Mistake in the Welcome section Insult reminder

[thelerner]

I notice whoever wrote this put down 'lifestyle choice' in both acceptable and not acceptable things to insult.  This makes me want to personally attack them.  I won't but wonder if a mod could clean up this paradox  . 

or maybe it's a not a paradox and put there to make us think

 

 

[whocoulditbe?]

It makes a distinction between "voicing disagreements" and "insulting," but internet conversation has always promoted a habit of using the latter as a means to the former.

[Nungali]

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Edited September 11, 2023 by Nungali

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, thelerner said:

I notice whoever wrote this put down 'lifestyle choice' in both acceptable and not acceptable things to insult.  This makes me want to personally attack them.  I won't but wonder if a mod could clean up this paradox  . 

or maybe it's a not a paradox and put there to make us think

 

I think it's perfect as written.  It's fine to disagree with a person's lifestyle choice but not to insult it, a great balance.  I frequently disagree with my own lifestyle choices and am trying to learn not to insult myself for making them.  The moderators don't live in my head, thankfully, or I'd have been banished for personal attacks long ago.

[Cobie]

The OP makes no sense to me. Is it supposed to be a joke? The rule is imo fine as it is.  
 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Cobie

[doc benway]

15 hours ago, thelerner said:

I notice whoever wrote this put down 'lifestyle choice' in both acceptable and not acceptable things to insult.  This makes me want to personally attack them.  I won't but wonder if a mod could clean up this paradox  . 

or maybe it's a not a paradox and put there to make us think

 

 

 

I don't see it as a paradox. 

It simply says you can disagree with others but not insult them, regarding lifestyle choices and other things. 

[Daniel]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:38 PM, Cobie said:

The OP makes no sense to me. Is it supposed to be a joke? The rule is imo fine as it is.  
 

 

 

Please see the fine print at the bottom of the OP.

 

On 9/8/2023 at 2:57 PM, thelerner said:

or maybe it's a not a paradox and put there to make us think

 

 

Edited November 4 by Daniel

[thelerner]

From the OP.

"..It's acceptable to voice disagreement with another member's opinion, technique, politics, approach, lifestyle choice, etc.  But no insulting (or links to attacks) of individuals, nationalities, genders, political preferences, lifestyle choices, etc..."

 

WWLZD, probably nothing.  I assume he wouldn't be spending alot of time on the board either.

 

Someone recently 'liked' the post and I re-read it for the first time in years.  I wondered about '..acceptable to voice disagreement.. lifestyle choices.  Followed by no insulting.. lifestyle choices.  

 

On the third hand, if I was still a mod I'd keep it the way it is.  We can voice disagreement over lifestyle choices but not insult over them.  Ie, the difference between 'I think that's wrong' and 'You're an idiot for doing that'.  So maybe there is no paradox, just politeness.  Syfy author Robert Heinlein wrote Politeness is the lubricant that keep civilization rolling**.

 

 

Recently I called someone here 'condescending', and that was wrong.  I did change it, but seems to me I should have written his posts come off as condescending.  ie I interpreted them as condescending, instead of declaring the person as condescending.  It's a small difference but less personal, less accusatory, maybe giving room for the person to think about how they phrased things, instead of reflexively attack.  

 

**actual ill memorized quote- Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by thelerner

[Cobie]

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Edited September 12, 2023 by Cobie

[doc benway]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:03 PM, thelerner said:

Recently I called someone here 'condescending', and that was wrong.  I did change it, but seems to me I should have written his posts come off as condescending.  ie I interpreted them as condescending, instead of declaring the person as condescending.  It's a small difference but less personal, less accusatory, maybe giving room for the person to think about how they phrased things, instead of reflexively attack.  

 

I find it is less threatening and confrontational to share with someone how their words make me feel, rather than saying they are this or that, or that their words were wrong or inappropriate.

[liminal_luke]

58 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I find it is less threatening and confrontational to share with someone how their words make me feel, rather than saying they are this or that, or that their words were wrong or inappropriate.

 

I like this a lot.  I think it works particularly well among people where there's an established sense of good will.  It's more challenging, at least for me, to do this with confrontational people on the forum because I sometimes think that people intend for me to feel bad (possibly a misperception on my part) and, well, I'd rather not let them know they succeeded.  That's a level of vulnerability that feels too much for me personally.

 

On the other hand, letting people know when they've said something that makes me feel good seems like it would always be a good move.

Edited September 11, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

On 9/10/2023 at 6:09 AM, Cobie said:

 

I totally agree. So far so good, worth giving a ‘like’ I thought.

 

And then the last sentence pops up.  Ha, ha. 

 

 

 

OKay  ...... I will deal with ALL of that  ....

 

Cobie style .

[Nungali]

On my history forum, its simple :   disagree or 'attack'  the opinion ... not the person posting it  .

 

" the information contained within in your post is rather stupid because ......  "   - close to the line .

 

" you are stupid because ....  "  - 3 day ban . 

[Cobie]

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

OKay  ...... I will deal with ALL of that  ....

 

Cobie style .

Great. And now I’ve deleted my post too. Delete and forget about it. 

[doc benway]

9 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I like this a lot.  I think it works particularly well among people where there's an established sense of good will.  It's more challenging, at least for me, to do this with confrontational people on the forum because I sometimes think that people intend for me to feel bad (possibly a misperception on my part) and, well, I'd rather not let them know they succeeded.  That's a level of vulnerability that feels too much for me personally.

 

On the other hand, letting people know when they've said something that makes me feel good seems like it would always be a good move.

 

I think that if people want you to feel bad they are actually addressing a part of themselves that is triggered. We only know our reactivity, our assumptions and expectations, you have little to do with it… a few dozen kilobytes is all. You’re the canoe, ……and the lake and the breeze and the rest of it of course. They need to work out their shit, you yours… often using each other to work on ourselves completely unaware. Awareness of it harnesses great power!

[Apech]

6 hours ago, steve said:

 

I think that if people want you to feel bad they are actually addressing a part of themselves that is triggered. We only know our reactivity, our assumptions and expectations, you have little to do with it… a few dozen kilobytes is all. You’re the canoe, ……and the lake and the breeze and the rest of it of course. They need to work out their shit, you yours… often using each other to work on ourselves completely unaware. Awareness of it harnesses great power!

 

I'm a canoe?  who knew?

[Cobie]

11 hours ago, steve said:

... if people want you to feel bad they are actually addressing a part of themselves that is triggered. ...

 

This I know to be true for me.

 

Quote

… a few dozen kilobytes is all. You’re the canoe, ……and the lake and the breeze and the rest of it of course. ...

 

 Well, you completely lost me there (scratching my head).

 

Quote

They need to work out their shit, you yours… often using each other to work on ourselves completely unaware. ...

 

True ime.

 

Quote

Awareness of it harnesses great power!

 

The power of being nothing special.  

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Cobie

[doc benway]

 

Quote

 

 Well, you completely lost me there (scratching my head).

 

 

Sorry...  I appreciate you pointing that out.

A few kilobytes refers to a few written symbols here setting someone on fire.

The canoe is an abstruse reference to Zhuangzi (the empty boat parable) and then I tacked on an affirmation of Dao's nondual nature.

 

 

[Cobie]

@steve thanks for explaining how you thought about it.  

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Cobie