posture be damned,) as nothing actually feels wrong about what I am doing in and of itself. I am able to start the day with a clearer head than before and with no stress.

 

The "not-right" feeling is because I started doing this partly to escape stresses of each day. But they are still things I am obligated to doing, and I have to get them done for the sake of the people I live with. I rely a lot on others , and I owe it to them to make their lives easier wherever possible, so, even unintentionally, losing the time to do those things in favor of relieving my own stress and problems feels even more incredibly selfish.

 

Someone who wastes all of their time trying to find the energy and clarity to do things, and not having enough time leftover to do them is just a different category of doofus.

 

19 hours ago, Daniel said:

Maybe fine tuning the duration of the meditation?  The trick will be to find a way to gently return to consciousness?  I know you've said that loud noises don't work, but perhaps a long gentle soothing alarm on your phone which gradually increases in volume would work?  My phone will do something like this for me with its built-in "clock" app.  But I am guessing that there are many many alarm apps out there designed for gently rousing the user if your phone doesn't have something built-in that is working for you.  I would be aiming for gentle, soft, and increasing in volume gradually.

Finding an app like this is probably the best, and would solve both the disorientation and the duration problems. I likely would have come to this conclusion myself eventually, but I also wanted to know whether the disorientation feeling was normal or not.

 

I was also curious to hear what kind of input other users would provide, being new here and unfamiliar with people. You seem like a genuinely kind person who is wholeheartedly interested in helping others, and you gave me a lot of new things to think about.

[Taoist Texts]

14 minutes ago, Unota said:

solve both the disorientation and the duration problems.

interestingly these 'problems' are the signs of a solid progress

Edited August 16, 2023 by Taoist Texts

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

On 14/08/2023 at 6:07 PM, Unota said:

This is my first topic, so if I've made a mistake on where to put this, my apologies.

 

I meditate to relieve stress and to try to clear my head, because I have difficulty with an inner dialogue. My thoughts are so constant and noisy, I am incapable of singling them out. Meditation has helped me greatly with this.

 

However, lately, when I go out in the morning to meditate, I've had more and more difficulty in "coming out of it." Even loud noises don't seem to snap me back to reality. When I do finally lose my focus, (or lack-there-of?) I find myself really disoriented and confused. It takes me a moment to remember where I am, and it's hard to shake off the haziness. Even more, I'm surprised to find I've lost more and more time.

 

This morning, I lost an extra hour to it. While the moment is very nice, and I feel very relaxed afterwards, I do have daily work to do, if even not on a strict schedule. I find both the disorientation and loss of time a bit troublesome.

 

I wonder if maybe I am doing something wrong in the process itself, or if I am simply at fault for being unable to balance these things.

Do you have a teacher?

[salaam123]

I have a similar type of question. Why do I feel strange after three circle chi kung? Like im not myself and I have something extra. I did three circle standing chi kung for the first time since years, because of this. Still it happens.

[Unota]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:39 PM, Pak_Satrio said:

Do you have a teacher?

No, this is just a hobby. I'm also not sure where I would find one even if I wanted to. The closest high-populated area is nearly a two hour drive away, which seems unconventional. I've just been going off of books, and instructional videos.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, Unota said:

No, this is just a hobby. I'm also not sure where I would find one even if I wanted to. The closest high-populated area is nearly a two hour drive away, which seems unconventional. I've just been going off of books, and instructional videos.

There are plenty of good online ones if you want to learn properly

[Vajra Fist]

On 19/08/2023 at 7:36 PM, Unota said:

No, this is just a hobby. I'm also not sure where I would find one even if I wanted to. The closest high-populated area is nearly a two hour drive away, which seems unconventional. I've just been going off of books, and instructional videos.

 

If you're into Zen, then Tree Leaf Zendo, Zen Gateway, Zen Studies Society, Dosho Port, all offer excellent online sanghas, with dokusan (teacher consultation) and group sitting over zoom.

 

Alternatively, if you're more into the theravadan model, then Beth Upton offers regular dana-based coaching over Zoom.

 

It's important to have a teacher and practice within a lineage. It doesn't need to be super serious or to even meet regularly, but it's good to have someone who has seen through their own mind to take a look at you from time to time. Most times, they'll be able to see where you're stuck much better than you are. That speeds up your progress.

 

As others have mentioned, breath counting is probably the best entry point. This is because its important to develop stable awareness before moving onto any body scanning or insight practice.

 

Best of luck!