Stranger things

[snowymountains]

56 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I've always known things that were impossible to know 

I've always heard voices ( as in, sometimes one hears a voice.) the information was often very useful, or sometimes information was just poured into me somehow

 

these voices were almost always benign, i never feared them, they just were, just as the grass, the trees( that spoke to me too when i listened ) the animals and the humans populating my world.  

 

I soon learned to keep my mouth shut about it,  for fear the grownups would call me crazy and lock me up in a nuthouse.

 

Looking back that was a very good decision of little BES 

 

This can also be something different BES, in isolation it also doesn't sound as sufficient grounds to remove civil rights and sorry if that was a potential danger for you.

Maybe this sounds odd but I can understand you. Someone close to me could use similar words for their experience and what you shared has value, as in this strictly personal relationship they tell me it's important they have someone to speak to about this.

 

It is common that a part of us e.g. reveals knowledge in dreams, without going into what this knowledge can look like when it's from our psyche, it can extend quite a bit further than what intuition says is possible, it is not of supernatural origin though.

Under some technicals it is also possible that the message comes as a hearing a voice during daytime, but let's leave the technicals out of the discussion, as nobody can know how relevant they'd be specifically for you.

 

But neither demons nor supernatural beings need to be involved in experiences like the one you describe.

 

Those folks though were explicitly looking for knowledge that is impossible to have, of course I don't know their definition of impossible but e.g. if I were to use their acid tests, I'd need to hear a clear description of something that only I knew and nobody else could had possibly known, it would need to be downright impossible, not just unlikely, for me to change my view.

 

In the one case I am aware of, it was simply the case that the experts were unaware of gossips, and considered such knowledge to be of supernatural origin, when instead of demons it was simple overhearing.

Edited May 2 by snowymountains

[blue eyed snake]

hm,

as a teen we had to cut up a worm and a frog to learn about their functioning. I told school I would not intentionally kill and cut up an animal, the worms and the frogs were part of me, of my world.

As an argument I used that we did not eat meat in our family and that killing an animal was counter to that.

 

It did cost me points, it also cost me baffled and angry teachers but I did not budge.

 

How can one think that by butchering a frog you can get to know its nature.

 

when I was a kid, this place was just around the corner, I remember how I used to catch toads there, part of my world.

Kill  them, for "scientific curiosity', to teach me something, no sir, i will not.

--

 

I don't care how other people rationalize their experiences with " the otherworld" , I will not do that anymore. 

Voices speak, sometimes through me, visions show themselves, telepathic connections can pop up, clear knowledge sometimes tells me things of the future.

 

it's all good, surfing the waves is better for me then counting the wave-crests

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by blue eyed snake
picture trouble

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Yes I think definition of terms is helpful.  Daimon, for instance, was not originally a malevolent entity but rather a form of deity - perhaps a minor deity and particularly a personal one - like one's genius for instance. 

 

A number of years ago someone gave me Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" as a gift, with apologies: "I know it's a children's book but I thought you might like it."  I did -- particularly the idea of dæmons as human souls which in Pullman's alternative reality were externally embodied as various animals...  rather appealing to someone who's always felt part feline.  (And the trilogy is part children's book, part very insightful look at society in the tradition of Orwell and Huxley, tackling its another underlying imperative -- the impulse to amputate children's souls.)  Reminded me of another book, or rather its title -- "Animals Make Us Human."

 

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

But more broadly the existence or not of non-embodied entities cannot be proved on disproved by science , since science takes a materialist view and does not credit existence on anything which is not formed from the mechanical/electrical interactions in matter. 

 

This wouldn't be a problem if "life sciences" didn't suck so bad at even the mechanical/electrical interactions -- and suck they do due to fragmentation into a zillion meaningless parts while missing what the world (and human beings) is really made of -- patterns.  That's why not only demons (most of which are indeed non-embodied, but some do possess actual physical bodies -- I could name names...) -- not only demons is something it misses, but even form-function patterns not limited to one particular organ, like classical Chinese medicine's "triple burner," or acupoints, or dantiens, to say nothing of qi.  (The existence of acupoints as electrical phenomena, by the way, was proved by researchers many times, but "our" science chose to simply ignore that research as though it doesn't exist.) 

 

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

 some do possess actual physical bodies -- I could name names... 

 

 

If you haven´t got anything nice to say about anybody come sit next to me.

 

- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

Edited May 2 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

On 5/2/2024 at 4:39 AM, S:C said:

How is it possible that ALL of you are so very sure of your empirical sense data perceptions and conceptualizations (while others are not)…. ???

 

Because some of us have ways to  test / discern  those things . Actually, that information and skill  should be well incorporated  before one  embarks on such explorations   ( speaking from the  viewpoint of western evocation )  .

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

The ones I have mind have very respectable credentials. Also in the only case I'm familiar with, they were just wrong.

 

Ok, forget the credentials then , what about the research and the comparative work ?

 

You seem 'stalwart' in not commenting on  (or even perhaps reading ? )   the empirical evidence .

 

Curious .

 

I think it's interesting that people with credentials take this view but for their view to become fact, they need to share evidence for peer review.

Eg nobody has provided evidence of someone knowing information that's impossible to know.

 

I dont see why ( or who  set up )  this 'test'  is now put forward as some type of golden rule to prove something or not .  Its actually the opposite . Thats not a 'demonic' test , it sounds more like a test for a psychic *

 

If you read the paper .... the 'demonic'  ( or 'bad order' voices  or 'hallucinations' ) often claim to have this ability of knowing what the  person could not know , but the researcher , after looking into it says they know nothing more than the person 'could have known '  eg, from their unconscious , from random passing info in their childhood / 'deep recesses' of their mind .  Whereas the 'higher' positive  voices or presences do not  do this .  So one of the 'demon tests ' is they TRY to claim this ability  but do not have it . That is,  they try to claim independent existence outside of the person they are afflicting . Whereas the idea behind INVOCATION  is the forces DO know more than the individual .

 

Still it's interesting. The reason I say it's interesting the following hypothetical scenario.

Hypothetically if the case that made them change view did know information that's not possible to know and the information was dirt on them/skeletons in the closet, then they wouldn't share privately nor submit evidence. 

So there's a catch 22 hypothetical scenario - no indication of something like this having taken place though.

 

Yes that is very hypothetical and I would not use that 'supposin'  in my examination of  the issue .

 

But , regarding info that is impossible to know :

*

Spoiler

I explained to some of the young women working here that I am psychic and I can tell them three things  about themselves that no one else could possibly know   ( and I hope this does not make me a 'demon' ) .

 

One tried it out ; " Sit opposite to me and hold my hand . ....   Your parents used to own a banana plantation in South America ."

Her ; (Surprised ) .... No .... never . "

 

" Oh well, maybe if I hold both your hands .....  You where once married to a tall black man and had two children to him ."

 

"  NO !   That never happened ! "

 

" Oh well  .... hold both hands and look deeply into my eyes .....    your favorite color is chartreuse ."

 

" What ? I dont even know what that color is ! "

 

" Oh well  ..... its been nice holding your hand though . "  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I've always known things that were impossible to know 

I've always heard voices ( as in, sometimes one hears a voice.) the information was often very useful, or sometimes information was just poured into me somehow

 

these voices were almost always benign, i never feared them, they just were, just as the grass, the trees( that spoke to me too when i listened ) the animals and the humans populating my world.  

 

I soon learned to keep my mouth shut about it,  for fear the grownups would call me crazy and lock me up in a nuthouse.

 

Looking back that was a very good decision of little BES 

 

and it didnt make you a demon at all .  

 

This is all about the good and bad forces that Dr Van Dusen ( from my linked article ) writes about . 

 

You where fortunate to have contact with 'forces of a good order' .  They can supply 'original information', after all , this is where 'inspiration' often comes from . Some are afflicted with forces of a bad order , that give false info masking it as true or mystical  and work against and or persecute the person instead of  being 'benign' .

 

Asd Apech said , these forces have been known about through all of human history and reality .

 

Its rather curious how this recent , mixed up, 'flash in the pan' , narrow year span , of the materialist / scientific / psychiatric  , current view is now considered 'reality' .  ... 'we are now right , and all people throughout all places and locations and times have been wrong  about it ... but not us .

 

yeah .... right   

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

A number of years ago someone gave me Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" as a gift, with apologies: "I know it's a children's book but I thought you might like it."  I did -- particularly the idea of dæmons as human souls which in Pullman's alternative reality were externally embodied as various animals...  rather appealing to someone who's always felt part feline.  (And the trilogy is part children's book, part very insightful look at society in the tradition of Orwell and Huxley, tackling its another underlying imperative -- the impulse to amputate children's souls.)  Reminded me of another book, or rather its title -- "Animals Make Us Human."

 

This reminds me of what my indigenous taught me about animal totems .  Also 'animals make us human ' : many indigenous here say that they learnt to do they things they do  to survive and live well , they learnt by copying various animals . And some of the indigenous  women  then humerously point to the emu ; okay then , see that emu looking after the chicks ? Thats the father .... mum lays eggs and takes off , Dad has to bring them up .... what about that then ?    ( Well, then it usually goers silent      )

 

 

This wouldn't be a problem if "life sciences" didn't suck so bad at even the mechanical/electrical interactions -- and suck they do due to fragmentation into a zillion meaningless parts while missing what the world (and human beings) is really made of -- patterns. 

 

Interesting .  I read about 'demon traps' once , many are like mazes , it said 'demons are fascinated by patterns , they will stare at them for ages trying to figure them out .

 

That's why not only demons (most of which are indeed non-embodied, but some do possess actual physical bodies -- I could name names...) -- not only demons is something it misses, but even form-function patterns not limited to one particular organ, like classical Chinese medicine's "triple burner," or acupoints, or dantiens, to say nothing of qi.  (The existence of acupoints as electrical phenomena, by the way, was proved by researchers many times, but "our" science chose to simply ignore that research as though it doesn't exist.) 

 

 

Edited May 2 by Nungali

[blue eyed snake]

13 minutes ago, Nungali said:

But , regarding info that is impossible to know :

 

that reminds me of the middle ages festivities we had at school, we all had to dress up for the occasion and had free choice what to dress up as. I was 9 or 10

 

So I transformed in a gypsy, with a crazy dress from one of my big sisters and a headscarf from mom. For atmosphere i took some candles from the kitchen and asked my brother for a bit of incense.

We build a tent of sorts and I was telling future and love and pregnancies... 

 

Friend of mine was standing before the tent and telling the public about the great fortunetelling lady residing in the tent, also gathering the coins, we had a good business.

( the whole setup was meant to raise money for the school)

 

and several times I heard voices from outside, that kid does know stuff, how does she do that   Fun that was.

 

(But other times there really is language coming out of my mouth that I was not planning to utter about information I was not aware of and that information has never been wrong. )

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

that reminds me of the middle ages festivities we had at school, we all had to dress up for the occasion and had free choice what to dress up as. I was 9 or 10

 

So I transformed in a gypsy, with a crazy dress from one of my big sisters and a headscarf from mom. For atmosphere i took some candles from the kitchen and asked my brother for a bit of incense.

We build a tent of sorts and I was telling future and love and pregnancies... 

 

Friend of mine was standing before the tent and telling the public about the great fortunetelling lady residing in the tent, also gathering the coins, we had a good business.

( the whole setup was meant to raise money for the school)

 

and several times I heard voices from outside, that kid does know stuff, how does she do that   Fun that was.

 

  my big sister did the same thing once !   Except she never heard voices , she had a women's magazine with an article on how to card read on her lap .  And that was for a Christian fund raising !

 

then later  we find out  ( and by then I had become an avid tarot card reader , christian parents where absolutely flummoxed as to why ????  ) that our so called Spanish 'contessa' grandmother  was not so great at all ... she was 'merely a gypsy and even had people around to read their cards '

 

Me:  " Whaaaaa ?  Why was I never told that before ?"

Mother ; " Why ?"

Me; " Well, you have all been baffled why I got into tarot reading ! "

Mother ; " Oh dont be ridiculous ! How could that have anything to do with it, you didnt even know about it ! "

 

(But other times there really is language coming out of my mouth that I was not planning to utter about information I was not aware of and that information has never been wrong. )

 

Lotto numbers please    (in a PM  ... I dont want to share it )    

 

Edited May 2 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

Gypsies, visionaries, fortune tellers... welcome to TDB

 

I have nothing like that in my own makeup -- to my knowledge, the only unusual ancestor I had was French, and the four generations that went before me were scientists.  Which may explain why I had to study taoist "spirit reading arts" like feng shui, bazi, the I Ching, etc. -- the taoist way to know what you're not supposed to know. 

You have to put me into a supernatural context for me to manifest supernatural feats...  but once I'm in, I'm in...  in for a penny, in for a pound.  As for "proof" -- some of those contexts could run circles around any which proof obtainable "objectively."  

 

Part of my ayahuasca adventures was dedicated to visits to the upper and lower worlds, and I met demons in both.  Many.  What made the experience particularly interesting was the fact that later, when I was out of the rain forest and back in civilization, I saw artistic depictions of exactly the places and some of the creatures I met.  The first one in Iquitos, the world capital of ayahuasca they call that city, so the internet cafe in the center of the city was adorned with paintings by the local ayahuasquero artists.  Well, visions are visions, artists are artists...  but one particular painting made me gasp and almost scream.  "I know this place!  I've been there!  I know these creatures!  I've seen them there!  And this one bit me on the arm!!!"  It was a place in the lower world, with its inhabitants, scenery, everything as I remembered it.  If I was thinking clearer (I still wasn't -- for about three weeks I was in and out of "Her Waves," as I called that in-between-worlds state), I'd inquire about the possibility of buying that painting.  Or at least finding out who the artist was...  

 

And then in Lima, I went to a museum dedicated to pre-Columbian art and saw a number of pieces there that depicted creatures and surroundings exactly from my visit to the upper world.  It was as though people who lived hundreds of years ago had visited the same place, not of this earth, under the same circumstances, met its inhabitants, and then left accounts of those visits in bas-reliefs and tapestries.  

 

 

 

 

[snowymountains]

8 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Part of my ayahuasca adventures was dedicated to visits to the upper and lower worlds, and I met demons in both.  Many.  What made the experience particularly interesting was the fact that later, when I was out of the rain forest and back in civilization, I saw artistic depictions of exactly the places and some of the creatures I met.  The first one in Iquitos, the world capital of ayahuasca they call that city, so the internet cafe in the center of the city was adorned with paintings by the local ayahuasquero artists.  Well, visions are visions, artists are artists...  but one particular painting made me gasp and almost scream.  "I know this place!  I've been there!  I know these creatures!  I've seen them there!  And this one bit me on the arm!!!"  It was a place in the lower world, with its inhabitants, scenery, everything as I remembered it.  If I was thinking clearer (I still wasn't -- for about three weeks I was in and out of "Her Waves," as I called that in-between-worlds state), I'd inquire about the possibility of buying that painting.  Or at least finding out who the artist was...  

 

People also draw similar maps for the lower world ( not identical though ) from their journeying, the question is if this archetypical information we all have in us or instead these are real places / what we perceive as spirits are parts of our psyche or something external.

 

Or to reframe, where would someone place the boundary for an experience to indicate something as external, given our own psyches have amazing resources we're not consciously aware of.

[blue eyed snake]

23 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

This can also be something different BES, in isolation it also doesn't sound as sufficient grounds to remove civil rights and sorry if that was a potential danger for you.

Maybe this sounds odd but I can understand you. Someone close to me could use similar words for their experience and what you shared has value, as in this strictly personal relationship they tell me it's important they have someone to speak to about this.

talk like this is exactly the reason why I closed my ( then 6 year old) mouth  about stuff like this. I am not interested whether you think it has " value" and I am quite sure you do not understand me.

 

At 6 of course  i was unaware of things like civil rights , but I did know that people who were deemed unfit to live in society were locked up in a nut house.

 

23 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

It is common that a part of us e.g. reveals knowledge in dreams, without going into what this knowledge can look like when it's from our psyche, it can extend quite a bit further than what intuition says is possible, it is not of supernatural origin though.

Under some technicals it is also possible that the message comes as a hearing a voice during daytime, but let's leave the technicals out of the discussion, as nobody can know how relevant they'd be specifically for you.

 

I've never called it supernatural, you do.

to me it is all natural

whether the fleshy humans and frogs or the voices and visions that are energy only

 

23 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

But neither demons nor supernatural beings need to be involved in experiences like the one you describe.

 

i did not mentions demons either

( but I have seen and been aware of...whatcha call it in English, small nature-beings)

 

23 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

Those folks though were explicitly looking for knowledge that is impossible to have, of course I don't know their definition of impossible but e.g. if I were to use their acid tests, I'd need to hear a clear description of something that only I knew and nobody else could had possibly known, it would need to be downright impossible, not just unlrationaliseikely, for me to change my view.

 

think of perspective, we're looking at the same tree, at my side there is piece of bark gone and some happy person has painted a rainbow on the smooth underlying wood. So I say: I see a rainbow.

 

you only see dreary bark and say, there cannot be a rainbow on the tree, for I do not see it.

 

23 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

In the one case I am aware of, it was simply the case that the experts were unaware of gossips, and considered such knowledge to be of supernatural origin, when instead of demons it was simple overhearing.

 

 

yes, those are the rationalizations, sometimes true, sometimes not.

But you're free to rationalize the experiences of other's

 

Until your own towers falls.

 

Spoiler

 

[Apech]

46 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

People also draw similar maps for the lower world ( not identical though ) from their journeying, the question is if this archetypical information we all have in us or instead these are real places / what we perceive as spirits are parts of our psyche or something external.

 

Or to reframe, where would someone place the boundary for an experience to indicate something as external, given our own psyches have amazing resources we're not consciously aware of.

 

From my own studies I know that ancient cultures (particularly the Egyptians) spent a lot of energy mapping the 'otherworld' and to do this they used what we might call cognitive mapping techniques.  They journeyed the 'otherowlrd' which they called the Dwat and used objects from everyday experience, trees, rivers, mountains and so on to describe it.  From this they made descriptions of the otherworld for use in bth funerary and living practice.  One of these was call Amduat or 'what is in the Dwat'.

 

Obviously these maps would not be identical to something produced by say, the Chinese or South American cultures because the terrain, flora and fauna would vary and so the images of the other world used in the cognitive mapping would be different.  As one would expect.  Having said that there are structural similarities in the world view in all these cultures because they inherit what is basically a 'shamanistic' - to use that term in its broadly developed sense - view which was probably shared by all humans from earliest times.

 

That these maps can be applied from person to person indicates they are beyond what would usually be called subjective or individual.  That they are effective and 'work' in terms of the processes of the soul means they are real - in the sense of effective.  That they can be communicated and understood makes them as or more dependable than the 'external' world (which is itself a kind of projection - or at least a creation of an interaction  between the observer and the observed).

 

If knowledge gained in otherworld journeys is applicable then it is valid.

[snowymountains]

33 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

Until your own towers falls.

 

Happened a few times, I rebuild it 😎

[snowymountains]

16 minutes ago, Apech said:

That these maps can be applied from person to person indicates they are beyond what would usually be called subjective or individual.  That they are effective and 'work' in terms of the processes of the soul means they are real - in the sense of effective.  That they can be communicated and understood makes them as or more dependable than the 'external' world (which is itself a kind of projection - or at least a creation of an interaction  between the observer and the observed).

 

If knowledge gained in otherworld journeys is applicable then it is valid.

 

( removed the above, really interesting though, I am not too familiar with the Egyptian practices and cosmology )

 

For the quoted part it's two cases/two possibilities.

 

One is static information that we all have at birth and overlaps, such is the postulation of the collective unconscious and perhaps epigenetics will provide an answer. In this case the worlds are not real as in realities parallel to this one, they are real as in genetically inherited information that we all have in us.

 

The other possibility is that the places are real and archetypes are not from our psyche but rather they link us with the said (real) places. This would be a full blown version of the Unus Mundus.

 

So the question becomes, given an experience, which of the two options it's more consistent with.

[Apech]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

( removed the above, really interesting though, I am not too familiar with the Egyptian practices and cosmology )

 

For the quoted part it's two cases/two possibilities.

 

One is static information that we all have at birth and overlaps, such is the postulation of the collective unconscious and perhaps epigenetics will provide an answer. In this case the worlds are not real as in realities parallel to this one, they are real as in genetically inherited information that we all have in us.

 

Was it Voltaire who said of the Holy Roman Empire - that it was neither Holy or Roman or an Empire?  I would say the same of the collective unconscious - it is an awful term and is neither collective or unconscious.   I agree that genetics is a fascinating study but at the end of the day it is just looking at the residue of long body memory.

 

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

The other possibility is that the places are real and archetypes are not from our psyche but rather they link us with the said (real) places. This would be a full blown version of the Unus Mundus.

 

So the question becomes, given an experience, which of the two options it's more consistent with.

 

First answer what 'real' means in this context.  For instance what is real is that which can be divided and put back together without losing its essential nature.   The answer would have to be something like consciousness or spirit itself.  In which case your Unus Mundus would be a world of intelligent energy (qi for example) and not of insensate matter.

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

Was it Voltaire who said of the Holy Roman Empire - that it was neither Holy or Roman or an Empire? 

yes he did, but only about the short 20 years of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_IV,_Holy_Roman_Emperor  at most, more likely only about his coronation circumstances, not the entire 1000 year old history of the HRE. (had to get that off my chest, had i )

3 hours ago, Apech said:

I would say the same of the collective unconscious - it is an awful term and is neither collective or unconscious. 

thats true. if it was unconscious we would not know if it is there. collective is wrong too, its just the humanity sharing  the same hardware which gives rise to the same archetypes 

[Apech]

13 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes he did, but only about the short 20 years of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_IV,_Holy_Roman_Emperor  at most, more likely only about his coronation circumstances, not the entire 1000 year old history of the HRE. (had to get that off my chest, had i )

thats true. if it was unconscious we would not know if it is there. collective is wrong too, its just the humanity sharing  the same hardware which gives rise to the same archetypes 

Thank you - interesting if a little pedantic

[blue eyed snake]

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

and it didnt make you a demon at all .  

 

This is all about the good and bad forces that Dr Van Dusen ( from my linked article ) writes about . 

 

You where fortunate to have contact with 'forces of a good order' .  They can supply 'original information', after all , this is where 'inspiration' often comes from . Some are afflicted with forces of a bad order , that give false info masking it as true or mystical  and work against and or persecute the person instead of  being 'benign' .

 

Asd Apech said , these forces have been known about through all of human history and reality .

 

Its rather curious how this recent , mixed up, 'flash in the pan' , narrow year span , of the materialist / scientific / psychiatric  , current view is now considered 'reality' .  ... 'we are now right , and all people throughout all places and locations and times have been wrong  about it ... but not us .

 

yeah .... right   

 

will print it and read, lately my brain does not work as it used to.

 

I think, as a kid I did not categorize in good and bad, I was not taught about it and I hardly ever met it. Meaning, the bad things were just not within my little circle of knowledge. I did not learn religion either, so the concepts of good and bad arrived quite late.

 

uhm, there was a big dog that I had to pass when going to that little lake. He scared me every time with loud barking,  but not bad- I was sorry for him as he was chained and locked away always. I was happy he could not reach me but sad he was locked up.

and there was a teacher I did not like (at all) but she was not bad, just not nice.

 

I mean, I was bad when i came home full of mud and forgot to remove my wellies but it was not a " heavy bad" it was just a child's bad.

 

when I was about 14 someone brought me to a young man, 20 I think and that shook me, there was something bad going on.

I sensed somehow his real person was overshadowed by someone else, what I now would call an entity or maybe a demon. I felt helpless but i spoke to him in a soothing voice and listened to his ramblings. I tried to imprint on him that his real persona was still there, that he would be allright, would come out of this and did the things I did when someone was in pain.

 

and only now the thought strikes me: so someone led you, a 14 year-old, to this raving babbling man, thinking you could do some good , would be able to help

 

Now, much older with some eddication behind my belt, i would dx probable psychosis, which does not rule out a demon or such. its just a different perspective and they can be true simultaneously.

But then I was shook to my core as there was something real bad going on.

 

later I heard he was brought to a psychiatric-ward. 

[blue eyed snake]

6 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

Happened a few times, I rebuild it 😎

 

ah, you are stubborn case,

your time will come

[blue eyed snake]

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

  my big sister did the same thing once !   Except she never heard voices , she had a women's magazine with an article on how to card read on her lap .  And that was for a Christian fund raising !

 

then later  we find out  ( and by then I had become an avid tarot card reader , christian parents where absolutely flummoxed as to why ????  ) that our so called Spanish 'contessa' grandmother  was not so great at all ... she was 'merely a gypsy and even had people around to read their cards '

 

Me:  " Whaaaaa ?  Why was I never told that before ?"

Mother ; " Why ?"

Me; " Well, you have all been baffled why I got into tarot reading ! "

Mother ; " Oh dont be ridiculous ! How could that have anything to do with it, you didnt even know about it ! "

 

I had a crystal ball ( of sorts  ), but not all that much later one of my big sisters introduced me to the cards.

 

Dad, can I borrow this one for the festivities tomorrow?

You be careful, do not break it

 

Spoiler

 

[Apech]

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

will print it and read, lately my brain does not work as it used to.

 

I think, as a kid I did not categorize in good and bad, I was not taught about it and I hardly ever met it. Meaning, the bad things were just not within my little circle of knowledge. I did not learn religion either, so the concepts of good and bad arrived quite late.

 

uhm, there was a big dog that I had to pass when going to that little lake. He scared me every time with loud barking,  but not bad- I was sorry for him as he was chained and locked away always. I was happy he could not reach me but sad he was locked up.

and there was a teacher I did not like (at all) but she was not bad, just not nice.

 

I mean, I was bad when i came home full of mud and forgot to remove my wellies but it was not a " heavy bad" it was just a child's bad.

 

when I was about 14 someone brought me to a young man, 20 I think and that shook me, there was something bad going on.

I sensed somehow his real person was overshadowed by someone else, what I now would call an entity or maybe a demon. I felt helpless but i spoke to him in a soothing voice and listened to his ramblings. I tried to imprint on him that his real persona was still there, that he would be allright, would come out of this and did the things I did when someone was in pain.

 

and only now the thought strikes me: so someone led you, a 14 year-old, to this raving babbling man, thinking you could do some good , would be able to help

 

Now, much older with some eddication behind my belt, i would dx probable psychosis, which does not rule out a demon or such. its just a different perspective and they can be true simultaneously.

But then I was shook to my core as there was something real bad going on.

 

later I heard he was brought to a psychiatric-ward. 

 
Why did they bring him to you?

[blue eyed snake]

8 minutes ago, Apech said:

Why did they bring him to you?

 

well... I guess it was known somewhat that i could heal people who hurt.

scenery - a bunch of hippie types, seventies

I do not remember that part too clearly, someone brought me to him asking me whether I could help

 

I remember kneeling at a mattress on the ground, looking at a drawn white face

i remember my anguish when I listened to his ravings, telling stories that were not fitting in the here and now, stories about things deep in the past. I remember how my heart went out to him, wanting to heal his pain.

 

It was my first encounter with big human pain, with real anguish, with something that exuded bad in large print.

to keep to the subject, with a demon 

[Nungali]

Here is a different strange thing .... after many months of no training , ( which I thought may be permanent ) I am off to a kobudo session this morn ,

 

I am very 'rusty' on it .... no idea what will happen   

 

toodle-loooo