Stranger things

[liminal_luke]

Just now, old3bob said:

 

did you ever look into that particular shrink i suggested a long time back?  Btw there are several good FYI books on the potential dangers of what your present shrink is talking about!

 

I'm not remembering your recommendation so I guess I didn't --- sorry!  In any case, I've already ruled out ECT for my partner so at least I won't be going down that road.

[old3bob]

His name is Peter R. Breggin MD.  (can be found on the internet) with 40-50 something years experience starting back when these often dangerous  drugs first went mainstream.  There are countless nightmare stories of kids and adults being harmed by them often with trail and error methods, including over or mixed dosages!  Imo the MD's and companies that harmed or are now harming people should be sued to the hilt and then put in prison if found guilty.  

Edited February 7 by old3bob

[liminal_luke]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

His name is Peter R. Breggin MD.  (can be found on the internet) with 40-50 something years experience starting back when these often dangerous  drugs first went mainstream.  There are countless nightmare stories of kids and adults being harmed by them often with trail and error methods, including over or mixed dosages!  Imo the MD's and companies that harmed or are now harming people should be sued to the hilt and then put in prison if found guilty.  

 

Ah yes, I've heard of Dr. Breggin.  I have mixed feelings about the anti-psychiatry movement.  In general I'm a very alternative kind of guy and avoid mainstream medicine when I can.  I've no doubt that SSRI antidepressents are overprescribed.  And yet I find the insistence of some -- Dr. Kelly Brogan comes to mind -- that psych drugs should (almost) never be used to be naive.  If my partner was to simply stop taking his meds (or taper down slowly, whatever) disaster would quickly ensue.  Believe me, we've tried this.  Is it possible that there's some sort of natural therapy that would allow him to get off the drugs?  I'm still hopeful.  The keto diet comes to mind as a possibility, although it's not easy to stick to.  If there was a local doctor with experience treating schizophrenia holistically we'd go in a heartbeat.

 

Maybe we've been lucky.  All of Jose's psychiatrists (he's had several) have been caring people in my estimation, and seemed to want the best for him.  Psych drugs aren't perfect.  They often come with nasty side effects and don't work as well as a person would hope.  But by and large the people prescribing them want to be helpful and are doing their best.

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Ah yes, I've heard of Dr. Breggin.  I have mixed feelings about the anti-psychiatry movement.  In general I'm a very alternative kind of guy and avoid mainstream medicine when I can.  I've no doubt that SSRI antidepressents are overprescribed.  And yet I find the insistence of some -- Dr. Kelly Brogan comes to mind -- that psych drugs should (almost) never be used to be naive.  If my partner was to simply stop taking his meds (or taper down slowly, whatever) disaster would quickly ensue.  Believe me, we've tried this.  Is it possible that there's some sort of natural therapy that would allow him to get off the drugs?  I'm still hopeful.  The keto diet comes to mind as a possibility, although it's not easy to stick to.  If there was a local doctor with experience treating schizophrenia holistically we'd go in a heartbeat.

 

Maybe we've been lucky.  All of Jose's psychiatrists (he's had several) have been caring people in my estimation, and seemed to want the best for him.  Psych drugs aren't perfect.  They often come with nasty side effects and don't work as well as a person would hope.  But by and large the people prescribing them want to be helpful and are doing their best.

 

ok, but have you read some of Dr. Breggins books?  He is not 100% against some of the drugs or in all cases which can be extreme, although he is for close monitoring of anyone on them. (thus does not say as far as I know something like, "come back in a month or two and tell me how you are doing")  Btw I agree that many doctors are caring folks but that does not excuse them from or if they are part of a medically induced nightmare scenarios with their patients. 

Edited February 8 by old3bob

[Nungali]

What's wrong with a good old fashioned treppaning ?   It's been around since the neolithic .

 

 

 

This version involves cutting lines into the skull with a 'sharp' rock , weakening the area until a bit can be knocked out

 

 

I have assisted    during one  , a modern medical version,  done with a small electric drill , as an emergency remedy for 'coning'  (no, not pulling bongs , inter-cranial rise in pressure forcing brain stem down into top of spinal cord ) , in a hospital elevator .

 

A few people advocate for some type of either or  process  ;    Husband and wife  ; " We did it together after years of trouble and unhappiness , we dont fight at all any more and are now both very happy . "

 

Dont try this at home kids !

 

" In 1970, when she was 27, she had made a film of herself drilling a hole in her head. Some rock stars had viewed the film and become intrigued by trepanation (as I recall, I cannot find my notes from the meeting).

Feilding had continued getting trepanned since 1970. The bone and skin gradually grow back, closing the hole, she said, so you need to get re-drilled now and then. She could not get a British physician to trepan her, but she had found a doctor in Egypt willing to do the job.

I asked, as delicately as possible, if she had a hole in her head right now. She said she did. I asked if I could see her hole. She drew the hair back from her forehead. I spotted a small indentation in her skin, just under her hairline. "

 

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/can-a-hole-in-your-head-get-you-high/

 

'' Trepanation has been performed by people interested in enhancing mental power and well-being since the early 1960s. The pioneers and main proponents of the procedure are described here. The phenomenon appeared in Europe after a Dutch former medical student published a psychoactive drug-friendly scroll suggesting trepanation as a form of permanently increasing cerebral blood volume and function. He trepanned himself in 1965. Three of his friends became enthusiasts. They also submitted themselves to the procedure and published films and books describing their experiences. Two of them coauthored papers, in collaboration with Russian researchers, and created institutions to promote discussion on trepanation. One of these institutions organized trips to Central and South America to get the operation done. Dozens of people nowadays look for trepanation as a method of spiritualization and increasing well-being and mental power. The phenomenon has an uncertain future, however, as the main proponents and supporters are aging. "

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317354421_Evolving_story_Trepanation_and_self-trepanation_to_enhance_brain_function

 

[blue eyed snake]

there was a dutch guy that did this in 1965, Bart Huges.

 

strange thing is, after a particularly 'energetic' meditation I got a slight dent in my forehead, as if the connective tissue at that spot had melted. it has deepened quite a bit through the years and is now so deep that i guess skullthickness has thinned too.  It begins to look like his one.

 

I remember in my youth this guy was talked about as the summum of crazyness.

He died at the age of 70 in 2004

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 8 by blue eyed snake
typos

[Taomeow]

@Nungali It's not the same procedure -- when lobotomy is performed, trepanation is just a prelude to it, as is any other hole in the skull opened for access to the brain in brain surgeries.  What a hole in the skull which doesn't proceed to tamper with the brain does I wouldn't try to guess.  People have always done weird things to themselves and (which is much worse) to others.  I don't pretend to understand, e.g., the guy who spent 30 years of his life eating his car.  (He ground it into powder, bit by bit, and ate some every day.) 

 

There was a memorable Darren Aronofsky movie in the 90s, Pi, where the protagonist wound up drilling a hole in his skull.  I won't reveal the plot in case you want to watch it, but the reasons people in your account gave for doing something like that reminded me of that scene.  I didn't know someone was doing it in real life in modern times, I thought it was one of Aronofsky's proprietary dark fantasies.

[blue eyed snake]

19 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My partner's psychiatrist suggested that if Jose's current drug regimen doesn't work the next step would

 be electroconvulsive therapy, which he described as a "very good treatment."  Perhaps the doc is right.  I might be overly influenced by One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Next.  Still, I can't help but think that this is the modern version of a lobotomy.  (Fortunately it doesn't look like it will be necessary -- whew.)

 

glad to hear the current medical treatments are enough of a help that the idea is to stay on that course.

 

I've known a lady with un-treatable depression who, after long thinking and being in two minds, had consented to do that and was happy with the outcome. She was free of depression for half a year and the treatment itself was well performed and ( although she was scared of it) it turned out to be not more scary then the average medical treatment.  

 

after about half a year depression came back but at first only lightly and worsening through time. When I talked to her she had had 2 of these shocktherapies.

The depression was again deepening and she told me the idea that she could have another of those treatments was helpful. She felt that suicidal ideation was kept at bay by it, it had replaced in her head by: when I cannot handle it anymore i will do another of these electro treatments instead of: when it  gets worse I will suicide.

 

 

regarding psychoactive medications my point of view has always been, only when really needed, with thoughtful doctor who actively asks for feedback and tailors meds to the person.

In those cases where it is needed it can be so helpful, can make the difference between a livable life and hell, for both the patient and his or her loved ones.

The latter is something not everybody does understand. Big hug for Jose and you

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

What's wrong with a good old fashioned treppaning ?   It's been around since the neolithic .

 

whats wrong with lobotomy is taking a prettied up long nail, push it in the frontal cortex and move it around a bit.

Although at first they made a hole in the skull to do it, later they simply used the eye socket.

 

unruly kids or wife, just stir their frontal cortex a bit and they will become meek as little lambs. 

 

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

glad to hear the current medical treatments are enough of a help that the idea is to stay on that course.

 

I've known a lady with un-treatable depression who, after long thinking and being in two minds, had consented to do that and was happy with the outcome. She was free of depression for half a year and the treatment itself was well performed and ( although she was scared of it) it turned out to be not more scary then the average medical treatment.  

 

after about half a year depression came back but at first only lightly and worsening through time. When I talked to her she had had 2 of these shocktherapies.

The depression was again deepening and she told me the idea that she could have another of those treatments was helpful. She felt that suicidal ideation was kept at bay by it, it had replaced in her head by: when I cannot handle it anymore i will do another of these electro treatments instead of: when it  gets worse I will suicide.

 

 

regarding psychoactive medications my point of view has always been, only when really needed, with thoughtful doctor who actively asks for feedback and tailors meds to the person.

In those cases where it is needed it can be so helpful, can make the difference between a livable life and hell, for both the patient and his or her loved ones.

The latter is something not everybody does understand. Big hug for Jose and you

 

 

brain chemistry is not the same for everyone although there are general conditions/symptom's that can be observed....patients and doctors were not informed of such chemistry details for decades and to whatever degree even now?   There are FYI details that can be found that explain a lot of it,  thus getting closer to understanding what the hell is causing conditions and symptom's and then hopefully using more wholistic ways of returning brain chemistry to normal instead of just hammering brains with drugs.  Granted there are more extreme cases where properly and carefully used drugs may help but most 9 year kids and many adults sure in the hell don't need to be put on this stuff at a very high percentage of the time which then alters their brain chemistry even more sometimes causing worse conditions!.  Look at all the Vets that have been pumped up with who knows what and end up committing suicide, but of course such is hard to legally prove as being caused by or related to drugs so it just goes on in many cases!! 

(although some major lawsuits have been won along such lines)

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Taomeow said:

@Nungali It's not the same procedure -- when lobotomy is performed, trepanation is just a prelude to it, as is any other hole in the skull opened for access to the brain in brain surgeries.  What a hole in the skull which doesn't proceed to tamper with the brain does I wouldn't try to guess.  People have always done weird things to themselves and (which is much worse) to others.  I don't pretend to understand, e.g., the guy who spent 30 years of his life eating his car.  (He ground it into powder, bit by bit, and ate some every day.) 

 

There was a memorable Darren Aronofsky movie in the 90s, Pi, where the protagonist wound up drilling a hole in his skull.  I won't reveal the plot in case you want to watch it, but the reasons people in your account gave for doing something like that reminded me of that scene.  I didn't know someone was doing it in real life in modern times, I thought it was one of Aronofsky's proprietary dark fantasies.

 

Well, of course, I know it isnt the same procedure . One is called a lobotomy and the other a craniotomy .   I worked in medical for  10 years remember  ( and often in emergency  and intensive care situations )   . 

 

I was offering it as one of the related  "stranger things " .   Dont worry ... if I am  ever looking after you in hospital, in an emergency situation , and I have to  assist the doctor to drill through the top of the skull , I shall remind him of your distinction .

 

 

"Off the top of my head'    (    )  I can think of a few 'beneficial effects ' , it could release any built up inter-cranial / spinal fluid pressure , which means , the  spinal column could be released of excessive pressure  .  I am not sure what effects a pressurised  spinal column / brain  has , but I imagine the release of that  would bring ...... release of pressure .

 

Also it was used , supposedly ' to let  the bad spirits '   out .

 

(Ed ; I am talking about craniotomy here .  )

 

.

Edited February 8 by Nungali

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

whats wrong with lobotomy is taking a prettied up long nail, push it in the frontal cortex and move it around a bit.

Although at first they made a hole in the skull to do it, later they simply used the eye socket.

 

unruly kids or wife, just stir their frontal cortex a bit and they will become meek as little lambs. 

 

 

Thanks but you answered my question with an answer from a different procedure  .

[Taomeow]

On this day 46 years ago -- New England, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York.  The famous blizzard of 1977--78.          

 

 

 

I was entirely elsewhere, but those days were memorable -- I did a lot of skating, it was a record cold winter in our parts too, lots of snow, but public transportation worked, so, no big deal getting to the skating-rink.  An adequate wardrobe was all it took to be fine in any weather.  A pair of shearling-lined winter boots was a must, the rest was a no-brainer:  wool and fur -- no, not "layers" and not a down puffer and not Gore-tex (ask the innuits or the chukchi or the nenets).  Only when you went skating, you limited yourself to just one sweater or you'd get really hot in no time in that -28C (-18F) weather. 

 

Sometimes winters were very cold, sometimes not too cold.  Sometimes there was a lot of snow, and sometimes, very little or none at all.  The weather was always changing, and people who were old when I was young remembered more of the same: the weather always changing, and occasionally to an extraordinary extent.  There was always something memorable and extraordinary about the weather in their living memory.  Today though the media made a couple of generations believe that every weather change, and especially when it occasionally changes to an extraordinary extent, signifies impending doom which is their fault.  I've seen posts online from 20-somethings seriously contemplating suicide, or at the very least never having kids, a career, or a life "because of climate change."  Nothing to look forward to but doom and gloom.  

 

I anticipate all kinds of doom and gloom too, but from an entirely different dispenser.  

 

[liminal_luke]

23 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

         

I anticipate all kinds of doom and gloom too, but from an entirely different dispenser.  

 

 

Oh darn!  I suspect climate change would of been more fun.

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

I've seen posts online from 20-somethings seriously contemplating suicide, or at the very least never having kids, a career, or a life "because of climate change."  Nothing to look forward to but doom and gloom.  

 

Really?   They can move to a better location.  Humans have been migrating for a million years.  Technology can tackle things.  Or the climate change prediction is simply not accurate.

[blue eyed snake]

that winter was quite memorable here too, I went to visit a friend in the north of my country, for a weekend, we were snowed in for 2 months. In those days snow was normal in amounts from around 30 cm, just enough to have fun. But that year it looked like this

 

 

 

I was in the city and although there was only 1 toilet in the street still working and at a certain point there were some problems with food, there was enough but no variety so no problem really.

Those are sweet memories, some people say next winter will be very cold, so I will ask my dear neighbors to get me some more wood.

 

this  what the city looked like

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

That's an intense one blue eyed snake!

 

I recall winters as a young child with snow drifts regularly reaching the roof of our two story home.  The straight winds of the plains would hard pack one side of the house shut up tight for the season.

 

We used to dig out the second floor window of my bedroom and sled down from it

 

When you'd open the front door, the snow made a perfect molded negative of it.

 

Back then the snow would hit in late October, often making Halloween costumes irrelevant and we'd be in snow until late March when the thaw would hit.  That was the 70's.  By the late 80's snowfall began to noticeably decline and by the time I left Minnesota in 93... we were lucky if snow hung around for 3 days after a fall.  Many brown Solstice from about 89 on...

Edited February 14 by silent thunder
Big Viking Thumbs make phone spelling a challenge

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

On this day 46 years ago -- New England, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York.  The famous blizzard of 1977--78.          

 

 

 

I was entirely elsewhere, but those days were memorable -- I did a lot of skating, it was a record cold winter in our parts too, lots of snow, but public transportation worked, so, no big deal getting to the skating-rink.  An adequate wardrobe was all it took to be fine in any weather.  A pair of shearling-lined winter boots was a must, the rest was a no-brainer:  wool and fur -- no, not "layers" and not a down puffer and not Gore-tex (ask the innuits or the chukchi or the nenets).  Only when you went skating, you limited yourself to just one sweater or you'd get really hot in no time in that -28C (-18F) weather. 

 

Sometimes winters were very cold, sometimes not too cold.  Sometimes there was a lot of snow, and sometimes, very little or none at all.  The weather was always changing, and people who were old when I was young remembered more of the same: the weather always changing, and occasionally to an extraordinary extent.  There was always something memorable and extraordinary about the weather in their living memory.  Today though the media made a couple of generations believe that every weather change, and especially when it occasionally changes to an extraordinary extent, signifies impending doom which is their fault.  I've seen posts online from 20-somethings seriously contemplating suicide, or at the very least never having kids, a career, or a life "because of climate change."  Nothing to look forward to but doom and gloom.  

 

I anticipate all kinds of doom and gloom too, but from an entirely different dispenser.  

 

 

Our doom and gloom in the 70s  (aside from nuclear world war ) was  an impending 'big freeze ' . The we got smarmy when they  first bad ozone layer hole news got out - amazing !  We where going to freeze, but now, thanks to our recklessness this will stop it happening .

 

20 years back, I look out the window in winter and the front paddock is white and covered with frost , now that happens maybe  twice a year and its only a fine dusting .

 

However, regarding 'climate surprises' I remember the Euro history of this place records the biggest flood /  unusual climate event  back in 1950 ; a cyclone came down the coast  ( unusual for them to go this far )  in the middle of winter  (not cyclone season , not even any where near the wet season , winter is when it is dry here ) and parked itself off the coast and stayed there for weeks on end  (unusual , they usually dissipate or move on after a day or two )  .

 

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Really?   They can move to a better location.  Humans have been migrating for a million years.  Technology can tackle things.  Or the climate change prediction is simply not accurate.

 

Where are these better locations ? 

 

( and dont say Mars )

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, silent thunder said:

That's an intense one blue eyed snake!

 

I recall winters as a young child with snow drifts regularly reaching the roof of our two story home.  The straight winds of the plains would hard pack one side of the house shut up tight for the season.

 

We used to dig out the second floor window of my bedroom and sled down from it

 

When you'd open the front door, the snow made a perfect molded negative of it.

 

Back then the snow would hit in late October, often making Halloween costumes irrelevant and we'd be in snow until late March when the thaw would hit.  That was the 70's.  By the late 80's snowfall began to noticeably decline and by the time I left Minnesota in 93... we were lucky if snow hung around for 3 days after a fall.  Many brown Solstice from about 89 on...

 

... all totally alien to me !

 

What happens when all this snow melts ?    Lots of slushy mud  ? 

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

What happens when all this snow melts ?    Lots of slushy mud  ? 

 

Where I come from it depended on how it melted -- slow/steady vs. fast and furious vs. melt first, freeze over later, melt under the rain or sunlight or cloudy skies, etc..  If it was a fortuitous gradual process, the snow just slowly got porous, patchy, dirty, and the moisture  disappeared into the soil little by little.  Sometimes though it would melt some, then freeze over all over again and turn into precarious ice.  I remember one year in particular, in my 20s, when it happened while there was a whole lot of snow on the trees and then one morning all of it was ice -- the city all covered in shiny glass trees, every little branch was encased in a layer of transparent brilliance, and it stayed this way for weeks.  I think it was one of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen, but what was going on underfoot was disastrous.  A family friend who was a neurosurgeon reported a particularly heavy workload -- when people fall on something like this, the feet tend to slide forward and the part that hits the ground first is the back of the head.  And icicles several feet long hanging from the roofs-- those had a tendency to fall on people's heads too, sharp and heavy.  The city took care of removing them but apparently with less than 100% efficiency.        

 

Slushy mud seasons also happened of course.  You had to have a pair of indoor shoes where you worked, and typically, upon arriving, started the morning by washing your street boots.  And while for adults it was voluntary and merely prudent, schools had this as a strictly enforced policy -- no street footwear in school.  Stores sprinkled a generous layer of wood shavings on the floor every morning and swept them away, replacing with fresh ones, as the day progressed.     

[silent thunder]

Yea, the first few weeks of April is a true slush fest, at least in Minnesota.

On top of the snow melt you get the bone cracking Thunderstorms on top of it.

 

I miss those Thunderstorms dearly as the changing leaves of Fall...

 

When I get to retire... I'm resolved to heading back north to the old growth forests of Washington or perhaps BC.  They get four seasons there, but none of them are so extreme.

[Jenn]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

Where are these better locations ? 

 

( and dont say Mars )

Well, my hometown is supposed to become quite nice when "it all goes down".  Of course, currently, we can swing between extremes of +40c and -40c annually with 1-3 feet of snow per winter, so it might be worthwhile waiting until we're deep into climate change. 

 

Incidentally, we get colder than Mars at least a few nights per winter, so if that is what you fancy, might be cheaper to live out that dream here than trust your life on something elon musk built just to find out anything colder than -40c is deeply unpleasant.  

 

I remember one year we had snow so high we could ski over the fence.  In that spring we had a huge flood.

 

I'm with @silent thunder - BC Coast is the retirement plan.  I'll miss the summers, but man, to not be here for the winter... 🥰

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Where I come from it depended on how it melted -- slow/steady vs. fast and furious vs. melt first, freeze over later, melt under the rain or sunlight or cloudy skies, etc..  If it was a fortuitous gradual process, the snow just slowly got porous, patchy, dirty, and the moisture  disappeared into the soil little by little.  Sometimes though it would melt some, then freeze over all over again and turn into precarious ice.  I remember one year in particular, in my 20s, when it happened while there was a whole lot of snow on the trees and then one morning all of it was ice -- the city all covered in shiny glass trees, every little branch was encased in a layer of transparent brilliance, and it stayed this way for weeks. 

 

 

As a kid , reminds me of

 

 

For some reason , everything stars crystallizing   - the jewelled alligator seized my young imagination .

 

Here is how 'snow dumb' I was ; first time I saw any significant snow (on the roadside , going up a  mountain road in Tasmania ) I saw all this grainy white stuff so I stopped and got out  to check it out . Did a truck delivering bean bag filling loose its load ?   .... Hey this white  stuff is wet and cold !   I received curious looks from drivers passing by .

 

But your above description reminded me of a very similar experience I had of similar landscape , also the same time in Tasmania - they had a '1 in 20 year' blizzard that ended just before I arrived  and I was oblivious to it , thinking  the things I  encountered  where normal for there .  This was in a different zone- to the NE ,  a type of rainforest . I think it was an Antarctic beech forest , the ground was  a mass of gnarly  roots and mosses with myriad   little streams running braiding through it  from the excessive rain , but they where all solid frozen ice woven between the moss banks and roots . There was glossy ice on everything and near horizontal icicles . There was an understory of  tree ferns   and this was covered in glossy ice as well, its canopy was one sheet of joined domes but the small gaps between the fronds  where clear of ice , repeating in ice  the filigree of the fern fronds.  The sun was shining through the higher canopy in dappled light and refracting through the lower canopy in a multi-coloured kaleidoscope of light needles all around  .  I was amazed and stumbled through it . It was the closest I had ever come to getting lost in nature (I have a good 6th sense in that regard ) , but after a while I realised I had no idea which turns I had made nor where the road and car was  .  Magic ! 

 

So imagine what you described above  but covered over this type of landscape

 

 

Antarctic beech forest

 

Tree ferns under Antarctic beech

 

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

 

 

I think it was one of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen, but what was going on underfoot was disastrous.  A family friend who was a neurosurgeon reported a particularly heavy workload -- when people fall on something like this, the feet tend to slide forward and the part that hits the ground first is the back of the head.  And icicles several feet long hanging from the roofs-- those had a tendency to fall on people's heads too, sharp and heavy.  The city took care of removing them but apparently with less than 100% efficiency.        

 

Must be rad  to have that . I hit ice covered streets in Hobart early one morning (same 'after event ' ) , all covered in slippy ice and smooth . I realised why they had hand rails along the footpaths .  But then I had to cross a road , so no handrail , how to do that ? And the cross road was a steep down hill . I started to slide and got into a squat and used my hands  an d ended up getting there . Then I saw a very elderly lady attempting the same crossing .  She was rugged up in a big coat ,  thick hat, gloves and scarf  and clutching a big handbag  , this could go bad I thought .  She stepped out onto the road  / ice and methodically plonked along one foot after the other to the other side . Impressive !  Obviously an old Tassie local .

 

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Slushy mud seasons also happened of course.  You had to have a pair of indoor shoes where you worked, and typically, upon arriving, started the morning by washing your street boots.  And while for adults it was voluntary and merely prudent, schools had this as a strictly enforced policy -- no street footwear in school.  Stores sprinkled a generous layer of wood shavings on the floor every morning and swept them away, replacing with fresh ones, as the day progressed.     

 

 

Thanks for the memories . 

 

... and explanations . 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Jenn said:

Well, my hometown is supposed to become quite nice when "it all goes down".  Of course, currently, we can swing between extremes of +40c and -40c annually with 1-3 feet of snow per winter, so it might be worthwhile waiting until we're deep into climate change. 

 

Currently !   'I am not advocate of 'global weather  warming ' but  weather 'weird ing' , one effect of that is more extreme weather and greater extremes .   +40C here is HOT  and considered unusual  and it doesnt go below 0  (well not down in the valley , maybe rarely a few degrees lower up on the associated plateau ) .    Also we are supposed to be one of the better located places - like the tides , when we have a high tide, some places a few inches , others a few meters , the predictions show some places a lot more effected than others . On a variety of fronts .   I think another factor is  infrastructure already set up and expandable for various localised agriculture subsistence .  River transport and sailing might get more popular    .

 

... but dont tell anyone about this  or my location

 

 

3 hours ago, Jenn said:

 

Incidentally, we get colder than Mars at least a few nights per winter, so if that is what you fancy, might be cheaper to live out that dream here than trust your life on something elon musk built just to find out anything colder than -40c is deeply unpleasant.  

 

I remember one year we had snow so high we could ski over the fence.  In that spring we had a huge flood.

 

I'm with @silent thunder - BC Coast is the retirement plan.  I'll miss the summers, but man, to not be here for the winter... 🥰

 

I said  ... don't say Mars !  

 

You can also not say 'Elon Musk '  as well , thankyou .

 

 

 

 

 

[ NO WAY would I even consider that bullshit !     ]